C. McManamay

I would like to build and fly one of these airplanes. Has anyone built and flew one.

planebuilder66

My Feedback: (8)

I was going to bid and buy on one in the bay, but forgot about it and it passed, I say go for it, should be a fun little bipe.

KidEpoxy

I had one with an AP15 in it
That was enough to keep the plane in the air, but far from thrilling.

With just the lower ailerons is had enough to get into & out of trouble,
but with the top ones it could have been more fun, but my power situation didnt lend itself to that kind of flying

DeviousDave

Somewhere I heard that these airplanes really need a .25.. I know the Ace Allstar Bipe was marginal on a OS .15FP

planebuilder66

My Feedback: (8)

The allstar is my next build, maybe next to a mini senior.

mtntopgeo

My Feedback: (12)

I bought the kit & and a new .15xls a couple of months ago. Appears that this plane is gonna be fairly heavy. Like more than double what my simple 400 weighs. Might be installing a .21 on it, making it even more heavy. I'll be watching this thread to see what results others have had. ............................ George K.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

The designers of small bipes seem to forget that all the elements of the total structure add up to adequate strength. The small scale kits that I've seen are built way too chunky. The .60 sized Goldberg Ultimate is a great plane to study to see how lightly a bipe should be built. I think if you want to build a superior flying small bipe, you either have to look towards electric models or do it yourself.

build light

Agreed!
I think the Ace Simple Ultamite Biplane and those like it could undergo some weight reduction!

Robert

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Robert, a few years ago I built a scaled down Ultimate for 1/2A power. It ended up weighing about a pound and was a mediocre flyer. I built a 2nd one right after with an attitude adjustment and it weighed more like 12 ozs and was definitely worth the effort. It hasn't folded yet, so you can say that it too was built too heavy.

flyinrog

My Feedback: (1)

I've got one in the box with a .25la to go on it, some day....Rog

planebuilder66

My Feedback: (8)

Well, it has a foam core wing, just sheet it like they say but in 1/32" light balsa, add false rib caps and hog out the centers to form the ribs from foam, get rid of all unnessary weight, add small 1/16 or 1/8 internal stringers and make big lightening holes in the fuse. A little here and there will add up to a moderate wieght savings as long as your concious all the way through the build. Even try to build a unitized basswood engine mount rails in the side cheeks of the nose, if it's lighter than a resin mount, then theres 1/2 to 1 ounce right there. Sometimes you have to be creative or think of multipule options and fingure out which is lighter and stronger, most of the time, easy is not lighter.

KidEpoxy

I didnt sheet my wings.
Just some filiment tape & the iron-on covering.
They didnt fold, but they sure didnt stand up to that cartwheel very well.

planebuilder66

My Feedback: (8)

Well, if I remember correctly, the stinger 10 I built had a foam wing you sheeted, (I don't know if ace/TT specifies that), but it weighed a ton until you gutted the sections between the false cap-strips, then the wing became nice and light, you'd be suprised how much foam weighs when you get rid of 1/2 of the material. It's just a thought.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

The 1/2A SST from Hobby Shack used the same construction and it was a brick. I believe that was the kit that inspired me to start learning how to scratch building models.
Even the foam / balsa hybrids like the Ace GLH turned out heavier than the pure balsa counterparts.

mtntopgeo

My Feedback: (12)

Other than some extra strength, I don't think that it's worth going thru all the extra work of sheeting, capping, & hogging out, then covering the wings. Last time I tried this on a foam wing, I 'bout broke even on weight. Granted, it was stronger. This thread has prompted me to break out the Simple Ultimate kit again. All 4 pieces of the foam wing assembly(s) add up to about 5 & 3/8 OZs. That aint bad for nearly 400 "s of wing area. The real grim, on this plane, is that the remainder of it's construction is almost all ply-wood. The plywood bundle in the kit comes to 13 & 3/4 OZS. There is some excess here, since I didn't want to punch out the parts. The total acc. pack (landing gear, wing mounts, tank etc.), came to 6 & 3/8 OZs. Total balsa pack came out at 1 & 5/8 OZs. Add to that, Engine, engine mount, covering, batt, servos & receiver, pushrods, etc., etc., & You're gonna have a lead sled. I gotta go along with CP on this one. Look at the elect. bipes, find a good one, & convert over. C.McMan., if your still interested in this kit, (I wouldn't be) PM me. i'll give you a very good price; otherwise, it'll find it's way to that auction site. .................... George K.

