MuggyDude

This should be the one and only battery thread for these new mini Traxxas trucks. Any questions or discussions about their batteries post it HERE.
I'm going to start out with a few things:

Battery box dimensions
Specs of stock battery
Possible battery configurations
Batteries that will work for these kits
Chargers

Please feel free to add anything you want to this list.

The battery box dimensions are:

Height: 20.3mm
Width/Depth: 35.5mm
Length: 102mm


The stock battery is 1200 mah. Traxxas says you should get about 7-10 minute of run time. From what I've read new owners aree getting 10-20 minutes of run time.

There are a number of different battery configurations you can run. (As in, one 6 cell nihm pack or two). You can just one run 6 cell nihm 2/3A battery pack box stock (traxxas one) for top speed of about 30 mph(on the brushless versions) and run times of about 15 minutes. You can add another 6 cell nihm pack and a series connector for top speeds of 50 mph and run time of about 15-20 minutes. You could run the same two packs with a parallel connector for top speeds of 30 mph and run times of 30+ minutes. The best 6 cell 2/3A packs are 1600 mah. Top speed for one pack will probably be a little over 30 mph and closer to 20 minutes run time. So thus a series connector with the better packs will be 50mph+ with about 20 minute run times and with a parallel connector 30-35mph top speeds and 40 minute run times.
Now for lipos. You will be able to run many different options. Maxamps is already making some packs (both 3S, 2s
lipo and 6 cell nihm) specifically for these trucks, and I'm sure they'll have some packages soon. You can run just one 2S lipo pack (1500mah+) for about 20-25 minute run times and 35mph+ top speeds. You could also run two 2s lipos in parallel for about 35mph top speeds and closer to 45 minute run times. Now for all you insane speed freaks out there, you may also run two 2s packs in series, but you must purchase a separate LVC(low voltage cutoff). The stock VXL ESC only has LVC for up to 3s, not 4 cells. Novak makes a good one, will post some links below*. With two 2s packs in series you'll be getting in excess of 50 mph and about 25 minute run times (please watch your temps though, as it will still be hard on the ESC. I'm not liable of you damage your car in any way while running this, though Traxxas themselves has said you can run it as long as you run your own external lvc) The best setup seems to be running two 3s lipos (1600 mah) in parallel. 40 mph+ top speeds and close to 1 HOUR long run times. You can also run 1 3s lipo for 40 mph top speed and 30 minute run times.
Please keep in mind that these run times are not exact, as these cars aren't fully available yet, the only ones available are the brushed version of the Slash located at Amsoil dealers. The top speed should be very close, give or take a couple of mph. So keep in mind that if we find out that on 1 stock traxxas pack it will run for 25 minutes, then all the other run times should rise about 10 minutes appropriately.

You hear me talking about series and paralell connectors. What are they? A series connector is a connector that consists of 3 different connectors wired together. 2 male connectors and 1 female connector.(the males into the batteries and the female into the ESC like just one battery. This type of battery makes your two battery packs like one big one. So it would make two stock Traxxas 1200 mah 6 cell nihm 7.2V packs like one big giant 1200 mah 12 cell 14.4 volt nihm pack for DOUBLE THE VOLTS AND SPEED(or close to it). A paralell connector is the same 2 males, 1 female connector (Looks like a two headed snake, as the series looks like a big triangle, LOL) The paralell connector makes two Traxxas 1200 mah 6 cell nihm 7.2V packs like one 6 cell nihm 7.2 2400 mah pack for DOUBLE THE MAH FOR DOUBLE THE RUN TIME. (Please correct me if I'm wrong.) This same rule applies for lipos and other batteries.



Here are some batteries that will work for the kits:

What seem to be the best Nihm batteries available on the market today*: http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXMEY5&P=7

Stock Traxxas Nihm Pack: http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXXKV5&P=7

2 of the best 3s lipos for the buck*: http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...00mAh_3S1P_20C
and: http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...0mAh_3S1P_20C_

2 of the best 2s lipos for the buck*: http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...00mAh_2S1P_20C
and: http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...0mAh_2S1P_20C_
(Plus many more, tons that work on Hobby City. Shop around there! Great Lipos for great prices.)

