Go Back  RCU Forums > RC Airplanes > "1/2 A" & "1/8 A" airplanes
Reload this Page >

Guillow's #303 Piper Super Cub 95 Build

Notices
"1/2 A" & "1/8 A" airplanes These are the small ones...more popular now than ever.

Guillow's #303 Piper Super Cub 95 Build

Old 01-04-2008, 12:32 PM
  #26  
fritzke
My Feedback: (1)
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Crystal, MN
Posts: 1,294
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Guillow's #303 Piper Super Cub 95 Build

I think this is the Guillows kit to convert to R/C if you just gotta' do it:
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXK595&P=7
The 36" Span Cessna Skyhawk
Dave
Old 01-04-2008, 12:59 PM
  #27  
combatpigg
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
 
combatpigg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: arlington, WA
Posts: 20,388
Received 26 Likes on 24 Posts
Default RE: Guillow's #303 Piper Super Cub 95 Build

Hi Slim, nice project! I agree that this plane will fly OK with RC gear, it should weigh less than 10 ozs to be a great flyer. A couple of tips for dealing with Guillows kits:

metal and emory fingernail files are good for detailing those notches and getting the parts to line up. A piece of spar wood with a strip of sandpaper glued to it works nice in the spar notches. The other tip is to sand the sheets of parts on both sides with 120 before breaking the pieces out. I can see that you already got those parts out OK though

It is not possible to stress enough how little glue is needed to match the strength of the design. Once the plane is covered with a lightweight covering, you will be amazed by how strong it is.

Thin balsa stringers, spars and longerons are too brittle for normal handling, it is no sweat to change them out to spruce or basswood
Old 01-04-2008, 03:24 PM
  #28  
slim_pkns
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
slim_pkns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Richmond, TX
Posts: 155
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Guillow's #303 Piper Super Cub 95 Build

Thanks for all the encouragement everyone! I think it would be really cool to make this R/C. I think it would have to be 4-channel though. Keep this model together on landing probably means near perfect touchdowns. This is a good time to start preparing whichever I choose. Here are a few thought I have so far concerning R/C:

1. I haven't built a model like this in a long, long time and I can already see that it isn't going as well as I would like.
2. I haven't been building light. Maybe not as big an issue as I think but...
3. I don't really want to deviate much from the plans for this one and I really don't want to change the parts to another wood. I'm getting confused by all the posts about keeping it light but changing to basswood, spruce, or ply. Aren't they all much heavier?
4. What servos would I use? Should I use the GWS flight pack? Hitech HS-55 or HS5-55 ( I forget which they are called )?
5. Maybe I should purchase a digital scale.
6. I've drawn some dashed lines to define where I might add aileron, elevator, rudder. Doesn't look too difficult to add. Aileron would be most difficult of the three. I'm thinking I could just sand down a solid balsa piece to tapper off at the trailing edge instead of building up with the tips of the spars and the original trailing edge pieces.
7. I have plenty of radio equipment but battery and ESC kind of concern me if I'm try to stay light. BMatthews has a point about that earlier and I agree.
8. This model is not worth putting $100.00 into. I prefer biplanes and sesquiplanes and I have a Great Planes Fokker D.V-11 to finish!
9. Hmmmm....
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Bz79493.jpg
Views:	97
Size:	52.5 KB
ID:	842098   Click image for larger version

Name:	Bw71699.jpg
Views:	101
Size:	43.0 KB
ID:	842099  
Old 01-04-2008, 06:47 PM
  #29  
buzzard bait
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ithaca, NY
Posts: 3,286
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default RE: Guillow's #303 Piper Super Cub 95 Build

Slim, don't try to complicate this with ailerons--keep it simple. Use the dihedral shown on the plans and there will be no need for ailerons.

For servos, HS-55s seem big to me for such a small plane. Maybe others can direct you to something more appropriate. Jim
Old 01-04-2008, 07:57 PM
  #30  
combatpigg
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
 
combatpigg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: arlington, WA
Posts: 20,388
Received 26 Likes on 24 Posts
Default RE: Guillow's #303 Piper Super Cub 95 Build

The best chance for success will be with just rudder and elevator, leave the 4 channel stuff for the "gurus" who want the extra challenge and weight.

The difference in weight between spruce spars and balsa [for the overall weight of the model] is negligible compared with the added strength. Really tough, hard balsa might work OK, if you're a good judge of wood then have at it.

