Tim Wiltse-RCU

Well I got a package in the mail today from the lawyer for Lockheed Martin and it looks like I have to shut down my new website because it uses "Skunk Works" in the name. It states I can't use "Skunk Works" or phonetic equivalents of it. Being I am such a huge commercial threat to them I can't believe it took them a month to come after me! So I guess I too have to shut er' down and start over.

LAter,
Tim

mclintock

My Feedback: (3)

... just change it to crunkworks..

or pole-cat works

doe never mind

http://www.polecataero.com/

N925WB

My Feedback: (56)

That's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

A big fat phooey to Lockheed Martin!!![:@]

Sorry, Tim.

-Wayne

Raymond LeFlyr

My Feedback: (2)

Tim,

We here in beautiful downtown Smithfield (JCAC) had a similar situation about two years ago. The guy who is our current club President is also our webmaster. When he built our site he included a very nice graphic in one corner of the homepage (if that is the right term). It was only a matter of days until I got a phone call (I was President that year) from a lady who identified herself as a lawyer for a major model airplane hobby supplier whose name you would immediately recognize. It seems that the graphic was copyrighted (how anyone was supposed to know this eluded me then and now) and we were in violation of section #$%^&*( of the penal code and it had to be removed post haste or we would be subject to the loss of our first born child - for seven times seven generations - or something equally obscure and "legal" if not Biblical.

I apologized, called our web dude, and it was removed in a matter of hours. First thing the next day she called me and said they were glad that we had responded so quickly and that the head of the company had authorized her to send us one of their ARF trainers for free in appreciation for our having responded so quickly.

The ARF arrived at my home a week or so later. I was obliged to assemble it and provide a radio and engine. We decided to make it available to any club member via an auction. There were only two bidders; me and someone who later admitted (while laughing) that he was just trying to get the price up. I ended up buying my own stuff back for more than I had in it to begin with - essentially paying for the engine and radio twice.

I decided to made it available to members to fly as a backup or trainer and kept it hanging in the clubhouse for a year. No one ever used it. I eventually sold it either at Johnny's or BARKS - I forget which - for less than half what I had spent on it, not to mention my time and aggravation.

The moral of the story, Tim, I guess is that you should be glad that they are mad at you and didn't decide to do you a favor. Just be happy that you are obviously an innocent victim of some lawyers' gree - - - well, never mind.

In your case, I hope the 'notoriety' you achieve (and hopefully sympathetic business) will offset your aggravation. Good Luck!

BMatthews

Lots of references to such idiocy. The company that does the Roadkill series of designs had to change the name of their P-38 Lightning to something else.

Stuff like this makes these big outfits look like losers to us but the reasoning was that if they let the little folks get away with it there's a precidence set and bigger outfits can wade into the creek as well. But it has to make you shake your head at the idea of a WW2 design and name reference still being protected after all this time.

kingbee

I wonder if they'd object to "Wood***** Works" or "Mephitis mephitis Works".

Seriously though, a cease and desist letter from a heavy hitter like L/M is suitable for framing!

Cheers,
Dave

ptulmer

My Feedback: (5)

You HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING!!! The idea of copyrighting a word is outrageous to begin with. But what the **** does anodizing cox's have to do with their business? Tim, since your a wealthy man because of all the engines you've anodized, how 'bout fighting the good fight for the rest of us!

newtech

Before I rolled over I would do a little investigating. The mark SKUNK WORKS is probably registered as a trademark. They have to describe how it is used and if your use doesn't match the use they have it trademarked for then it isn't covered. I have the trademark for NEWTECH when used within the quality control software field. We have a construction company in town that is named NEWTECH Construction. Their use doesn't infringe on my trademark.

Lockheed has just about shut down kit manufacturers making kits of their copyrighted designs. Their legal department must have a lot of time on their hands. Go figure.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

I would bring this to the attention of the ACLU. The name, SKUNK WORKS has no intrinsic value. All it really is, is a sign on a building. How about a grammer change?" The skunk, works". There's a big difference between using a brand name, like P- 38 LIGHTNING and using the same name as a nick name for a building. There are lots of manufacturing facilities that have nick names for their buildings, does this mean those nick names can be monopolized too?

Rendegade

I wonder what would happen if you let them come after you.

Tell you what, I'll take the trading name and they can sue me.

They'll get nothing.

Silvaire

My Feedback: (50)

Tim,

I think that if I needed another hobby, I would call Lockheed Martins bluff on using the term "Skunk Works or phonetic equivalents of it". Back in the 1940's, Lockheed "appropriated" the term originally spelled "Skonk Works" from the then popular comic strip Lil' Abner. A little Google searching will get you the story. Just because someone threatens to sue you dose not make them any more right...