Expensive, but most likely good Maxamps packs(come waterproof, which is a big plus for these trucks.(Nihm packs are naturally water resistant, so this is just the plus for lipos)):http://www.maxamps.com/products.php?cat=221 (check out the whole page!)(Little weird, they are saying double speed and run time with the parallel connector, which is not true. And 60 mph guaranteed? I might take them up on that. Why would 11.1 Volts be faster than 14.4 volts? Weird.)

Great Nihm IB cells for a great price: http://www.all-battery.com/intellect23a1600mah.aspx
Same cells, but assembled: http://www.rcmart.com/catalog/rc-m18...l?cPath=52_953

Pro-Match Racing 1600 mah 6 cell nimh packs, great packs some of the best: http://www.promatchracing.com/proddetail.php?prod=1601

Some more IB packs with TRX connector: http://aedownloads.com/press/in_051909_reedy.pdf

And there are many other batteries to choose from. Let me know of any others you can think of. Just about all packs for the RC18 series trucks should work for these guys.




Lipo+Nihm Chargers with built in balancers(yes, you need to balance your lipos, and it shouldn't slow charging very bit at all):

Hyperion EOS 0606i AC/DC Charger, this is what I got, great charger and can do just about everything you need, up to 6S lipo*: http://www.allerc.com/product_info.p...oducts_id=3367

HYPERION EOS0610I DUO II-DUAL PORT ALL IN ONE CHARGER, can charge two batteries at once, big plus for these trucks, but a little pricey*: http://www.allerc.com/product_info.p...oducts_id=3976

Great Planes ElectriFly Triton EQ AC/DC Charger, pretty much exactly the same as the Hyperion 0606i, but with better instructions*: http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXVRS6&P=ML

Great Planes ElectriFly Triton2 EQ AC/DC Chgr w/Bal LCD, same as above but with much higher voltage output, can charge at up to 8.0A(Probably one of the best, only thing lacking is can't charge two batteries*: http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXVZA8&P=ML

Venom AC/DC Pro Charger U/L Approved, similar features to the 0606I: http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...&I=LXUAB8&P=ML



*As I mention earlier, if you want to run 2 2s lipos in paralell, you'll need an external low voltage cutoff. Here's a great one from Novak:
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXPGN1&P=7

If there is anything I missed, was incorrect on, or there's something I should add, please tell me.

Hope this helps! Took me a while to write! LOL


(*means needs a traxxas battery connector, with the exception of the LVC)

FairTax4me

Suppos'n you have a Lipo capable charger but it doesn't balance, you can pick up the Hyperion EOS LBA10 from AMain (when they finally get them back in stock).
http://www.amainhobbies.com/product_...ducts_id/18801

Does the same as the Great Planes Equinox or Flightpower/Trakpower V-Balance, except it can charge at up to 10 amps. Can also be wired up to any Hyperion charger with a Data Port for monitoring individual cell voltage levels while charging or balancing. Can also be connected with another LBA10 to balance up to two 6S packs together for series/parallel operation.

blade466

Actually, I think that if you run 2 2s lipo in parallel, the internal LVC on the VXL ESC should be enough as long as your 2 lipo batteries have always been used together. They should also be balanced as one battery so they start with the exact same voltage in each cells.

An adapter like this one can be used to balance 2X2s as one 4s, just make sure you know how to proprely use it.
[link=http://cgi.ebay.ca/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170324559018&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSA:CA:11]2x 2s > 4s[/link]

Also, did you noticed that MaxAmps claims 40mph+ on a 7.4v lipo, and 60mph+ on a 11.1v lipo?

Oh and great post by the way.

MuggyDude

Yeah, that's what crazy. Traxxas has said and claimed that it will go 50 mph with two 6 cell nihm batteries in series at 14.4 volts. Usually their claims are a little on the high side. Why would one 3S lipo at 11.1 volts go 60 mph? And 1 2S at 40 mph? So they're saying 0.2 volts = an increase of 10 mph? Yeah right! Thanks for the link. Does that mean you can charge 2 2s packs as one 4s pack, or just balnce two charged batteries together? Is there one for 3s? As i said before, I've actually talked to a Traxxas guy. He said the ESC will be fine on 2s in series, but it needs a external LVC. He may be wrong, but it's directly from Traxxas, not me.