The real weight gain / savings comes from your choice of covering technique, hardware, and onboard equipment. The easy way is usually the heavy way. If this stuff was too easy, alot of us wouldn't do it, we'd just fly ARF .40 trainers

Landing gear for a model this size and weight will only hurt performance and make landings more of an adventure..

Old 01-04-2008, 11:28 PM
  #31  
frednjess
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: La Vista, NE
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Guillow's #303 Piper Super Cub 95 Build

Hey Slim, going with the RC route...here's what I would do. Replace one of the balsa wing spars with spruce. This should be plenty strong for anything you'll put her through. Fly the plane on 3 channel, rudder and elevator. Ailerons will only add weight and I doubt you'll be doing inverted passes with this one. Here's the flight package I'd use and the associated links.

Motor: $12.50 http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...idProduct=5358
ESC: $15.15 http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...idProduct=4204
Servos: (2)$3.49 http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...?idProduct=663
Battery: $7.75 http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...idProduct=5479

Totals up around $42.00 plus about $5.00 for shipping. Add a 6x4 prop and a little 4 channel receiver and you're set.
This company has wheels and such much less expensive than your LHS (sorry local guys). I've been buying stuff from them for over a year and have been really pleased, especially with the servos. Can't beat under $4.00 for 9 gram servos! I haven't broken any yet and I fly pretty rough.
Old 01-05-2008, 09:19 AM
  #32  
buzzard bait
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ithaca, NY
Posts: 3,286
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default RE: Guillow's #303 Piper Super Cub 95 Build

Thanks Fred. Being a glow engine guy who'd like to do some micro electric without investing 20 hours of research, this is the post I've been wanting to see. Looks like it would actually be ideal on somewhat larger models (for Aeronca types I guess about 30 to 35 inches, built light, right?). But it's still small enough for a little 24 incher. And the price is right!

Anybody have an even lighter suggestion?

Jim
Old 01-05-2008, 11:06 AM
  #33  
frednjess
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: La Vista, NE
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Guillow's #303 Piper Super Cub 95 Build

No problem, buzzard. This is the lightest stuff I know of in this price range. If you want even lighter, but with a heftier price tag, try Plantraco or Sky Hooks & Rigging. Very nice, light stuff but a little pricey.

www.plantraco.com
http://skyhooks.ca/

The Plantraco site has a 4.5" RTF plane that flies pretty nice, or so I've heard. Enjoy!
Old 01-05-2008, 11:41 AM
  #34  
Andrew
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Murray, KY
Posts: 3,213
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default RE: Guillow's #303 Piper Super Cub 95 Build


ORIGINAL: buzzard bait

Looks like it would actually be ideal on somewhat larger models (for Aeronca types I guess about 30 to 35 inches, built light, right?).
Jim --

For a 24" model, the 10 gr. motor should work, providing it's light. For an Aeronca in the size range you mentioned, you might want to consider a little larger motor.

motor, $9.95: http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...idProduct=2069
battery, $8.99: http://www.unitedhobbies.com/UNITEDH...idProduct=5477
servo, $3.65: http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...?idProduct=662

The motor weights 24g, servos are 9g (equivalent to the HS-55), and the battery is 51g (1000 mAh).

The 10A ESC will work with this motor. I've used this combination on a 36" flying wing and foam planes in the range of 19" to 33".

I've also used [link=http://stores.ebay.com/Heads-Up-RC]Heads Up RC[/link] with good service. If you will visit this site, choose a motor, then scroll to the bottom of the page, he has included a lot of information that may be quickly and easily read.

Hobby City/United Hobbies has good pricing, but ship times will run about 3 weeks and shipping can be expensive if much weight is involved. Do not order an item that is out of stock.

Unless the motor ships with it, you will need a mount, prop saver and bullet connectors. You may also need connectors for the ESC and a charger capable of handling Li-Po's.

Old 01-05-2008, 02:29 PM
  #35  
buzzard bait
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ithaca, NY
Posts: 3,286
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default RE: Guillow's #303 Piper Super Cub 95 Build

Andrew, yes, you're right -- lots of helpful data on Heads Up RC. But hear me out on the size. I noticed a guy in the reviews of the Micro Brushless got 9,000 rpm on a 7x3.5 and 9300 on a 6x3. That's better than an overpropped Cox 020, which would be fine on an 8 to 10 ounce, 30-35 inch span scale lightplane.

