Aussie Damo

I got my AP.061 wasp about a week ago, i got it started and then shut it down as instructed, when i tried to restart it after letting it cool down i couldnt get it to start, i tried for about half an hour. i thought i t might have been the fuel i was useing since it was pretty old so i finally got some new fuel today and again tried to start it but i cant get it. ive checked that there are no leaks in the tank or fuel lines/joins, my glow plug battery is still at 1.35 Volts and like i mentioned earlier the motor and plug are only a week old. can someone help me here.
Damien

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

The 2 most basic things to check: 1. Remove the glow plug and look for a bright glow. Inspect the element for breaks and deformation. 2. Choke the carb, or plug the exhaust outlet, and briefly turn the motor over with a starter. you should see fuel drawn imediately into the carb. A third check is for tightness of the head, backplate, carb, etc. The engine should be securely fastened to flat and parallel mount beams, and turn over easily with the head removed. Finally, with the head on, the cylinder should retain a compression seal for at least a few seconds when the piston is brought up to TDC.

Aussie Damo

ok. 1)plug glows orange redish down to about half a coil from bottom, no breaks and deformation
2) fuel is drawn into carb straight away
3) head, backplate, carb secured
4) engine mounted fine
5) turns over easily with the head removed. with the head on the cylinder should retains compression seal when the piston is brought up to TDC.

i think the plug could be the problem any other ideas



edit for typo

flyinrog

My Feedback: (1)

an orange glow half way down the element is not enough it should glow very bright all the way up the coil,,that sounds like the problem to me...Rog

mclintock

My Feedback: (3)

If you are using a ni-cad glow battery, try charging it again, or lash up a glow plug driver using one or two fresh 'D' sized flashlight (torch) batteries- If two batteries, be sure to connect them in parallel, not series.

My thought is that the glow plug lights fine with your 1.35v cell when out of the engine and dry, but with a little fuel on it, it's posssibly snuffed out.

eroc144

My Feedback: (1)

Two things:

- My AP .61 needs a strong 1.5v for the glow plug so your 1.35v might not be enough - try 2 1.5v D batteries wired in parallel.
- Try opening the needle valve a 1/4 turn richer a few times. Sometimes my AP needs a slightly richer setting to get started then I lean out after it's going.

Keep us posted!

eroc

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

It has happened to me a few times, where a new engine contaminates the glow plug right after the first run or two. Aluminum particles can slough off and attach to the element, then that interferes with the chemical reaction that ignites the mixture. It happened most recently to me with a surestart engine.

Larry Driskill

I use a 2 volt lead gel cell for a glow plug battery.

2 volts will fry most plugs instantly if you don't have some resistance in the mix. I have a simple coil resistor in the line and a switch that allows me to chose either 1.5 or 2 volts.

We often stand up to start the engines on our planes and so we need a long lead to go from the pitbox to the plug. My lead is over 3 feet long and that long lead offers enough resistance to keep the 2 volt setting from blowing most plugs.

If you have a weak battery you might try a very short lead and see if you get a brighter glow.

lildiesel

Could the shutdown part of the running cycle have just been too quick? I'd have run rich for a time before killing it just to give the parts more time to cool a bit before stopping the engine. But, I'm terribly old fashioned.

PS: I'd go with higher nitro fuel as the prime for a restart attempt after thinking about what you said about the glow plug's heated color.

jetpack

My Feedback: (1)

I guess what I would have to ask is does the compression feel the same as it did when you first started it, if you flipped it by hand.

I know you mentioned it still holds compression good, but if you never changed the needle setting and was expecting it to be the same sometimes that doesnt work during break-in.

If it starts on a prime (needle closed with a shot of fuel down the carb), then look at the carb.

cyclops2

Most NO starts after a good start and running engine are ALMOST ALWAYS electrical.
If it ran before, you know it should restart with enough choke.
Check wire lead connections, buy pulling them hard enough at each end.
Check glow plug by putting a new one in.-----If it starts putting , chuck the old one!!!!!!!!!
Yours could be the Aluminum or Norvells Silicone contaminated glow plug syndrome??-----------------------------------------------------------Check the original even coil loops of the plug. They should still look like that.
If not---You are leaning the high speed needle way too much. THAT will definately twist and short the plug coils.
DO NOT OVER LEAN ANY ENGINE FOR ANY REASON.

Aussie Damo

thanks guys, i'll try what you suggested and get back to you

Aussie Damo

sorry about the wait, finally got around to try with a D battery, started right up after 3 flicks but cut out after 5 seconds and i havent got any longer than about 7 seconds. it doesnt sound likes it reving to hell and back before it cuts so do i have it to rich or what

thanks everybody for the tips.

ps. anyone who gets a new AP engine i would take it apart straight away and clean it after the stuff i found when i did (might be from shipping overseas though)

SGC

Damo,
To me it sounds like you have a blockage in the needle valve assy and its just running off prime.
Clean filtered fuel is a must with any small motor, as is anything used to handle/transfer the fuel.
Try cleaning out the spraybar assy by removeing the needle and flushing fuel through the spray bar.
Stewart

Aussie Damo

i have a filter on my line, also by the sound though its not like it run out of fuel but i will do as you suggested because whatever you guys say seems to work
Thanks

Damien

lildiesel

Next old trick. Can you start it and keep it running on the really rich side? If so, keep it running and lean it out ocassionally with quick returns to "rich" when it sags until it shows real signs of being broken in. Unless the fuel flow is really bad, that is one very tight cylinder/bore fit.

andrew b

Sounds like dirt/obstruction in the needle valve assy, just take the needle right out and blow thru the venturi with an airline, then give it a squirt of air thru where the needle screwed in, them give the needle a wipe with a clean tissue.