FairTax4me

If the cells in one pack have a higher internal resistance than the cells in the other they will discharge faster. How much of a difference it will make depends on the quality of the cells. Technically no two cells are exactly alike, but when building multi-cell packs most manufacturers will match the cells close enough that it doesn't matter. Battery care can also play a part in how well they discharge.
I'd use two separate cutoffs, one for each pack, just to stay on the safe side.

Higher gearing and higher discharge capacity would be my guess. Voltage isn't everything when you're talking about top speed.

blade466

@FairTax4me

Its true that each cells is not exactly the same and one might discharge faster that the other, but I feel that it is safe enough if I only balance them together without using 2 separate LVC (as long as I start with 2 bran-new packs) Also since I will be using cheap Zippy Rhino 2s lipos, I doupt that they match their cells.

If I remember correctly Traxxas's LVC is set so as soon as you reach 3.6v per cell, you get 50% power, and at 3.4v they just stop the car. Lipos are damaged when they go below 3v/cell so you would still have a pretty good margin even if the cells are not matched.

@MuggyDude

Yes with that adapter you could charge 2X2s packs as one 4s. Here is a good link that explains it all (serie connector is required):
[link=http://www.rc-monsters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9881]How To: Make a Y Balancer Harness[/link]

As for the 3S> 6S adapter they do make one:
[link=http://cgi.ebay.ca/Align-XH-JST-type-Lipo-battery-balance-6s-to-3s-adapter_W0QQitemZ160330339764QQihZ006QQcategoryZ34 056QQcmdZViewItem]2X 3s > 6s[/link]

And at last, if you dont want to make your own serie or parallel adapter, Great Planes make them with deans connectors:
[link=http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/WTI0095P?FVSEARCH=GPMM3143&search=Go]Serie Adapter[/link]
[link=http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0095p?FVPROFIL=++&FVSEARCH=GPMM3142&search=Go]Parallel[/link]

Hope it helps!

it8ezbngrn

What about Intellect Batteries (IB) cells? You can get them for $20 shipped off of ebay in bothe side by side (rc18) and stick style (traxxas)

In parallel, I don't think you would need an external LVC since the voltage should be the same and I believe it has an LVC for 2S internally, but there always could be a difference of draw on each batt and one could go lower than the other. My E revo batts differ in volts after a run. SO there is a chance of dammage and you may want to get two LVCs or at least a Monitor that beeps for each battery to be totally safe. The voltage of both batteries should be the same (roughly) in series 14.4 volts also but you would need one cause there is no LVC for 4S. You would have to buy one for series config and all-battery.com has them. It connects to the reciever and the ESC connect to it and the balancing plugs of each battery connect to it. Cost is $30. So $30 plus teh cost of two 2S Lipos. In series the Volts add up 7.2 +7.2 =14.4 but the current stays the same. I feel that this running two Lipos in series or parralel is waste of money and not much gain over a single 3S. Two 2S in paraller is a butt load of current, way more than needed and would be only useful for some marathon run. Also costly, two lipos plus a LVC for $30 that monitors both batts(same as series LVC). Two 2S in series would cost the same as parallel but would only have 3 volts more and MAYBE the same current than a 3S but I doubt it.

11.1 would be easy and best choice since I believe it has an LVC. You would just need one. Also more current. A 3S Lipo is gonna have more current than two 1600 nimhs in parallel and more than two 2S in series. Cause best they can do is 3200mah and a Lipo is like 1800 or more and times that by at least 10 (10C). So you get the best of both worlds (volts and current) and probably the cheapest Lipo choice. I say that cause you just buy one battery and no external LVC. Also probably the lighest choice. 3 cells not 4 and Nimhs cant even come close. I figure it if the car is heavy enough to keep traction, then no need to add more weight. More weight means harder crashes and landings. F=MA. Force equals mass times acceleration.