Since the entire radio and power system would be under 3 oz., I don't think less than 10 oz. would be hard to achieve.

With the 24 inch size, it's going to fly fine, but it will not look very scale-like because it will have to go pretty fast. A two oz. freeflight flies scale-like in that size (puts a lot of big RCs to shame). So to get scale-like flight for this kind of plane, I feel I would need to go larger. Unless I'm missing something here--no experience with this stuff yet.

Anyway, maybe I'm way off on this, but you've all provided some really good info.

Jim
Old 01-05-2008, 03:34 PM
  #36  
Andrew
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Murray, KY
Posts: 3,213
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default RE: Guillow's #303 Piper Super Cub 95 Build

ORIGINAL: buzzard bait
Since the entire radio and power system would be under 3 oz., I don't think less than 10 oz. would be hard to achieve.
It should be fine with 10 oz. AUW and give good scale performance.

The motor I referenced was a 24 gram 1300 kV model. I'm running the 1500kV models on 2s 1000 mAh packs -- they will turn a 8x4 high speed electric prop at 8700 to 8800, but I can't run it wide open for extended periods of time without some heat generation. Our approach has been to run a little larger motor, then turn a larger prop at a lower RPM to extend flight times. These numbers are overkill for a lightly built slow flying model.

Many of the specifications will give the max rpm obtainable for a given size prop, but sometimes these are not sustainable for the entire flight without the motor getting hot.

A lot of the combinations are just trial and error and finding what works well for you. The nice thing about the 10g microbrushless and the 24g Blue Wonders is that they both use the same 30mm mount and will interchange easily. At $10 or so, you can try one of each and still be able to have 3 meals a day.

Regards,

andrew

Old 01-05-2008, 06:21 PM
  #37  
buzzard bait
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ithaca, NY
Posts: 3,286
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default RE: Guillow's #303 Piper Super Cub 95 Build

Thanks again, very interesting and helpful. I'm so comfortable with glows, it's a little daunting figuring out the electrics. Jim
Old 01-05-2008, 07:42 PM
  #38  
BMatthews
 
BMatthews's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Chilliwack, BC, CANADA
Posts: 12,425
Likes: 0
Received 22 Likes on 19 Posts
Default RE: Guillow's #303 Piper Super Cub 95 Build

I'd be more inclined to try to hold the weight to no more than 8 to 9 oz. It'll fly at 10 but I truly feel that for that size it'll be well into the heavier allowable wing loadings. If it was a 30 inch model I'd say sure, and maybe even 12. But that old scaling thing bites harder and quicker as the size shrinks.

I like the lineup Jess gave you a few posts above if you're going RC. That motor and battery option would go a long way to keeping this project a winner. I'd just add that for a foolproof and lightweight Rx you can't really beat the Berg Light caseless version at 4 grams and around $40. The only icing on the cake would be to go with 3.6 gm servos instead of the 5 gram'ers. But for that price if they work decently you can't go wrong and 3 extra grams total won't make or break this project.

And as mentioned above stick to 3 channels with the free flight dihedral choice shown on the plans.

As for the suggested wood switching it's all about bang for the buck. Bass or spruce will provide a LOT of extra strength for only a couple of added grams vs the balsa. In fact knowing some of the Guillows wood you may not suffer any penalty but you'll get a stronger model.

One way to save some weight would be to Dremel rotozip cut some of the inside wood on the bulkheads away. Then to harden what is left you can just run a small bit of wetness of thin CA over the inside and outside edges that have the short grained segments to harden them back up. It would also give you more room for the pushrods and stuff to run through if you switch to RC use. We aren't being condratictory on this but rather trying to suggest adding where needed and taking away where not.
Old 01-05-2008, 08:07 PM
  #39  
build light
Senior Member
 
build light's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Crete, NE
Posts: 2,246
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: Guillow's #303 Piper Super Cub 95 Build

Ditto on what Bruce said. Actually with the ten gram motor set up you should be able to achieve an all up weight of closer to five or six ounces (or even less!) than the fomidable ten ounces. This will give you a more enjoyable flying experience.

Another Guillow's model that has been done with great success in flyability is the Fairchild 24. See it here:
http://www.pennvalleyhobbycenter.com...1fairchild.htm

There is a long thread (on another forum) with several modelers showing how they did theirs plus finished and flying pics as well as flight videos. I was well impressed.

