Tim Wiltse-RCU

Ok..maybe this subject has been hashed to death in other threads so if there is no interest then no biggie. Everyone knows I love my Cox..engines() that is! I will defend them till the day I take my last breath on this earth. But it's time for a fresh new start. I think alot of us thought Norvel was going to be the answer..I did...and look at them now. How long has it been since SIG has been saying parts are on the way? A couple years I think at least. Cox is long gone now..granted there will always be a good supply of reed valve .049 parts out there sometimes we might have to look for them though. Really it does only leave the AP Wasp .061 on the market as a general use sport engine. There is of course the Fora's, Cyclon's and Profi's on the highend racing engines. I know CP has said that his Fora just keeps on ticking and running strong. But at $140-$190 a pop they are alittle hard on the wallet for most of us..well me at least.
What do people want in a 1/2a engine...some want a throttle and muffler...some don't.....plain bearing is fine for most...others want ball bearings.....some want a sport engine others a hotter racier bullet. So basically it broken into two different camps. I fall into both.
I guess the meaning of this post is who would be game on going in together and working up something...sort of a co-op of sorts. I know a good number of us have machine tools as home or have them at work where they can use them without getting in trouble with the boss of course. Some guys have great CAD skills, others may know of supplly sources etc. As one person maybe we can't accomplish what we can if we collectively work as a team.
What can I bring to the table myself......

Design ideas
Small 3 axis CNC milling machine
7x10 lathe
Anodizing Shop
Would like to add a small chrome plating setup to my shop sometime soon!
LOTS of time
I know of a good source for aluminum stock at good prices



I have spent the last couple of days working up an engine design. It's in ruff form of course. My computer in the shop has a bug or something so the drawing I had on it I can't get to. So I just redrew something that has been in my head for a long time. I have thought that maybe the best bet would be to use as many off the shelf parts as I could for the "hard" parts i.e. the crank and cylinder/piston. This thinking was if I was only making an engine or three for myself. I was thinking to use Norvel .049 or .061 AME cylinder/piston sets...of course that is out of the question now with lack of Norvel parts. Really only leaves the AP Wasp .061 now. I have thought about the Fora or even Cyclon parts too. With the Fora and Cyclon sets I think it would result in a little "more" engine than what I myself am looking for. I am thinking of an engine that runs between a good Cox Black Widow and a good running Norvel .061 AME.
I spent Monday and Tuesday in the shop with the mill trying out some different things. I really believe that with alittle more tooling and after a couple jigs and mandrels are made that a barstock engine is very much do-able. It's very much a steep learning curve for me as I am just learning the programs to run the CNC on the mill. Everyday I am learning a better way to do something it's really a growing experience to say the least.
The attachment is what I have drwn up so far. It's sort of a cross between Wayne Trivin's 1/2a engines and the Shuriken 1/2a. This one is R.I.R.E(rear intake rear exhaust). Drum rotor venturi w/o throttle. No ball bearings but bronze bushings for a middle of the road set up. Looking at the drawing so far it's not hard to tell alot needs to be worked out still. I'll peck away at it as I go. I of course have the TurboCAD .dxf too if anyone would want to play with it.
So anywho that's it for now...as I am sure if anyone reads this they are ready to put a bullet in their head by now

Later,
Tim

RookiePilot

Count me in. I have Solidworks, Pro Engineer, Autocad, and Mastercam X. I can help with the modeling, CNC programming, and machining. I just cant help that much with engine design ( I am a complete newbie ). Let me know what I can do.

Reggie

soarrich

My Feedback: (98)

That's all! Sounds like all you need is a foundry to be the next Cox/Norvel. Wiltse 1/2A nice ring to it.

RookiePilot

A foundary is easy for casting aluminum. Check out these links.

[link]http://www.backyardmetalcasting.com/[/link]

I think with a group effort, it is very do able.

Reggie

Nightstalker

Glance to the future... "Wow that engine screams!!! What the heck is that thing?" (reply)... "Oh it's a new Wiltse...badest 1/2A engine obtainable".... How do you pronounce your last name Tim? is it Wiltsee" Or Wilts...?
I am a Manufacturing Engineer and do a pretty good impression of a tooling machinist (when I have to) at my work. Can hold my own with Cad work too, Auto Cad and Solid Works. I'll chime in if I got answers or suggestions. Seeing what you do with those purdy custom Surestarts, RR's, spinners, turbo heads etc. I am surprised you don't already offer "The Wiltse Screamer".