While on the subject, I do not see how Lockheed Martin (or any other military aircraft builder for that matter) can claim ownership of a name applied by a branch of the US military such as "P-38 Lightning", unless the MANUFACTURER originally named the airplane.

Sign me "Just another internet lawyer",

Arlen

flyinrog

My Feedback: (1)

I was wondering why you changed names anyway? just for the funofit?..It is crazy but Bruce is right, if you can do it anybody can jump on the bandwagon...I know there are motorcycle shops named skunkw(e,u,o)rks but they dont have websites...Rog

hfenn

Raymond LeFlyr wrote, "I ended up buying my own stuff back for more than I had in it to begin with - essentially paying for the engine and radio twice."

No good deed will go unpunished.

nouser

I'm no lawyer but this rivals the RIAA kiddy suing for mp3's. People who caved paid, people who kicked the lawyers off their door step won. I'd make Lockeed Martin buy your registration if it means so much to them, it's done all the time. I think it's an idol threat and very little else, and I wouldn't hesitate to get a lawyer. Or Change your registration name to little stinkers engine works. You can have my idea for the price of a .010, .020, and a sharp .049 or I'll sue if you use it!


Humor marches on........

ClemenTang

Just wondering which Raptor came first? L/M or T/T?

Clement

center of the universe

"The following is a non-exclusive list of registered trademarks, registered service marks, or trademarks or service marks of Lockheed Martin Corporation or its subsidiaries, in the United States and/or other countries or jurisdictions:

A (& DESIGN), A2100, ABOVE AND BEYOND, ACP, ACTRAVIS, AEGIS, AEROCRAFT, AEROCRAFT (& DESIGN), AEROSPACEWARRIOR, AIMPOINT (Stylized), AIR EXPRESS, ALAM, ALERT, ALTAIR, AMERICA'S SILENT HERO, AN/APG-67, AN/APS-145, ANALYTYX, ARGMatch, ARMY TACTICAL MISSILE SYSTEM, ARQUEST, ARQUEST (& DESIGN), ARROWHEAD, ATACMS, ATHENA, ATLAS, ATLAS (& DESIGN), ATLAS A (& DESIGN), ATLAS III, ATLAS V, AUP, AUTOGRAPHICS, B-24, BLACKBIRD, BLU-109, BLU-116, BSY-2, C-130, C-141, C-5, CASS, CAVP, CBREWS, CENTAUR, CHALLENGER MARINE, CHAPARRAL, CKEM, CODE ONE, COMPU-SCENE, COMSAT, COMSAT (& Design), COMSAT (DESIGN ONLY), COMSAT STAR, CONSTELLATION, CONSTITUTION, CSC SATELLITE (DESIGN ONLY), DEFINING MOMENTS, DFT, DISPLAY BROKER, DSMAC, EAGLE (DESIGN ONLY), EagleSpeed, EASISTAR, EDGE FACTORY, ELECTRA, EMBRACE SPACE, EMBRACE SPACE (& DESIGN), ERR, ESAR, ESTARS, E-SATCENTRAL, ETOC, eTOC (STYLIZED), ETRACK IT, EXAMINER 3DX, EXPLORER, F/A-22, F/A-22 RAPTOR, F-104, F-117, F-16, F-16 (Configuration), F-16 FIGHTING FALCON, F-22, F-35, F-35 JOINT STRIKE FIGHTER (Design Only), F-80, F-94, FalconSAR, FAST HULL, FASTRAK, FIGHTER ENTERPRISE (& DESIGN), FIGHTING FALCON, FIRST LOOK, FIRST SHOT, FIRST KILL, FLIGHT DECK, FORMTEK, FORMTEK ORION, FROM THE DEPTHS OF THE OCEANS TO THE FAR REACHES OF SPACE, FUTUREPOINT, GALAXY, GEOPROSECTOR, GLOBAL 21, GLOBAL ACCESS (& DESIGN), GLOBAL BUSINESS SOLUTIONS,GLOBAL SUPPLY CHAIN MANAGEMENT LMAP COUNCIL etc. (& DESIGN), GMLRS, HAVE LITE, HAWKEYE, HAWKEYE XR, HELLFIRE, HELLFIRE II, HERCULES, HI, HI GAIN, HI GAIN (& DESIGN), HI SEAS, HIGH MOBILITY ARTILLERY ROCKET SYSTEM, HIGH TIDE, HIMARS, HUDSON, IDAS/MATT, IEP-CAM, ILS, ILS (& DESIGN), ImageCoder, IMAGER, INTELLIGENT LIBRARY SYSTEM, INTERNATIONAL LAUNCH SERVICES, Inc., INVENTIT, INVENTIT (& Design), JASSM, JETSTAR, JOINT STRIKE FIGHTER, JSF, KELLY AVIATION CENTER, KELLY AVIATION CENTER, A LOCKHEED MARTIN AFFILIATE (& Design), L-1011, LANTIRN, LASER UT, LIBERATOR, LIGHT MOVER, LINCOCITY, LINE-OF-SIGHT ANTITANK, LINE-OF-SIGHT ANTITANK (STYLIZED), LINKOSITY, LINKOSITY (& DESIGN), LINKOSITY (DESIGN ONLY), LM PEOPLE, LMC, LMCO, LMC PROPERTIES, LM-STAR, LM-XPRESS, LOCAAS, LOCKHEED, LOCKHEED (& DESIGN), LOCKHEED MARTIN, LOCKHEED MARTIN (& DESIGN), LOCKHEED MARTIN CORPORATION, LOCKHEED MARTIN STAR (DESIGN ONLY), Lockheed Martin STARS Institute, Lockheed Martin STARS Institute (& Design), LODESTAR, LONGBOW, LONGBOW HELLFIRE, LOSAT, LUNAR PROSPECTOR, MA-25, MAIL CART SYSTEMS, mARS, MARS FLYING BOAT, MARTIN, MAXIPLAN, MAXIPURGE, MAXISORT, MAXISTAR, MAXISTAR ONSCHEDULE, METEOSTAR, METRIXWORKS METRICS MADE EASY (& DESIGN), METROGUARD, MEWSS PIP, MH-60R, MI-15, MICAD, MILLENNIUM DRIVER TRAINER SYSTEM, MILSTAR, MISSION SUCCESS, MISSION SYSTEMS, MLRS, MMSR, MOMENT OF TRUTH, MSTAR, MSTAR TECHNOLOGY, MTOC, MULTIPLE LAUNCH ROCKET SYSTEM, MULTIPLE LAUNCH ROCKET SYSTEM (STYLIZED), NEPTUNE, NETFIRES, NEW MEXICO CAPITAL NETWORK, NIGHTHAWK, NITE Hawk, NO HIGHER STANDARD, OCEAN 21, OMNISTAR, ORION, ORLANDO CENTRAL PARK, OUT HERE THERE ARE NO STOP SIGNS, P-2V, P-3, P-3 Orion, P-38 LIGHTNING, P-38J LIGHTNING, P-80, PAC-3, PAL (& DESIGN), PANTERA, PARTNERSHIPS MAKE A WORLD OF DIFFERENCE, PATHMAKER, PERFORMANCE BY THE HOUR, PGMM, PIBOX, PIRA, PLUG AND FIGHT, POLAR, POSTAL TECHNOLOGIES, INC., PREDATOR, PS-59, PSTAR, PTC, P-TEN, PTI, RADIANT MERCURY, RADIANT MERCURY (& Design), RADIANT TRUST, RADIANT TRUST (& DESIGN), RAINBOW, RAPTOR, RATE, RRPR, S-3, S-3B, SAFE, SATCENTER, SATELLITE CONTROL SYSTEM 21, SATS, SATURN, SEA SENTINEL, SEA TALON, SEASTAR, SENTRY OWL, SHIELD, SHOOTING STAR, SILENT KEYER, SILENT SENTRY, SIRIUS, SKUNK (DESIGN ONLY), SKUNK WORKS, SKYLINE, SKYTRACKER, SLICE, SMARTBRIDGE, SNAKE EYES, SnifferSTAR, SNIPER, SNIPER XR, SOE INSTITUTE, SOLUTION 21, SPACE BOY (DESIGN ONLY), SPEAR, SR-71, ST3000, STABILITE, STABILITE STAR (DESIGN ONLY), STARFIGHTER, STARFIRE, STARLIFTER, SttL, SUPER CONSTELLATION, SYNCHRONETICS, TACMS, TADS/PNVS, TALARIA, TBMCS, TEAM WIN-T, THAAD, THE FIGHTER ENTERPRISE (& DESIGN), THE FIGHTER ENTERPRISE (DESIGN ONLY), THE POWER TO LIFT A NATION, THE POWER TO LIFT THE WORLD, TITAN, TOPSCENE, TOUCH N' GO CALIBRATION,TPP (& Design), TRIDENT, U-2, UNITED SPACE ALLIANCE, UNITED WE SERVE, URET CCLD, USA (& DESIGN), V2 (squared-STYLIZED), VALIANT, VALIDIAN, VALIDIAN (& Design), VEGA HARPOON, VEGA VENTURA, VENTURE VISION, VENTURESTAR, VENTURESTAR EXPLOSION (DESIGN ONLY), VERS L'UNIVERS, VIEU STAR, VIKING, VISTA, VLA, VOUGHT, VTMIS, WCMD, WE BRING YOU THE WORLD, WE NEVER FORGET WHO WE'RE WORKING FOR, WELDALITE, X-35, XD, XR, ZIP SEAL, ZIP-STRIP