Robert
Old 01-05-2008, 10:09 PM
  #40  
Andrew
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Murray, KY
Posts: 3,213
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Default RE: Guillow's #303 Piper Super Cub 95 Build


ORIGINAL: build light

Ditto on what Bruce said. Actually with the ten gram motor set up you should be able to achieve an all up weight of closer to five or six ounces (or even less!) than the fomidable ten ounces.

Robert --

Are you and Bruce referring to the 24" span plane or Jim's comment about "for Aeronca types I guess about 30 to 35 inches". My comments were all directed toward a plane in the 32 to 34" span. Five or six ounces AUW for a 33" span scale type plane is pretty ambitious.

I'm probably confused about which was being discussed. If you were commenting about the 24" model, then I concur that it's quite doable. If he moves up to a 32 to 34" span, I think a slightly larger setup would give an improved flight time. The 24g Blue Wonder, 2 9g servos, 1000 mAh 2s lipo, BERG 4L, 8x4 prop and ESC weighed about 111g.

andrew

Old 01-05-2008, 10:57 PM
  #41  
build light
Senior Member
 
build light's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Crete, NE
Posts: 2,246
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
Default RE: Guillow's #303 Piper Super Cub 95 Build

I was refering to the model under constrution.

A larger model of course would weigh a bit more.

The Fairchild 24 I referred to has a span of only 25 inches but has more total wing area than this one.

Dave Fritzke made mention of a 36 inch span model that also has been made to fly very well. Larger planes like that one really lends itself well to our newer R/C equipment.

Robert
Old 01-06-2008, 04:51 PM
  #42  
slim_pkns
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
slim_pkns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Richmond, TX
Posts: 155
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Guillow's #303 Piper Super Cub 95 Build

Great info but I'm a bit overwhelmed. I'm going to have to reread these posts a few times to sort out which were meant for the 24" Piper Super Cub. I would definitely like it to fly with a scale look. I'm getting a better understanding of the necessity for light weight, the proper rpm/motor, and prop size to get scale looking flight performance. I just need to piece it all together with the wing load. I'll follow up later with more specific questions about motors after I've digested all the post.

I'm continuing on with the other side of the fuselage build and I think I've done a much better job with cutting out the fuselage formers this time. I hope to finish them in another couple of hours and start gluing before bed. Since I can't really lay the fuselage down level to glue the formers on the opposite side, are there any good techniques I can use to ensure they are 90 deg. off the keel? It wasn't too hard when I could just set the angle down on the board. Also, I'm not sure the left and right halves will touch on a few. I'm guessing it's important to fill the gaps to create a solid piece, eh?

Thanks again for everyones help and encouragement!!!! I'm really enjoying this and even the girlfriend is asking what everyone is saying now.


Old 01-06-2008, 08:07 PM
  #43  
buzzard bait
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Ithaca, NY
Posts: 3,286
Likes: 0
Received 5 Likes on 5 Posts
Default RE: Guillow's #303 Piper Super Cub 95 Build

Sorry if I confused things, Slim. What it boils down to, I think, is that Post #31 from Fred gives you about the lightest system you can get without going for the more expensive, specialized micro stuff. For a receiver, you're probably best off with the Berg that doesn't have a case, as Bruce says. It's very light and has an excellent reputation.

Have I got the radio/power message right, guys?

For the airframe, you really need to keep it light, except that the spars are going to have heavier flight loads than the plane was designed for. Bruce suggests basswood or spruce. I think that one spar is directly over the other, so instead you could just join the top and bottom stock spars with thin sheet (1/16 or even 1/32) with vertical grain - "sheer webbing". I think the in-board one third of the wing would be sufficient. Now you've got a full depth spar that is very strong. Also, you might want a little reinforcement on the dihedral joint--I'm not sure what that looks like.

Forget the ailerons--you will add too much weight in a project this size.

For punching out parts on die cut kits like that, sand the BACK of the sheet first. Then, if necessary, turn over and trace the cuts with an Exacto knife.

The formers aren't really carrying a lot of strain, so don't worry about filling every gap. And especially don't try to fill gaps with glue--use slivers of balsa if you must. Just line them up by eye.