Todd

Tim Wiltse-RCU

Todd,

You got it right the first time...it's WiltsE...long "E". I guess it's some crazy German last name. Of course in German the "W" is a "V" so ViltsE sounds so much cooler! I keep trying to get my wife to let me say it with a "V" and all she does is rolls her eyes...go figure

I have never been one to use my last name as a name for a product. Maybe if I had a cool name like "Nelson" or something.

I don't know where to start on making cranks. The thought of lapping cylinder scares me to death.

LAter,
Tim

Nightstalker

I have to respectfully disagree Tim... "Wiltse Engines" sounds as cool or cooler than Webra even. Those ain't bad in the Classic Pattern arena. If a name like COX, or NORVEL etc., can do well (or used to), then a "Wiltse"... MAN... Let's work on this one... collectively... I'm excited. Just took a cold shower and checked to see if I didn't accidentally double up on my Viagra last night...err... this morning [8D]

Todd

RookiePilot

If this project isnt completed and Tim isnt a millionaire by july, I will have a rapid prototype machine to utilize.

Toad

Nice looking litle engine.
You will find that you will need some very precise machines to hold the tolerences needed in a production run. and machines equally as high quality to build proto types on.
High end screw machine shops can be found for alot of the work needed to build a small engine, there are shops also that have high end 5 axis milling machines, production work can be farmed out is my point.
Finding a skilled manual machinist to prototype build will be your best asset. Hardinge tool lathes and good tooling with it, a good 3 axis controlled mill and good heat treat ovens, and a good OD/ID grinder and a skilled hand on a good hone.
The right people or person can make the engine and then it can be farmed out into production so the chineese can copy it if you dont use one of the mfg's over there. I used to get all excited about bringing a new 1/2a to the market. Since then, I have decided to just make my own engines with help if I have too. Sad but true, it would hurt bad to get my baby copied.
I have good equipment, good tooling and have made alot of precision parts, I have the skills, just not the money to lose chasing a production dream. I would however be elated to help anyone build their own design or parts. It is a unique hobby. fun to design something and have it run well. Let me know if I can help in any way on a small basis.

rainedave

My Feedback: (1)

Not only do I think this project is brilliant, I think it's totally doable today. Ten years ago the idea of home cnc was unimaginable. And it would probably be possible to divide the production up among two or three people who have the machines. One person could invest in the tooling to make one component, and so on.

One good thing about it, as Tim touched on, is that the engine doesn't have to be a Nelson, a Cyclon or a Fora. A solid, strong running sport engine in the proximity of Norvel performance is what most of us 1/2a'ers use and need, anyway. So, hundreds of R&D hours spent to squeeze out every last rpm wouldn't be necessary. Just make it solid and long lasting.

I hope this project becomes a reality.

Nightstalker

Solid, longlasting... and readily AVAILABLE... (there goes that Wood thing again... BOIIIING!!!... no offense Dave ... and I'm runnin' outta cold water).

Let's focus on design intent and realistic manufactureability.

Todd

gws1

My Feedback: (13)

The looks of the Viper kinda reminds me of the Shuriken from yesteryear. A always thought the Shuriken looked great!
It looks too good to just be a sport engine!
Maybe an engine man like Larry Renger will chime in with some first hand knowledge of what is needed, or weak points to watch out for.
Eagerly watching.
Greg

Tim Wiltse-RCU

I too always thought the Shuriken looked killer just sitting still. A few years ago I found [link=http://nclra.org/WayneTrivin/HalfAEngine.html]Wayne Trivin's website[/link]. I had exchanged a few emails with Wayne before he passed away back in 05'. His engines look some what like the Shurikens or maybe the Shurikens look like his. I believe it says somewhere on his site that the mill he used was a converted Bridgeport.

LAter,
Tim

rainedave

My Feedback: (1)

In my opinion, this is something to seriously consider incorporating into the the design. They are only $15 and readily available:

http://www.hobbypeople.net/gallery/212152.asp

I think cp got a big boost in performance simply by enlarging the opening in the barrel.

Toad

the mill I use is a bridgeport clone, it is new but has a rather expensive 3 axis controller by Acurite on it. it does beautifull work
It is a clone of what Wayne used, he used the local trade school's equipment. the ez-trak or acurite controlled knee mills are very popular in toolling shops and schools because of capibility and accuracy.

http://www.toadsrc.com/shop.htm Having a precise vise with ground surfaces and no nicks on the hard jaws is a must.

