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"1/2 A" & "1/8 A" airplanes These are the small ones...more popular now than ever.
View Poll Results: A poll
have cox .010 diesel
14.29%
would like a cox .010 diesel
21.43%
could make the conversion if motivated
7.14%
are a die hard .010 fan
57.14%
Voters: 14. You may not vote on this poll

cox .010 diesel

Old 02-27-2011, 05:30 AM
  #1  
nitroairplane
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Default cox .010 diesel

hello there i have been wondering lately how a cox .010 would fair as a diesel unfortunatly i dont have the things needed to make a diesel head and stronger crank shaft so was wondering if there is any one out there who could make one i would pay a good price, i dont want one strait away but i might relly want one in amonth or so if you could do this please contact me i know someone tried recently in australia with less satisfactory results but i would like to have one still i think i remember hearing about a guy called andy w doing this is he here?
all the best,
nitroairplane
Old 02-27-2011, 10:27 AM
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coriolan
 
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Default RE: cox .010 diesel

The Cox TD .010 is not strong enough to be converted to diesel, even the .049 is marginal as conversion. Much better to buy an engine designed as diesel than try to convert a very small glow like the TD .010. The isn't too many options in that size except for Ron Valentine now, there is some one of a kind home build but they cost even more when found. There is a good supply of spares for TD .010 so it might as well be used as glow only!
Old 02-27-2011, 12:25 PM
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Default RE: cox .010 diesel

I'm a fan of the tiny TD .010 and fly them regularly. In my opinion, they are easy to start once you learn the proper technique and run great on 25-30% nitro glow fuel. They work so well as a glow engine just barely sipping small amounts of fuel that I don't really feel it would be worth all the effort to redesign it as a diesel. It would be easy to ruin a perfectly good little engine. Just my opinion.
Old 02-27-2011, 12:57 PM
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gkamysz
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Default RE: cox .010 diesel

It would be interesting to see how it performs. I understand the stock crank breaks in short order. I have an AE 0.1cc and it runs OK, but turns the Cox 3x1.25 at 17-18k at best. Not sure what this would fly as far as RC. If the TD .010 ran that prop close to what it does on glow, it would be worth while to me. One day I'll make a crank........
Old 02-27-2011, 02:17 PM
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MJD
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Default RE: cox .010 diesel

As others have suggested, I would be pretty concerned about the life of the stock conrod and crank.
Old 02-27-2011, 10:54 PM
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Default RE: cox .010 diesel

I'll be honest with you, the TD .010 as coo as it is, is not a very robust motor all the way around. Probably fine if you run it in a FF plane, but I managed to nearly pull the ball out of the piston socket in one flying season-it's not like we have ball socket reset tools available from Cox for the .010.... Rocket Rob got one for me but I think it was stolen in my burglary, I haven't seen it since.

If you plan to fly a .010 even as a glow engine, have a reset tool and a spare cylinder/piston assembly before starting to build the airplane. I went from thinking I had a lifetime supply of .010's to only having 3-4 years worth once the season was over last year and I had to do a teardown.
Old 02-28-2011, 11:04 AM
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Default RE: cox .010 diesel

oh i know its silly but i like tiny engines and its just one of those things that you know is silly but want anyway a diesel cox .010 is one of those things for me so i think i will keep trying as people said that the pee wee would be too delicate but it works well so this might work
Old 02-28-2011, 10:21 PM
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Default RE: cox .010 diesel

The PeeWee is a better candidate for diesel conversion because the crank doesn't have a hole thru it or a crank window for cracks to start out of.

There are tons of PeeWees to use and abuse (I refer to them as TD .020 cylinder/piston spares), but new TD .020 and .010's are getting a lot more scarce. We'll see a lift in the market in another 10-20 years when guys start passing away (it's about that time, guys from the 60's and 70's who are collectors now) that will help, but in 20 years will anyone care anymore?

