Dan Vincent

Andrew,

Yes, the rod is Bronze.

I don't know how strong Bronze is compared to aluminum.

John Brodbeck told me he experimented with some Titanium rods when he made the 3.5cc outboard and airplane engines around 1976 but he said they cost about $45.oo per rod to machine at that time. Too bad they are so expensive, it would solve a lot of stress problem, especially in diesels.

Mr Cox

Titanium isn't that expensive actually, it the just the price per kilo that becomes high...
It is a bit like aluminium to work with, i.e. a bit soft and can smear (depending on the grade).

I'm eager to hear some figures from these engines, rpm and weight ? (haven't seen that anywhere)
Since I already have a few paperweights in this size I think I will wait a bit with my order...

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Yes, we know about the bronze rod....but where do I find out what one of these engines will do with a 5x3 or 6x3 besides look pretty?

ptulmer

My Feedback: (5)

CP, you'll know soon enough! I've got mine in my grubby lil hands and am headed downstairs.

First off, without the carb (a huge plastic affair) and the muffler, it would be reasonably light. So, just like every other carbed, muffled 1/2a engine, it is heavy and without those accessories it is not. Sorry, no firm numbers on the weights as all I have is a postal scale. Just gut feelings.

The fit and finish of the engine is incredible. The prop drive system is ok, but it's obviously a retrofit for a car engine. APC props will have to be drilled and adapters made.

More later.

BTW, I'm betting the bronze rod is aluminum-bronze. Hard stuff, not terribly heavy. But a real bushed 6061 rod may be an improvement.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Patrick, a little extra weight [for most 1/2A planes] isn't any big deal if they can make the engine a rock solid runner. We'll see, your findings will be interesting. I wonder if the bronze alloy gives them wear resistance without taking the extra steps to fit an aluminum rod with a bushing? I'm wondering what their reasoning is. All you need for a good running 1/2A rod is hard aluminum and no bushing. The material that you remove to insert a bushing, plus the crush on the bushing actually [minutely] weakens the parent metal [the rod itself]. If the extra room is available for a meaty rod end to clear the roomy crankcase, then bush the rod. Notice that most 1/2A engines with bushed rods are your heavyweights? I don't have a coffee can full of wasted Norvel rods, what I do have is a coffee can full of wasted P/L sets and crank cases. Except for the rods that snapped from dieseling, all of the old Norvel rods are still good. Toki might have found that the bronze rod survives car rpms better than T-6 aluminum and didn't see the need to alter it for a aero version.
Hope you report back with a smiley guy and not a frowner. []
Benchmark performance, a RC BigMig .061 spins a 6x3 at 19-20,000 and idles well enough to do touch and goes.
An AME .061 spins 26,000 with a 5x3
If the Toki can just come close to these numbers and be trouble free, that will be a victory. There are expanding economies in India and China, similar to ours after WWII, and they will have an appetitie for all the toys that our fathers and grandfathers had 50-60 years ago when 1/2A took off in popularity. With competition from ARF electric, their share will never be as much, but a big company can afford to bide their time and maybe come out with a line up of models to help move the engines.

digital_trucker

cp - as an aside, I get nearly 19K with my AP Wasp and a Graupner 6x3 (which is really a 5.75x3)

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

DT, that really is what all newcomers are up against for performance. It shouldn't be that hard to match, there is nothing fancy or trick about a Wasp. I would love to know what the AP Wasp sales figures are world wide.
When I see a new engine come out without any performance figures to be had, it makes me leery. I think it hurts sales if you have nothing to hide. Let me rephrase that, if you have a performance related product for sale and wish to keep the performance figures private, then a good chunk of your potential market will look elsewhere. On the otherhand if you have a flashy looking product with below standard performance, it will sell in a similar way to when a fisherman snags a fish in the belly.

digital_trucker

To be fair, I'm not running a stock setup on my Wasp. I'm running Sig 1/2A fuel (nothing special there). Where I'm non-stock is using a turbo head w/OS P8 plug, and a flyquiet pipe. I have no idea whether that really contributes to any performance gain, though. I remember from the original thread where we saw the Toki 05 that the manual gave RPM figures for 15% fuel (Sig 1/2A fuel is 25%). I'd be willing to bet a Cox grey 6x4 (if I had one) that the fact that the Toki is using a standard plug derates it's performance a bit. Maybe not so noticeable in car applications, but aero is a whole 'nother kettle of fish.

I guess I'll find out when mine arrive. Maybe I'll fool around on my lathe and see if I can make a turbo head for it. I'm much more interested in the effectiveness of the throttle (I like the muffler setup too).

ptulmer

My Feedback: (5)

Well, I haven't gotten to actually run mine yet, but will tomorrow. Got "stuck" with my little boy for most of the afternoon, then came time to cook supper. (Everybody hates when I do that, but it sure is funny when everybody starts tootin') But I can add another few thoughts.