Configurations and designs of aircraft and spacecraft may also be registered trademarks or are trademarks of Lockheed Martin Corporation, including without limitation, the configuration of certain fighter aircraft such as the configuration of the F-16 FIGHTING FALCON, JOINT STRIKE FIGHTER, F/A-22, and P-38 LIGHTNING aircraft. "

I think our hobby is in trouble then

http://www.lockheedmartin.com/wms/fi...=0&ti=0&sc=400

ptulmer

My Feedback: (5)

Pantera is a car was by DeTomasa (ford). I'd like to see them pull this crap on Ford. Just one example of the inconsistancies in L/M's attempts to force others to conform. I hope Boeing and the other companies end up kicking their *** all over the place. They HAVE forgotten who they work for.

flying poodle

So all the Honda Nighthawk motorcycles out there are in danger of a lawsuit.

MerlinL14

You could always change it to "Microsoft Works". No forget it........people would never believe you again LOL

P-51B

My Feedback: (5)

http://www.hypercolorskunkworks.com

so they are claiming that the Hyper-colors Kunkworks is an infringement?

Rendegade

KUNK WORKS!

I love it.

I'll have one kunk please!

I can't beleive this.

Actually, Pantera is also the name of a heavy metal rock group. Then again they're not gonna pick on them as picking a fight with a record company is like picking a fight with microsoft.

So instead someone is making themeselves look better by attacking someone of no consequence.

What a crock.

meowy84

As a former law student I can tell you that essentially "(1)two or more similar trademarks can coexist as long as the LIKELYHOOD OF CONFUSION and LIKELIHOOD OF DILUTION is low and (2)your intent was not to steal the other company's GOOD WILL and profit as a result." Both of these "key terms" have to be satisfied before a ruling of infringement can be made. You are not attempting to steal Lockheed Martin's GOOD WILL by having the name SkunkWorks on or in your site. If you were a manufacturer of full size aircraft and you put the name SkunkWorks on your building too, then that would definitely be an infingment and the likelyhood of confusion between you and Lockheed Martin could be seen as having a high(er) probability. Furthermore you could be accused of attempting to dilute their trademark. Since your business is far removed from full size airplanes, your target audience is not corporations/governments who purchase/acquire full size airplanes and similar hardware the likelihood of confusion between you and Lockheed Martin is low and it follows that your aim was not to profit from Lockheed Martin's good will.

In other words, just like Flying Poodle mentioned: Why doesn't Lockheed try to sue Honda over the tradename Nighthawk? Because not too many people are likely to confuse a motorcycle with a plane. Similarly in your case.

Advice: Tell the Lockheed sharks to "go fly a kite" or "So sue me" or anything else that strikes your fancy. heh heh heh

meowy84

Oh yeah, one more thing that I wanted to mention is that SkunkWorks is not a particularly strong tradename. Ask 100 people what SkunkWorks means to them and you're likely to get a variety of answers. Motorcycle fans might mention their favorite shop while airplane fans might associate it with Lockheed Martin. Mention Coca Cola however and you'll get 100 out of the 100 people yelling out "soft drink"! That's because Coca Cola is an exceptionally strong, universally recognizable tradename/mark. If your website was www.TimsCocaColaCoxengines.com you're in trouble because even though engines have nothing to do with a soft drink the name has such strong SECONDARY MEANING that it might very well be seen that you were trying to use Coca Cola's good will for your own profit.

Bipe Flyer

Uh oh Tim, they have "SNIPER" trademarked too!

Bipe Flyer

Here are some interesting links regarding the term "Skunk Works".

http://encyclopedia.laborlawtalk.com/Skunk_works
http://home.wlu.edu/~blackmerh/mouff...kunkworks.html
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=skunkworks
http://www.lockheedmartin.co.uk/news/155.html

Read the sixth paragraph of the last link.