The way I see it is like this, you have two choices. Two 7.4V 1600 IB cells for $40....OR one 11.1V 3S lipo. The Lipo would have more current and I would just need a balancer. LVC should be in the ESC already. The cost of this set up is gonna depend on what you have already. One Lipo can caost as little as two Nimhs but thats if you already have a LIPO compatible charger and a balancer. If not its gonna go up another $110. Then you have to treat the batteries with care. No overcharging, no over discharging, never leaving them plugged in, never charging them unattended or around anything that could catch fire, etc. Not for beginners.

I know for a fact that I will sell the two stock traxxas batts I have comming. Now I need to decide if I want to get a 11.1 3S lipo and balancer (I have the rest) and deal with the care of them or two 1600 Nimhs for $40. Three things I want to find out first. How does it run with two Nimhs in series and parallel? Since one has more volts but the other more current. Both will allow more speed than one single batt. Second, what Lipo fits the battery compartment nicely. Having a tight fit would best, especially if your not using a hardend case. Having a lipo slapping around is gonna be trouble. It will need to fit tight or have padding added. Third is how heavy is it W/O batteries? IS two Nimhs to heavy? Would I need to stiffen up the suspension? How much more damage may occur with two nimhs? Will i bounce off that curb? Those things in the long run could make it worth wile to maybe get a cheap Lipo setup.

If you don't have a lipo charger and balancer already I would suggest the two 1600 Nimhs and a series connector. You can make the the series and parallel connectors yourself. I am switching to deans plugs anyway. Otherwise prepare to shell out some $$$$.

it8ezbngrn

Here are some specs of NIMH batts also.
Side by side RC18 style is 102mm X 31mm X 18mm OR 4" X 1.2" X .7" roughly
Stick style is 90mm X 36mm X 18mm OR 3.5" X 1.4" .7" roughly
So if its close to any of these specs it should. When using the inner dimmensions of the battery compartment you need to take in accoung for the wiring. Including if the balance plug is going in or out of the compartment. I figure something close to 102(4") X 36 (1.4") X 18 (.7") should fit. Since this is the largest number from each above.

The nimhs are 2/3A cells. IB makes them. You can get then loose or assembled. All-Battery.com has them and RC-mart.com (dinball.com) has them on thier site and on ebay. $21 shipped Ea. Orion supercharge is $24 from Tower.

Lipos vary. One thing that I can say is that only so many companies can make Lipo batteries. So most are from the same company or companies and re-baddged with an RC car companies logo.

it8ezbngrn

Muggy Dude,

If you havent read what I put, a 11.1 would be faster due to current. Thats why I say its the best choice.

MuggyDude

Then wouldn't two 3s lipos in parallel be the best? Fastest speeds, and double the run time? I've already ordered two Zippy 1600 mah 3s batteries and two Team orion Supercharge 6 cell nihm batteries. I'll add the IB cells later today. I do agree that 3s lipos are the best choice though. I'm also selling my stock traxxas pack. The problem with only running 1 pack is the car would be pretty unbalanced.

it8ezbngrn

Yes, but I don't think that there would be any benefit. You could have a milllion amps available, the car is only gonna use what the motor pulls and teh ESC allows. So there is a point. Also the cost of running two at once, having to add a $30 LVC.
Also think of it like this. Volt is like horse power and Mah is like torque. If you had a car you would want a balance of both. If you have a diesel truck it be like having all Mah. All volts and no mAh would be like having a Honda S2000, Hi reving no torque.
I want to get a Lipo, 11.1 but not sure which one to get. I like teh max amps style, hard case, water resisant but price. Then I look at Tower and teh price isn't so bad. The other site have cheap batts, but I'm skeptical since this is my second Lipo in a car. First one was by Dynamite in a MLST and second was in a Heli. It rains here 4 days out of the week so being able to run in the wet would be nice. Maybe I neeed a wet and dry pack.