KidEpoxy

While lightening holes in balsa is a minor savings,
you can cut some real weight numbers if you swisscheese ply.

hILLVILLE

My Feedback: (64)

This was the first kit I ever built. It turned out fine without any special building. I overpowered mine with a OS15 or 20, I can't remember. I learned a valuable lesson, small is convenient, but being able to see a plane is convenient as well. It was fast and you couldn't fly it really far away from you or you would lose orientation. My landing gear came off about every flight and then was epoxied back on every evening. My buddy hated it and couldn't understand why I enjoyed it so much. It took off great and it flew great.

One day the battery came loose and it looped several times about 50 feet off the ground. I just stood there watching and then I decided to try to catch it. About half way there I gained control and landed it, and yes the landing gear brole off again. I thought the plane was cool for my first Bipe. You get what you pay for. I got my $50 dollars worth.

MJD

My Feedback: (1)

One aircraft design that has blown me away lately, in terms of how freaking heavy the fuselage is designed, is the smaller versions of the Birdie. I have a Baby Birdie under construction and a Birdie 10 built by someone else. The latter is a .10 size airplane, whose fuselage, I kid you not, is as heavy and probably almost as tough as a quickie 500 fuse. Nuts! Plywood everyewhere, doublers, triplers, there are likely some quadruplers hidden somewhere. Okay I exaggerate, but it's friggin' heavy. I'd just add engine but the wing is way behind the fuselage in terms of durability. The Baby version seems generally okay in comparison but not as light as it could be. Then again, some durability is a good idea too, it's just that balance between the two seems out of reach for some large kit designers moving down the scale.

Here I am grumbling about weight, and the nose of the Baby Birdie is hogged out to make room for a CX .11. I'm taking advantage of the fuselage's robust construction shall we say.

mohr_dave

My Feedback: (6)

I have built/flown one of the Ace Ultimates with an OS 25 and it was great. I did one too many flat spins with it and the wings have been patched too many times to rebuild. I have the second one going together now. With the 25 the thing would do pretty much anything you would want it to, yes, even hang on the prop. The issue with weight is due to the lite ply. You could easily!!!! eliminate the ply outer and use 1/8" balsa . One thing with the lite ply, this thing is a little tank! My fuse is still in one piece from my original plane. I'll probably end up putting another wing set on it.

One of the things I did to my original after one of my messing around landings:
- Enlarged the rudder by about 15%

I'm thinking of making this one's rudder more true Ultimate-ish, instead of having the LE of the vertical fin end in a point.

The LG mount needs to be re-inforced!! Also, I used William's Brothers wheels. They are taller and thin and allow the plane to nice roll-outs and take-offs without getting stuck in the grass.

Servos were all HS-55s, one each for rudder, elevator and throttle, one in each lower wing half for aileron.

On low rates it's actually fairly stable. On high rates, you can spin this plane through the air at an unbelievable rate. It will flat spin nicely as well and if you increase the area of the elevator will do very tight loops. They aren't that bad to start with but with all of the 3D guys out there, it's not in the same league.

Anyhow, it's a quick and easy build. It can be left together unless you break it. It's great for the awe-factor at the field when you bring out something this small and fly it in the wind. Yes, it does well in the wind!

I've attached an image of mine before changing the rudder.

Dave

AMB

Got mine about 2 yrs a go still in the box, think I will sheet the wings, I think my Kand B 20 with a Davis diesel head might be a good combo
the engine needs a home and should be ample power martin

mohr_dave

My Feedback: (6)

AMB,
I saw a post somewhere, can't remember if it was here or RCG or ? but someone else sheeted the wings on one of these as well. I can't remember exactly how it flew or what they had for power. I do know that I haven't been a huge fan of the "foamies" but am very surprised at how durable the wings are with the packing tape re-inforcement and covering.

Dave

vertical grimmace

My Feedback: (1)

I feel that sheeting these wings would be way overkill. The Ace foam wings that I have flown did seem to need some stiffening though. I think the best solution would be to cut spar slots top and bottom and glue in a small 1\8" x 1\8" spruce or similar spar. the add a little shear web at the tips to tie them together.
This this is already too heavy, why add more weight?

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

I'm always amazed when I lift one of these planes.....you have a mental image of what a small model should weigh, then OMG........you wonder if the builder left some tools inside it

mohr_dave

My Feedback: (6)

I've just cut a slot roughly 12" long, ~2 1/2" aft of the LE at the outer end and inserted a 1/16" or 1/8" balsa on edge in the slot and used gorilla glue, for my strengthener. It doesn't need much and if you make it too stiff, it will snap.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Inserting a little bit of balsa like that weighs very little and does a whole lot more than 1/4 pound of strapping tape.