We're almost at a point where 1/2A is like SAM events.
Old 03-01-2011, 07:51 AM
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Default RE: cox .010 diesel

I agree with the "fragile" prior posts. That thing is so tiny, anything beyond original design parameters will likely ruin it in short order. In addition, the motors themselves have gotten pricey and some of the parts are getting downright difficult to find.

Since I'm planning on flying mine this summer, I've been looking for a spare cylinder / piston for several weeks. So far I've seen 1 on ebay that went for almost as much as you'd pay for the whole engine on a decent deal..

Experimenting with and ruining a couple of those could get expensive in a hurry..
Old 03-01-2011, 08:45 AM
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Default RE: cox .010 diesel

yeah i saw that one go on ebay it was nip right i bib on it but never one it i also recently saw a crankcase,shaft and cab body go for 12 pouns i forgot to bid on them they went for a steal
Old 03-04-2011, 03:51 PM
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Default RE: cox .010 diesel

Hi group I have a NIB (well plastic pac) tee Dee 020 thimble drome 4.5x 2 prop Davis diesel head hand holding with just a drop on the piston it easily starts with 4 or 5 flips spring starter NOT USED Davis 1/2 a fuel might be perfect for a little guillows rubber kit martin


Have a guillows lancer kit 24" span WOW just read the box also can be powered with an 020"gas engine" they really mean glow of course
Old 03-04-2011, 04:14 PM
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dennis
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Default RE: cox .010 diesel

There were about 14 Cox 010 diesel heads made and i was lucky enough to get one. I have never run it simply becaue i didn't think the engine would live. It is a tiny thing and beautifully made. It is one of only 14 so it's as scarce as it gets since a rather large firm got a dozen of them and only 2 of them escaped.
Old 03-05-2011, 05:37 AM
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Default RE: cox .010 diesel

cool do you have pictures of it
Old 03-07-2011, 09:17 PM
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AndyW
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Default RE: cox .010 diesel

I made up a diesel head a while ago. Worked really well. I broke two precious cranks when the engine lit off. I used the spring starter. Just a brief, prime burst broke both cranks. A crying shame, that tiny engine just begs to run on stinky fuel. It might even throttle better than stock, especially with one of those Microflite throttles. And I'm not kidding about that.
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Old 03-07-2011, 09:46 PM
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Default RE: cox .010 diesel

Andy: What kind of carb did you use on your FORA .020? I was looking at your vids and didn't recognize it...
Old 03-08-2011, 12:29 AM
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Default RE: cox .010 diesel

The Fora was supplied to me by Japanman, complete with custom made carb. Truly unique in concept and function, that man is a genius. It runs really wel,, very good top end and a very good idle. I plan to make it run on stinky fuel.

Old 03-08-2011, 12:30 AM
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Default RE: cox .010 diesel

Pics of the carb to follow, it's pretty ingenious.
Old 03-08-2011, 11:49 AM
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Default RE: cox .010 diesel

wow could you build another one or was it a one off and did you make those .010 cranks because i was thinking of heat treating my one to use as a diesel did you get it to run properly on diesel

sorry for all the questions but as you can see i am seriously thinking about doing this
Old 03-08-2011, 01:06 PM
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Default RE: cox .010 diesel

AndyW just wondering do you have a youtube account as their is someone on youtube with a fora .020 based in Canada just wondering?
Old 03-08-2011, 08:16 PM
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Default RE: cox .010 diesel

Nitroairplane , yes, that is most likely AndyW`s fora you saw on youtube , its the only fora i have ever seen on there so it`s a safe bet it`s AndyW`s. check out his other youtube vids, he also seems to have a soft spot in his heart for the stinky fueled ones lol
Old 03-08-2011, 10:30 PM
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Default RE: cox .010 diesel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBnO93Utd_s


Here we have an engine that was cobbled up for my enjoyment by a good friend, on the other side of the planet.

