Norman Oliver

Hey... a friend of mine and I are building a Guillow's Stearman.
We're stucked choosing between either a glow engine or an electric one to power the thing.

We're planning this bird to be fully equipped (4 channel).

We'll be installing Hobbico CS-5 Nanoservos on it as well as mini everything (batteries, Rx, etc). I'm not much of a 1/2 A builder, but I know about weight.

My friend thinks the best choice for it will be an electric engine he owns (can't remember brand nor size, but it was barely enough to get a Hobby Lobby Albatross airborne).
I think the best engine for it will be a Norvel 0.7 - 0.9 R/C since I've heard those little things are powerful screamers.

Any suggestions welcomed.

Oh... by the way, I live over 8000 ft over sea level....!

Greetings from México.

AndyW

My Feedback: (1)

At the outset, I was going to recommend the Norvel .074 but not knowing the weight and wing area, I hesitate. Also, 8,000 ft above seal level? Well, StevensAero has gone electric just because altitude density was robbing a lot of engine power. It seems electrics do better as they're not affected by thin air. At least the motor isn't affected.

fastlash

My Feedback: (7)

sounds like a great project but I think glow would be a mistake a friend of mine is in colorado at 9,000ft and says his forty size planes need a sixty engine to get the same perfomance, Lack of air for the engine and prop bite, also make sure the motor you chose will pull a higher than normal pitched prop, if going electric, do you know what your air desity is there?

wild fred

My Feedback: (3)

what is the wing area and weight? as i remember, it was sized for a babe bee for f.f., if so an 074 at 9k feet might not be too bad; the 074 will take 16 oz. straight up at sea level.

Norman Oliver

thanks a lot for the input... yeah... we must go to the high range of manufacturer's recommendations in order to get a good vertical performance out of our planes...

I've built an scaled down Eaglet (something about 40 inches span) and flown it with a .049 Cox... not plenty of power, but could lift the thing. The small blades are less efficient...

I don't know about the thickness of the air at my flying site... I'll check on it this afternoon.

This Stearman's wing area is something about 217 square inches.

I´m thinking about leaving this as a 3 channel plane (Elev, throt, ail). or maybe as a 2 channel (Elev, ail) only in order to keep it light.

thanks again for helping.

AndyW

My Feedback: (1)

Norman,

at 217 squares and considering the altitude density, you're definitely going to require the .074. The other thing to consider is weight.

I've seen a larger Stearman fly and it needed rudder due to adverse yaw. Also, its a tail dragger and you'll need to steer it. I'd make it four channel. DON'T even think about two. You absolutely want to control the throttle. The .074 has very good throttling. Keep weight down using Litespan, light servos in the .20 to .32 ounce range, a .5 ounce Rx and 170 mAh nimh batteries along with a field charger. Check the thread "Weird things and whirly wings about how wing loading can make a HUGE difference.

Norman Oliver

4 channel... not less.... got it...
Thanx a lot for the input

wild fred

My Feedback: (3)

yes, at that area and less than 20 oz. overall, the 074 on a 7-3 should pull it, even at that altitude. the lighter, the better.

OMPEdgeFlyer

i have a gnat bipe, and i use a 110 ma pack. I get about 5 3 minute flights plus the between times for starting and going after the plane before i need to recharge. also, the sanyo 110 cells are so small and light, that 4 is the same weight as 1 aa cell.

Norman Oliver

We've found a Thunder Tiger .09 R/C and We're planning to put it on the Stearman.

Can anyone give me info about this engine?
Is it powerful related to it's weight?
Should I get a Norvel...?

We're also thinking about covering the thing with clear Monokote.
Would this be much heavier than tissue covering?

Greetings.

AndyW

My Feedback: (1)

You should get a Norvel.

Msaint

My Feedback: (5)

Yes use that TT.09 to keep your paper towls from blowing away.
Itll make a good weight.

Put a Norvel .074 on there and run it on at least 25% I personally run mine on 30%.

Ky Flyer

My Feedback: (1)

Get the Norvel. Break it in before you put it on the plane, though, as they are so squeaky tight out of the box, you could tear it right off a feather light airplane trying to start it the first few times.
An 074 on high nitro would fly this plane, even at high altitude.Im not so sure you have to have 4 channels either. The ground handling of this little feller is going to be iffy at best. On grass it will want to tip over, and on blacktop it will want to ground loop. So hand launching may turn out to be your usual method.

The plane will need a couple degrees of side thrust and downthrust I bet too, so think about this as you mount the engine.
And to afffirm that I'm no expert either, the only guillows conversion I've ever tried made me pull my hair out, lol, an SE_5a that I suppose I just couldn't ever get enough nose weight in.

At 1000 ft here or so I suppose, I run all my below small norvels on 35% that contains at least partial castor.

I used them, of course, to drive Wild Fred from the skies and crash into him at will.

wild fred

My Feedback: (3)

crash into ME? there are a few pics on the hcfc website of a certain half a combat plane that says otherwise of course, the time you flew your starcruiser through the ear hair special does come to mind...

on the bipe stuff, your fokker d-vii worked well with the hornet 15, it would be comparable to the stearman, I would think, power to weight wise. he should definately go with the norvel, though, I definately agree with you on that!

Ky Flyer

My Feedback: (1)

lol, ok , ok. Im not skeered of you unless you got an over powered wonder. They hurt.

God help me , I have everyting for the Ziroli Stuka now. I gotta keep up with Bill ( Mister Gasser) and Dave, (mister warbird).