Nightstalker

Hey CP... wake up!!! Doubt he's sleepin'... Probably building yet a'nudder slow and docile delta...[8D] Bet he chimes in soon though...

Toad - I can't believe you can work in such a harsh, filthy, under-equiped environment. Clone Bridgeport??? Kruddy Kurt Vise???... Accurite???. I thought you new what you were doing

Looks good (drooooool)

Todd

Toad

I told the boss I needed to upgrade the equipment, She wasnt listening to well last night, something about the cost of the new lathe I have to have. lol
I do need to sweep up more often. got new lights though!

Nightstalker

Are you hiring??? Lights or no lights... I can run a broom to exacting tolorances... What kinda lathe are you gonna get?

Todd

Toad

Actually, I work as a tool maker for another company and I do piece work on my mill at home on the side, mostly tooling for a robotics company. and I rework model engines for a few folk and myself. I plan on two lathe purchases, One is a Hardinge tool room lathe, and the other is a combination manual /cnc lathe called a Romi. they used to make the Ez-path lathe for Bridgeport, now they market it by themselves. It is a toolmakers cnc with a fanuc controller that you can use manually if needed. It is expensive and very capable and holds very tight tolerances through out the day if the temp is controlled in the room. very repeatable. Here is the link for the Romi http://romiusa.com/m17.htm

peterburford

Maybe as a low volume, cooperative venture?
It would be a great project!
The first hurdle is the capital investment and then the time.

We know that an engine can be made using only a hobby lathe, or all the way through to a 'GM-like' manufacturing operation.
To make a good engine ( as Toad has said ) you will need at least good basic machines of several disciplines and good skills.
I was fortunate in being able to rebuild some of my machines and to build all my tooling. I kept my cash outlay to (probably?) less than A$300,000.00.
I took a day or two though.

Let me take a guess. Now that I am ( again) established, as a contract, I could make your engine for, say, $50,000.00 and 12 months for the first 10 and then $25,000.00 and 6 months per 100 after that. This is a low, and really non-commercial figure but it will give some idea of the work involved.
Even in moderate production, a 'good' engine must sell for at least one half of a skilled tradesman's wage to be viable. ( say 5,000 engines per year at $400 = $2,000,000.00 and that certainly would not go far. Though come to think of it, put that on the table and I would give it my best shot )

But, if you don't count your time, call in some favours, use TAFE equipment, --- ?
A group project to keep up the enthusiasm, ---
It WOULD be a whole heap of fun.

Peter

Toad

I think a rear rotor valve 1/2a would be fun to build. It would be easier than dealing with the crank porting I would think.
I really like the looks of this design by Tim. It allows a way to really make a good ole college effort at balancing out the thing, I am betting with a little thinking and work, you could get this thing running with very little shake, and it would for sure help the engine last a very long time.
This is a great project for a group of friends to attemp. You boys may even get published in the AMA rag if ya are successfull
Get the case built, build 10 of em, then decide on the guts (ABC?) build 10 sets then ya all can meet at rogs funfly next yr and break em!
Good fun I think

skaliwag

My Feedback: (1)

Tim...Could the AP carb be Fitted to it?

ptulmer

My Feedback: (5)

Hey, I'm in! I've got a 9x20 lathe that I can bring to the table. That makes some of you guys giggle, don't it?

ptulmer

My Feedback: (5)

I like the rear intake. You could make a reedie backplate, too.

Can I make a suggestion Tim? I know you're making your paycheck in your shop now, so how 'bout a kit of parts that would eliminate the need for a mill?

It might be easier to go with a design closer to Joe's. If the crankcase could be made entirely on a lathe, you could eliminate some headache. (unless you like the kit 'o parts idea. Your crankcase is much cooler looking!)

http://www.geocities.com/joby1967200...-1/NGEZ-1.html

gws1

My Feedback: (13)

How about using the turbo plug for this hotrod? There have been several threads here about mods to use them for the Cox/Norvel/AP engines. Would like to see something easily available used.

Here is a picture of the Shuriken: http://www.gregorie.org/freeflight/f.../shuriken.html
I really like the rear rotor idea. I would bet an AP carb could easily be adapted to it.

I used to have a bookmark to a site that showed the CNC process of making a crankcase. I can't seem to find it now, but will continue to look for it.