The Fora .020 shares a similar history and fate as the VA .020 as posted here, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_wZR...e=channel_page

Both engines were created by manufacturers that produce, and have produced, outstanding, competition .049 engines.

But as with the TD .020, getting one to perform well as an RC engine, with throttle, is another matter.

But at least, in THIS case, we have one doing 20K and that's an easy 1,000 RPM over the TD or the VA.

The engine came with a head to take a NELSON plug but as I hadn't used one of those in years, I mistakenly assumed that this engine took a TURBO plug.

NOT, as they used to say.

So wrenching down a turbo into a Nelson socket promptly stripped the threads in the head. Instantly I knew that I had pulled a real boneheaded stunt.

Nothing to do but convert the head into a head clamp and adapt some Cox heads into glow plug inserts.

At first I tried .049 heads. To get enough compression ratio, most of the combustion chamber was composed of the large, cylindrical cavity that the filament resides in. That was quite inefficient, and even though the proper compression was achieved, that yielded only 17K.

So we tried some well run .020 heads and while these adapted easily, they were old and produced an engine that was very hard to start. The brief run I did get out of that plug didn't even allow enough time to get the Tach turned on.

So, we contemplated how we could adapt a Cox .010 head. This head leaves very little metal left when turning it down to adapt to this application, so we ADDED metal. Tricky, but with the help of JB Weld, we had it.

At first I was concerned that the insert we made would leave us overcompressed. The combustion chamber was, after all, meant to work on an engine half the size of this one.

But I recall that when working with the .010, it appeared that it was a bit UNDERcompressed so we pressed ahead.

The result, as can be seen, is a decent 20K on 25% Cool Power and the standard for .020s, the Cox 4.5 x 2 prop.

It was drizzling and getting dark and cold so we may have improvements to enjoy as we break it in and dial in the throttle.

Ah, the throttle. As we go smaller than .049, something changes and it gets more difficult to throttle these little beasts. This one was no exception but not for want of a good throttle design. For some reason, the video came out a bit fuzzy but the design that my friend came up with is unique bordering on brilliant. It opens up some fresh approaches to throttling that may prove useful with my other 1/4A engines.

The engine idled down to a solid 7K with good transition to 19K and settled out at 20K a second or two later. This isn't unusual but we're going to try and refine the compression ratio and open up the throttle body a bit to see if that helps. If it helps, it helps and rarely hurts.

It needs to be mentioned that a custom made, bullet proof rod and a perfectly fitting piston was provided along with some delicate work on the ports.

We learned a few things here that may prove useful on the other two .020s.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKI7tCzla74

My good friend and I discussed the results my test of his neat little engine and he expressed a bit of a let down. Of course, lots of this is my fault,,,, if I hadn't messed up the Nelson head he made,,,,,,

But all is not lost. I have a tendency to run the bigger prop but this engine was decidedly timed to spin fast and while 19K is nothing to feel bad about, (IMO) it was decided to run the recommended prop. That was the APC 4.2 x 2 and the result is an impressive, 24K plus. There's some fluctuation and we need to have a look at the possibility that the new needle I made is leaking, somehow. I do have the usual fuel tubing to seal this area.

So the new head I made from a Cox .010 plug is doing its job.

Of course what good is any engine without a throttle and that comes next.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDcXLzJ6XbY

So what good is an engine without a throttle and here, we tinkered with that aspect.

We had the idle adjustment set full rich but the idle wasn't steady and eventually flamed out. It was dying lean.

The solution would be to open up the bottom hole in the carb body but before that mechanical fix, we tried a quickie that sometimes works.

The one copper gasket was taken out and we found no leakage problems and the compression held. So with a small bit of extra compression, we needed to richen out the main needle a bit and that in turn, richened up the idle to the point where a good setting was about the middle of the range.

That did the trick. At 5K up to 24K and we got better idle with a rough transition and a bit of a loss at the top. As we watch the video, it seems that the idle screw was now set on the rich side as transition was somewhat slow. But not too rich as no smoke, spitting or sputtering was evident.