The head give a lot of compression, but is badly shaped. I wonder if MECOA could be imposed on to make a turbo head? It's bolt-on, so I can easily make my own. The carb is for a much bigger engine and the hole in the barrel is way, way smaller than the inlet. Throttling will happen in a small range of the throw. A venturi will probably work better for this anyway. Anybody got a spare TD venturi for cheap? That would be the easiest way to get it done quickly.

Anyway, I'm set up and ready to run, so will get-r-done tomorrow. Already got the 4.2x4 mounted.

(One real complaint: The fuel nipple is in the way of the muffler bolt, making it more of a pain to test with and without.)

GrahamC

Good evening,

The silver Fuji .05 is the Mecoa assembled (produced) version of the Toki .05. Mecoa has recently purchased the rights to the Toki brand and will marketing some or all of the engines.

As far as I can tell the Fuji is exactly like the Toki 05 except it is natural aluminum. Once all the Toki 05 with the black cases are gone I think they will be all gone. Someone reported that MECOA had 50 left of the black ones a couple of days ago.

I have one on the way but it will be some time before I get a chance to run it. Too much snow in the back yard and my test stand is buried!

cheers, Graham

ptulmer

My Feedback: (5)

The rod has the bright golden color of aluminum-bronze and is small and round like a Cox rod. No improvements to be made there. (I couldn't stand it. It had to come off the stand for some measurements. Adapting a Cox TD venturi will be the easiest thing in the world.)

digital_trucker

Maybe if we can finally get a decent runner we'll have a candidate for hacking. Looks like there's lots of places to pare off weight. Does it really need all those reinforcement ribs in the crankcase? Does the carb really need to be that bulky? Perhaps changing the bearings to ceramics?

If nothing else, it they consistently produce a good pinch at TDC we could have a source of piston/liners for some serious customization.

Looks like I'll have a new CAD subject soon!

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Talk about DFW, that muffler alone must weigh as much as a VA?

digital_trucker

Not much argument it's not likely to be a good competition engine. Plenty of those, however...sport is where it's at!

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

I'm hopeful that it bridges the gap left by Norvel and VA. If not, then Andy can turn them into extremely light .09s

Japanman

PT- I hear you about it`s performance in a car-
I think that as you say, a turbo or nelson head would really get it going better-

Say, if you have it apart, I`d really like to know the diameter of the crankshaft- I am guessing it is 8mm, to make it standard for bearings.

J.M [8D]

Dan Vincent

I wish I could order one of the black case ones for sure.

Trouble is I'm in the process of moving and with all the expenses involved my wife asked me not to spend any money on anything for a while.

Maybe after I move Randy may still have one left.

If not, some of you guys should buy several and then I could trade something later.

Hope they run as well as they look. If they don't I'm sure it can be easily updated to make it a barn-burner.

GrahamC

Isn't that interesting. Is ACME-06 a brand/model or engine sold in Russia? Is is locally manufactured is it's source in Asia like much else?

cheers, Graham

flyinrog

My Feedback: (1)

Dont you have like 1000 engines now chief?...Rog

Dan Vincent

Less than 500 now.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

ACME is a term that was popular in my Dads' day.....it has just about died out. I'll bet most kids under age 40 don't know what it means?

Evgeny, have you seen the airplane version of this engine in action yet?

flyinrog

My Feedback: (1)

Acme is still a huge company that makes everything from boots to bandaids....Rog

GrahamC

Acme - cool. That's where Wiley Coyote bought all his stuff.

This ACME is yet another version of this engine I have stumbled across.

Seems the Toki 05 is the same as one sold under the Sportwerks name http://www.sportwerks.com and sold through Horizon Hobby. This is the base engine in at least the Sportwerks Kaos or Caos 1/18 size car - the Ofan Picco P-0 or P-Zero engine is a common upgrade.

If you search eBay for sportwerks you will run across replacement parts (rods, cylinders, cranks, crankcases etc) for this 05 size engine, compare the pictures and you will find they are identical to those on the Mecoa web site. Spares also available through Horizon Hobby (ie con rod is just under $10). If you look closely at the crankcase you will see "Piktor" marked on the side. http://www.piktor.fr From what I can tell Piktor is kind of like the French version of Ofna or Trinity. Piktor sells a little rc car called the "Miwi" which is similar to the Sportwerks Caos).

So, it seems that this Toki 05 has bread some very common kissing cousins or the Toki 05 is a kissing cousin of one of these others. In any case spares seem to be readily available from sources other than Mecoa.

The story keeps getting more and more interesting.

cheers, Graham

MJD

My Feedback: (1)

American Company that Makes Everything.

How about GNDN? Seen on piping and ducts in certain TV/movie sets, similar era.

I wrote to Mecoa for giggles and asked if they had any performance data on it other than manufacturer's spec sheet copy. No reply yet but only wrote a day and a bit ago. Not holding my breath but we'll see.

hogflyer

ACME - the main supplier of everything for Wile E. Coyote .

Hogflyer