Thing is though, if weight is not an issue with the car, then is it worth it to buy cheap 3S packs to get another 10 MPH? I can get 2 IB packs for $40 and hit 50 or spend double and hit 60. And thats just for the packs. It gets worse if you need a balancer $30 and a charger $80. You could have more in batts and chargers than in the cost of the car. I only paid $240 for mine.

blade466

Wouldn't running two 2s1p batteries in parallel be the same as having one 2s2p pack? The main difference is that with the 2s2p pack you won't be able to balance each cells individually (4 cells), while with two 2s1p packs it's possible to balance each cells using a 2X2s>4s adaptor. Also, using packs in parallel ease the load on each cells, which help them to keep their balance.

We should try to find out what the guys with E-Revos, Savage Flux and other trucks using 2 packs have been doing to keep their lipo packs in shape.

In the worst case I will end up buying 2 lipo alarms even if I use the internal LVC, but I find it might be a little overkill.

FairTax4me

I plan to buy a CellSheild. It monitors each cell individually, has an adjustable cutoff point, and can do up to 6 cells. The only hangup with it is that it was designed for single direction speed controls. So when it reaches its cutoff point with a forward/reverse ESC, it will cut throttle back by 7% as its first step, but then once the car is stopped, it will go into reverse. But you can either disengage reverse, or just pay close attention to when the cutoff engages and be prepared to give part forward throttle to keep the car still.

Yes. Either way its 4 cells wired in such a way that you get 7.4V.

it8ezbngrn

all-battery.com has something like that I think for $30. I know it will do two packs individually and it would work in series or parallel configs.

Still I think one 11.1 would suffice if you can get a decent Mah or C rating. Then maybe two cheap packs in series with a LVC .... bla bla bla. really there are so many ways do do it. Especially since the mah of the packs differ so much. Its like there's too many choices. And packs are like car amplifiers. Can you trust the rating if its a cheap one? I can get a 500 watt good one for $350 or a 800 or 1000 watt cheap one for $250. So how can we tell?

I guess to go all out it would be two killer 7.4 in series or two 11.1 in parallel. Then find a good LVC. I would like to be able to stand a lil moisture so that mean NIMH or a good Lipo unless I seal it myself or something. If its sealed how can you tell if its swelling? Is that possible?

I think I'm gonna have to sit back and wait and just keep notes on stuff I see till then. I wnat to go fast but do I need to hit 50 or 60? How controllable is that gonna be. I was satisfied with my1/16th Tamiya Tamtech with a Tekin mini rage on a 1600 nimh. Yes faster would of been cooler and I would of done it, but over 50 is a bit much I think. Gonna break stuff alot I bet.

MuggyDude

First of all, the 3s Zippy lipos I specified would be either $40 shipped for the 1500 mah or $47 shipped for the 1600 mah, and these packs have gotten absolutely fantastic reviews, these aren't just some cheap lipos that last for 10 cycles. Second, I'm still extraordinarily skeptical that two 3s lipos in parallel will go 60 mph. Traxxas themselves said it would go 40 mph on one 3s lipo. Though Maxamps claims it, I do not think that these trucks will go 60 with 2 3s lipos in parallel. It's still only 11.1 volts, not 22.2v. I would say it will probaby go closer to 45-50 mph. And I have to disagree with you. Volts is like horsepower, or speed. And mah is like run time, not torque. That's why a 6 cell 2000 mah nihm will run 10 minutes and a 6 cell 4500 mah nihm battery will run 25 minutes. And just so you know, the ESC will still use the lvc for 2 3s lipos in parallel same as just one 3s lipo. Same with 2 2s batteries in parallel. Well, at least i'm pretty sure. When running two 3s lipos in parallel I'm pretty sure that the LVC should still work perfectly fine. All the ESC will "see" when running two 1600 mah 3s lipos in parallel is one 3s 3200 mah lipo. Right? So then you shouldn't need a separate lvc either?

MuggyDude

added IB cells

blade466

Yes the LVC will see one 3s pack when you use two 3s packs in parallel. It wont see the mah of the battery, only the total voltage, that is how it knows when to cut the power in order to prevent over discharge.

MuggyDude

Thank you. So it8ezbngrn, you will not need a separate lvc for running two 2s or 3s lipos in parallel. So I figure it can cost you about $40-$50 for 3s lipos in parallel and about $40-$50 for 6 cell nihm in series or parallel. Same cost. I'm doing both. It will cost about $70-$80 for 2 2s lipos in series.

blade466

Well he is not wrong either, your 2 batteries are not exactly the same. It would be possible that one of the two would discharge slightly faster than the other. In that case, a cell could go lower than 3.0v while the others ares perfectly fine so the LVC would not kick in immediately.