The top end sounded overcompressed so the next thing to try is less nitro.

All in all, it looks like we have a very useful engine for a micro RC plane.

This experience with the Fora has prompted me to have another look at the VA and the TD .020. It may be that running a smaller prop will give us that elusive good power along with good throttling that I crave.

Got to build some foam quickie to test all of this in the air. Neat.

+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+


The work on the Fora was not my own, but that of JapanMan, one Stephan Sharpe. We have collaborated on a few ideas,, amazingly, by phone via Skype. He lives in Japan.

What a world we live in today. Revolution in Poland and Eastern Europe because of fax technology and now,,, it's getting hot in Africa.

His skills with small engines, quite frankly, surpasses my own. His forte is timing, he can pass that Dremel stone ever so gently down the innards of a micro sized cylinder and take a cut that's bang on. What an eye. I just slap together and mix and match parts and somehow, as the laws of good engineering always takes you to a good place, most of my tinkering produces unique and acceptable results.

Included in his engine was a custom made, bullet proof rod and a custom piston with an oh so delicious fit.

I swear, if OS ever wanted to get into 1/2A and under, they ought to call Steph.

The engine, by the way, was provided to him by Larry Driskill,, another one of the good guys along with guys like "dirty" Dan Rutherford. Where ya at Dan?? Dan started the whole alternative to Cox movement over 20 years ago with the VA MK1. It was the first, affordable, mass produced, modern, AAN engine that could blow a good Cox outa the water. OR SO I'M TOLD. I've never competed so this is hearsay.

Anyway, this gem Fora is going to get a diesel head to slug a 6 x 3 on a foamy first as a test bed and then some such thing as a Guillows rubber kit conversion.

I've lost a few years, (with no regrets) due to family circumstances but I hope to again, get back on track this year. I did an inventory of projects bagged and tagged with notes,,, some 22 in all including diesel and a few gassers with one to be converted to diesel. I hope to run that last one with no ether using a hybrid, Bio-diesel batch, that includes a coconut oil blend.

Coconut oil is THE healthiest oil you can consume, especially if you use it to fry or deep fry. It has the highest "smoke" point of any oil. It's unique in being a saturated fat with none of the artery clogging characteristics that animal, saturated fats have. French Fries never tasted so good and the same goes for popcorn.

Getting a Bio-Diesel fuel out of it was much more difficult and the product to raw material ratio is less than half of other oils. But, some early tests showed it had some interesting properties that contribute to boosting cetane ratings. Along with a secret ingredient, we may have something truly unique in a fuel that's 100% organic. We'll see.

Old 03-08-2011, 10:35 PM
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AndyW
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Default RE: cox .010 diesel

Oh, yes, there were bubbles in the line and we have since traced that to a bad tank nipple, sucking air. Tricky making such tiny things, my fault, should have used brass. As an aside, the muffler is mine, adapted from a Brodak, MK1 engine.
Old 03-09-2011, 09:40 AM
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Default RE: cox .010 diesel

so it is AndyW? that fora is cool but if it is you could you get a video of the diesel .010 up as i am sure many of us would like to see it

thanks,

nitroairplane,
Old 03-09-2011, 10:36 AM
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Default RE: cox .010 diesel

The TD .010 diesel broke two, precious, expensive, hard to get cranks. It no longer exists. But it looked no different from a glow TD, just the screw and spring at the top of the plug. When I said it worked well, I meant that the head worked in adjusting compression ratio. The crank was just too fragile for diesel combustion. Two broke just from lighting off the prime.

I'm on the lookout for a crank from a specialty diesel that I can stuff into the TD. [:@]

Pictures of Steph's unique, Fora throttle, will be forthcoming.
Old 03-09-2011, 10:39 AM
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Default RE: cox .010 diesel

oh ok so it is not worthwile but could i not heat treat a crank? to see if i could get a run out of it

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