Jim
Old 01-07-2008, 02:55 AM
  #44  
BMatthews
 
BMatthews's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Chilliwack, BC, CANADA
Posts: 12,425
Likes: 0
Received 22 Likes on 19 Posts
Default RE: Guillow's #303 Piper Super Cub 95 Build


ORIGINAL: slim_pkns

....Thanks again for everyones help and encouragement!!!! I'm really enjoying this and even the girlfriend is asking what everyone is saying now.
Just another day in the drama that is General Hospital..... er... I mean RC Universe...
Old 01-07-2008, 04:01 AM
  #45  
combatpigg
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
 
combatpigg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: arlington, WA
Posts: 20,388
Received 26 Likes on 24 Posts
Default RE: Guillow's #303 Piper Super Cub 95 Build

A thread like this is great, lots of info about specific gear has come out and building technique/tips have been pouring in. Hopefully some onlookers have been inspired to build something now along the same lines.
Old 01-07-2008, 10:26 AM
  #46  
frednjess
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: La Vista, NE
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Guillow's #303 Piper Super Cub 95 Build

I'm just glad we have a venue of information sharing like this. Can you imagine trying to learn all of this stuff by sending letters and reading books?
Old 01-07-2008, 11:15 AM
  #47  
TFF
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Memphis, TN
Posts: 4,183
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Default RE: Guillow's #303 Piper Super Cub 95 Build

I am building this kit and i am putting one of the rudder/thottle department store things in mine. Should work because the foam thing is much heaver and I flew it a bunch to check it out. I saw the setup in either Flying Models or Model Aviation first. It was fun flying rudder and power and it should work better in the Cub because i was limited on trimming the foam plane.
Old 01-08-2008, 11:53 PM
  #48  
slim_pkns
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
slim_pkns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Richmond, TX
Posts: 155
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Guillow's #303 Piper Super Cub 95 Build

Great TFF! Nice to hear somebody else is working on a Guillow's Piper Super Cub.

Moving on with my build, as I mentioned in an earlier post, cutting out fuselage formers for the right side worked much better than the first set. After sanding the back side lightly with a fine grit sandpaper and starting with a fresh sharp razor blade instead of the #11 hobby knife blade, I was able to get them out without breaking any. I think the sheet of balsa this set came from was also a bit better stock. I noticed after test fitting them that I would have to trim them back quite a bit to get them to fit against the left side formers. Before I tried fitting them, I thought there would be a big gap that I would need to fill to have them meet but that was not the case.
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Us53171.jpg
Views:	58
Size:	31.1 KB
ID:	846269  
Old 01-09-2008, 12:44 AM
  #49  
slim_pkns
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
slim_pkns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Richmond, TX
Posts: 155
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Guillow's #303 Piper Super Cub 95 Build

I got both sets of former halves trimmed down and fitting pretty well so I started gluing them together. So far, so good. One of the things I was really worried about was getting these right side fuselage former halves to set 90 deg. off the top and bottom keel. Lining up and holding the left halves while the top and bottom keel was pinned to the plan was pretty easy since I could rest the angle on the building board. This time I was struggling with how I could measure this side with the angle without having the board to lay it on. After playing around a bit I realized that the top and bottom keel are straight and glued firm to the left former halves; so, since my angle is pretty small, I could use the keel as the flat surface to rest the angle while holding it in one hand and adjust with the other until the glue was tacky enough to hold it in place. I'm really liking this Titebond White Glue. I used as little glue as I could as you guys suggested and it took VERY little time to bond enough to hold the former in place. I could lay down the model after about 30 seconds or so and I checked the angle again every couple of minutes. Oddly enough, I never needed to adjust it after I had it where I wanted. I just left well enough alone since I have a tendency to fiddle with stuff until I screw it all up. I'm done for tonight but I should have the rest of the fuselage formers done tomorrow night! WOOHOOOO!
Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version

Name:	Hf99382.jpg
Views:	68
Size:	41.3 KB
ID:	846318   Click image for larger version

Name:	Id95348.jpg
Views:	88
Size:	52.2 KB
ID:	846319  
Old 01-11-2008, 12:32 AM
  #50  
slim_pkns
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
slim_pkns's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Richmond, TX
Posts: 155
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default RE: Guillow's #303 Piper Super Cub 95 Build

Well, I didn't notice until I was gluing the last four right side formers in that I SCREWED THE POOCH!!! I glued the left side former half #3 in the place of #2 and #2 where #3 should be. I'm not sure what to do about it yet. I'll add pictures after I stop crying about it. #2 and #3 seems to be almost identical in shape but after gluing the other side on, it make the fuselage twist really badly.

Nice weather here tomorrow and I haven't flown in a long time so I plan to spend the day out at the field since I have the day off. More soon...

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.