That DVII is still a cutie, too bad I had to use that icky yellowjacket 15 to make it balance. Only the very small and the very large is really cool.
By the way, If anyone doubts the power of those lil Norvel .074s, my avatar shows the 3.25 lb ME-262 that the .074s pull with authority. Well, except fo the first tail heavy flight. hahah.

OMPEdgeFlyer

KY FLYER,

Are you in Kentucky? If so where abouts?

I am building my 2nd Wonder. First one about 8 years ago, and this will will have a TT .44 wedged into it for power (place eevil grin here) and I plan on tear up the club here in SW Ohio with it. I flew my old Wonder with a clipped wing and a K&B .28. It was fast, this one should be blurring.


I am also working on a custom 1/2a take off of the hornet, with fully s. foil. Also clipped it to 24 inches and only a 4 inch Cord, counting the ailerons. I also recessed the wing and made the top of the fuse straight back, so the wing is now in line with the thrust ling as I have inverted the motor. The belly of the fuse is a long arched shape, like the bottom of a wing rib. it as a very short vertical stab sticking up so I added a section sticking down. It will has one wheel in the center of the plane and a skid mounted on the lower vertical stab. A total weight of 14 ounces. 3 channel, TD .051 for power. I am hoping to have pics of it soon on here. This is also my first scratch build custom, so I hope she flies as wild as it looks she will. Named it the Hot Lil 1/2A, and as long as it flies like it looks, the name will fit. Was gonna get it out today but it is a wind storm here, so this weeks sometime I hope.

Norman Oliver

OK...
Thanks a lot all of u for taking a minut to answer our questions. We're finally planning on buying the Norvel .09 R/C to pull the Stearman... Should do fine...
We're still uncomfortable about the wingloading (seems to be a bit heavy), but still gonna go for it...

I'll keep in touch if help is needed from u guys.
Thanx again.
Greetings from México.

wild fred

My Feedback: (3)

opm edge flyer; my boy has one of those, hovers it all over w/ a saito 72, his buddy has one w/ a ys63. me, I hover my kadet seniorita. ky. flier and I tried a symm. wing hornet type once, was fast enough, and aerobatic enough but lost speed in the corners. the flat bottom/reflex airfoil ones had it beat there, but was a moot point, as bill flew right through it with his 1/2a one day...I was flying bill's wonder with a fox 19 on it, the same engine on the wonder box art, and a wicked runner, and it got flown through by mark, quite accidently! all it did to his was cause the engine to quit- as the carb was stuffed full of balsa!

Ky Flyer

My Feedback: (1)

OMPedge, Im in central Kentucky, Near Elizabethtown, on I-65. I try to keep in touch and fly with the folks from Louisville to Bowling Green and From Henderson to Lexington.

Mark.

OMPEdgeFlyer

KYFLYER,


You dont say, My dad is from Louisville, kenneth Fishcher. His dad was the top inssurance guy there for 35 years or so. I used to live on 65 just a mile or so west of Etown, right next to the star something drive in. The big white house next to the road. there was a smaller house on the drivein side of me and on the other side a few hundred yards was a Check Gas station. That was from 81-85. Dont even know if any of that stuff is still there.


I am just a little north of Kings Island in a bitty town called Waynesville. We are having our next dly in on sunday the 22nd of this month. We usually have 25-30 guys in our little group, and even Frank Knoll has stopped by a few times, as some members of the club he is in flys with us as well. If you ever get this way just stop anywhere and ask someone where they fly at, they can tell you. And if noone is there, put one in the air and in a few we will all hear ya and be over. lol

Ky Flyer

My Feedback: (1)

Starlite Drive-in! Long gone now though, Im afraid! I have a buddy in the club with relatives up around florence, and we'll try to get up there sometime, but cant make it the next two weekends as the MInt Julep Scale meet at Falls of Rough , Ky is this weekend, and the Skymac Flying in Bowling Green is next. But Maybe we'll come see you folks!@

Guess im off topic. Here's my save " Good luck with that Stearman, Norm!"

Norman Oliver

thanx a lot !
Have plenty of fun flights...

gerardog

I have the guillow's Stearman with the Norvel .074, I live in mexico at 7000 feet altitude, it flyes great, do many maneuvers, inverted at 1 feet, I made some modifications, like four alerons, landing gear reinforcement, add some plankings, two wings separable, and I make an speccial incidencemeter, if you like, I could send pictures, ideas, incidences etc. pictures etc.

Gerardo Galvez
[email protected]

Half-A-Hec

Howdy All,

Elevation has two effects on our models.

They are:

1. Higher elevations reduce Engine power due to lack of Oxygen by as much as 30%. The fix put a bigger motor = more weight.
2. Because the air is less dense at higher elevations, the flying surfaces are less effective and require more speed to keep the model above a stall. The model is less buoyant at higher elevations. The higher elevations have the same effect on a model as adding weight. Add weight and elevation and you have a rock. Have ya ever dead sticked a model at 7,000 feet? She no Glide!. Dead stick the same model at 500 ft and you have no worries.

If you are ever in Colorado you should check out the Float Flies they have at 10,000 ft above sea level. Only about 5% of the models ever take off the water! This were brute force (i.e. a bigger engine) don't work. Bigger engine = more weight = the float planes don't make it up on step for take off. Only planes with the proper wing loading and float hull design and set up will be successful!


I moved from Sioux City, Iowa (1000 ft above sea level) to Denver (at least 5280 ft above sea level). My Goldberg Anniversary Cub can glide forever if the engine dies in Iowa. In Denver the cub was a rock![X(] I barely made it back to the runway!


Hec