******************DONT DO THIS TO REEDIES***********************

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

It really helps to have a syringe to flush out and check fuel system trouble. Look into the glow element with magnification if your eyes aren't good, and inspect the winding for a break.

Aussie Damo

found some blockage in the venturi and blew it out last night, unable to test since at grandparents plac but will this afternoon

Aussie Damo

still with the same problem, im almost certain that it is the glow plug as it is getting worse (glow is duller and duller even with higher voltage battery, 1.5 instead of 1.3) let you know how it goes when i get a new plug

efish

My Feedback: (5)

Hi, I'm pretty new to this hobby, but I do have some experience with the AP Wasp. Broke in my second one last week and its been flying as good as the first with no problems. So, here's my 2 cents in case it helps you.

Would have guessed that you had an obstructed needle valve assembley, but seems that's been ruled out.

When my Wasps act as you describe, I'll usually over prime - up to where I can hear a slight squish when I turn the prop over slowly. If you connect the starter battery at this stage, you'll see smoke being scavenged out the muffler. I'll turn the prop slowly until I feel a slight jerk, or even better, a definite kick. (In the latter case, I know that everything's perfect and it'll start first flick.) Sometimes, if I'm sure it's not hydrolocked, I'll just proceed to the next step even if I don't feel a jerk.

Then I hook up the starter battery and flick the prop. If you've over primed, the engine should not start, but at least you'll hear a pop. If so, keeping flicking away and pretty soon, the engine will burst into life. If there's no pop, then its probably still flooded - a few quick flicks or just turning the prop over a dozen times will get it popping)

I used to try for the perfect prime (i.e. start on first flick). In time, my percentage increased, but on the field, when I just want to get in the air, I've often found it much much easier and quicker just to do the process described above. Incidentally, my first few attempts took as much an hour to get the engine going (newbie working alone!) but that soon became a matter of a few minutes.

btw, I start my Wasp with a homemade heater powered by a 1.2V AA NiMH battery - a full charge will last me more than a couple of days' flying easily. Think that extends my plug life a little. If you can feel the kick or hear the pop, then I think you're getting enough voltage and the plug is ok. Haven't had any probelms on either of my 2 Wasps.

Oh, and just after I got my second Wasp, I tried using a starter - it's even easier, and overpriming it slightly as described above will get the engine running almost on contact. I use a full size starter and just touch the cone to the prop - it doesn't grip very well and will slip if the engine is flooded, but otherwise, flicks the prop just enough to get things going quickly. A stick is still faster, but the starter is more consistently easy.

One last thing about the Wasp - I've found them to be pretty decent engines at a great price, but the QC is lousy - check every screw and fitting before sending it up in the air. Had to tighten the carb screws on my first one and my second needed the cracnkcase bolts tightened. In both cases, I experienced an air leak while breaking them in on the bench.

Oh, and if you're changing the glow plug, you could try the Norvel freedom plug - it will fit, but you'll have to change the head as well. Bought and test fited both onto my Wasp, but haven't tried running it with them yet. I think the quality and perhaps availibility of the Norvel product might be a little better.

Aussie Damo

thanks for all those tips, ill give it a try
same here, ive only had electrics in planes and my experience with i/c is with rc cars so this is my first glow in a plane

efish

My Feedback: (5)

Well, I got my first Wasp just a few months ago and these days, it barely takes me more than a minute to get it going so I think you'll be starting with no problems in no time!

Since then, I've played with OSs and Enyas and have to say that they are really MUCH easier to get going and tune; plus, you can finger start them without fear of getting nicked by the prop (cuz they are bigger). Especially the Enyas - seem almost impossible to flood. Don't know what plane you have, but over here, an OS 10LA costs just a little more than the AP Wasp.

nebg9

I got a used AP .15 engine just a little while ago but am having some difficulties starting it. I can get it to start for about 5 or 10 seconds just kind of putting, but cant get any throttle response. After it stops putting for the 5-10 seconds, i can't get it to do it again. I take a break, recharge my glow starter until my voltmeter reads 1.45 and it does the same putt-putt thing. After my unsuccessful attempts, the glow starter is down to about 1.3 volts. My guess is that my glow plug isnt getting hot enough. What could be some other problems/ solutions for starting this engine? What is the fuel adjustment knob supposed to be at? My guess was 2.5 turns but i really tried all over the place. I read about starting with some D batteries? Think that would work? The engine in somewhat difficult to turn over but i dont think that should be a very big problem. Could it be the cold up here in the northeast? Any ideas? Thanks

rlmadsen

My Feedback: (1)

A while back I ordered a Wasp with two APC 5.7x3 props . The mounting holes are far too large for the prop shaft making them useless . Did AP change the prop shaft on the Wasp ?