If you start with 2 new packs, balance them together before each runs, and always use them together, I think it's very unlikely to happen. Someone correct me if I'm wrong

MuggyDude

yeah, I think you should be fine as long as you use two identical style, brand, and age packs. And the traxxas LVC is set to go 50% throttle when the cells hit 3.7 volts, and cut off the motor at 3.6 volts. Should be near impossible for one cell to get below 3.0v whitout the other cells getting to at least 3.7 volts. Does this sound right? I'm not quite sure where I heard this, I'll have to look on Traxxas' site.

blade466

Each time someone talks about Traxxas's LVC voltage I see different numbers

What I heard is 3.6v for 50% throttle and 3.4v for the cut off. I wonder what's the official numbers...

FairTax4me

Well 3.7v is nominal voltage for a lipo cell. I would think it's probably lower than that.

it8ezbngrn

I wan't saying that you suggest cheap lipos, but the prices due vary alot between all the ones out there, they start at $20 and go up to $90 for a 3S. And if you haven't purchased a particular brand then how do you know which one to go with? and if one costs $10 or $20 more than another is it really better? Its like you need a slide rule to do a comparision between the prices, mah, C rating and wiring posibilities. You can sit there a think "Do I get the two 2S's here or the one 3S there?"

My E Revo with two 8.4V 7 cells that are wired in series in the ESC to make the 16.8 volts has issues with the batts at differnt volts after runs. One ends up hotter than the other and series is a more balanced config than parallel. Think about it. Its like having a 14 cell flashlight with all the cells in a row. They all pass through each other, and I still have an issue. So it is very possible that two 2S batts could end up at different voltages, especialy in one of the four cells, due to natural imbalances, wiring, connectors , soldering, etc.

I'm not going to run two of anything unless its nimh. One single 11.1 3S is enough for each run. Two is way over kill. Maybe two 7.4 2S in series but not two 3S. Lets say a 3S is 2000mah. Thats 2 amps times that by teh C rating an thats like 40 amps. Double that cause your running two and thats 80 amps. I think thats just overkill. Might as well save the pack for the second run or keep it to balance teh weight but you won't need to run it I think.

Mah is current, and volts with out the current behind it is about worthless. So I consider it to be like torque, cuase you can got to the store and buy some Duracell C size make all the volts you want and put in your car but step on the throttle and see how fast it gets up an goes then. It will run longer with more MAH but less makes it run slower. So IF mah was like "run time" then it wouldn't effect speed at all. A car would run the sae speed on a 2000 asa 4000 and thats not true. That's why Traxxas says a 11.1 beats the 2 Nimh in series. Its because of the current. The voltage is close but the current wins out. Also its current that kills people not volts.

I have to make a decision based on price, needs, and wants. Need water proof or at least resistant, want speed but not warp speed, don't wanna pay $90 for a single 3S battery.

PS they pushed the release date back to 30 May

blade466

Yeah I saw that they pushed the release to may 30th. Some people called Traxxas and its supposed to be the date at which it get to the stores.

About your E-Revo running on dual 8.4v nimh packs, do you think that one pack might get hotter than the other because of the BEC? Since the ESC has 2 connectors on it, one of them is drawing power for the steering servo as well as the receiver plus the motors, while the second one is only to power the motors. On the Mini E-Revo VXL however, if we plug 2 batteries in parallel, the split is done before connecting the batteries to the ESC since it has only one plug for a battery.

One more thing about parallel, its true that we double the amps by using 2 packs in parallel, but as for now, the specs for the 380 Velineon motor are not yet available. So we have no idea how much this motor can draw (constant and peak). This is very important when choosing a lipo battery...

If someone manages to find the info let us know

MuggyDude

Look on Traxxas' site, the motor is 4000kv and a 8 turn. Not sure if there any other specs yet. And the ones I linked on Hobbycity are $40-$50.