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SURE START hop ups ??

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SURE START hop ups ??

Old 10-25-2011, 11:33 AM
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SunnyFlyer09
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Default SURE START hop ups ??

I have a few never run surestarts that I bought from Cox just before they shut down. I want to get the most rpms out of these.

How about Nelson heads and plugs?

What hop up parts from Cox International would you recommend? Different clylinders and pistons?

What would your recipe be for a powerful surestart?
Old 10-25-2011, 05:06 PM
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coriolan
 
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Default RE: SURE START hop ups ??

Nelson heads and plugs would be wasted on a Surestart, by them time you replace all that need to be replaced to make it breath better you'd probably spent more than what a used "Black Widow" would cost! The "Surestart" serie were just a cheap version of what came in those plastic RTF.
Old 10-25-2011, 05:35 PM
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Default RE: SURE START hop ups ??

I bought 10 surestarts back when they were $4 each and came away with a few good runners.
The intake passage gets opened up as far as you dare drill.
The crank has the main journal polished and some material can be removed between the extreme ends of the main [load bearing] journal.
The single most important and fruit bearing mod is to shave the inside of the piston skirt until it is paper thin.
Finally, I fitted a tight fitting nylon block to the backplate that sealed off the NVA and kept it from moving in flight.
With a 4.2x4 prop, I think the best engine hit 24,000 on 25% nitro.
It ran so well that I built a little racer for it.
I use Nelson plugs exclusively because they are the most cost effective and best performing plugs out there.
Old 10-25-2011, 05:37 PM
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Default RE: SURE START hop ups ??


Two winters ago I filled my house with smoke from testing my surestart in the basement atfer each mod. Unfortunately I didn't keep records except the final one. I was getting about 20,000 rpm on a 5x3, put it on my Sureshark and it screamed! Here is what I did:

- drilled out the venturi with a 3/16" drill, smoothed the opening with an exacto
- lightened the piston by using a brass tube that fit in my 1/2" drill and held the piston, used an #11 exacto blade to skim metal out of the inside of the piston, just don't get it to thin (the piston wall)
- used a nelson head, in my opinion the easiest most reliable head for really consistent performance. There may be better but these work very well. (I don't know what is better)
- deburred the crank with tooth paste, sounds crazy but it works really well
- mine already had SPI ( sub port induction) so I did not have to shorten the piston.

When I was done this engine screamed like a strong TD .049 on 25% nitro with 20% castor. It still screams, a $6.95 engine runs as strong as a real Killer Bee (yes my wife bought 2 of them from the Ace RC catalog for me for Christmas some years ago).

In short, do the things I did on your Sure Start and you should get really good results or I will eat my hat!

Good Luck and ask if you have any questions,

Pat
Old 10-27-2011, 09:27 AM
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Default RE: SURE START hop ups ??


ORIGINAL: coriolan

Nelson heads and plugs would be wasted on a Surestart, by them time you replace all that need to be replaced to make it breath better you'd probably spent more than what a used ''Black Widow'' would cost! The ''Surestart'' serie were just a cheap version of what came in those plastic RTF.
Well 2 people just debunked your theory
Old 10-27-2011, 09:28 AM
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Default RE: SURE START hop ups ??


ORIGINAL: Honker1


Two winters ago I filled my house with smoke from testing my surestart in the basement atfer each mod. Unfortunately I didn't keep records except the final one. I was getting about 20,000 rpm on a 5x3, put it on my Sureshark and it screamed! Here is what I did:

- drilled out the venturi with a 3/16'' drill, smoothed the opening with an exacto
- lightened the piston by using a brass tube that fit in my 1/2'' drill and held the piston, used an #11 exacto blade to skim metal out of the inside of the piston, just don't get it to thin (the piston wall)
- used a nelson head, in my opinion the easiest most reliable head for really consistent performance. There may be better but these work very well. (I don't know what is better)
- deburred the crank with tooth paste, sounds crazy but it works really well
- mine already had SPI ( sub port induction) so I did not have to shorten the piston.

When I was done this engine screamed like a strong TD .049 on 25% nitro with 20% castor. It still screams, a $6.95 engine runs as strong as a real Killer Bee (yes my wife bought 2 of them from the Ace RC catalog for me for Christmas some years ago).

In short, do the things I did on your Sure Start and you should get really good results or I will eat my hat!

Good Luck and ask if you have any questions,

Pat

Guys, could you post some pics of how you did your mods pleazse, having pics would make it alot easier to understand.
Old 10-27-2011, 10:12 AM
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Default RE: SURE START hop ups ??

The old Cox engines could put up with many years of high rpm abuse just as long as you kept your eye on the ball socket and used oily fuel.
I don't think the Surestarts are engineered for the same amount of longevity. None of mine would hold a rod reset very long and they all wore out much sooner than my old engines.
Some guys might claim that they are getting lots of use from their Surestarts...but what does that mean..?
"Lots of use" for 1 guy might be a 1/2 hour's worth of run time per year.
When I flew 1/2A C/L combat, lots of use meant 1/2 hour's worth of run time 2 days per week during the flying season with a few more sessions the rest of the year to stay sharp.
Flying 1/2A RC combat, we kept 2 engines [usually .049 TDs, Big Migs, or AP.061s] running basically all day except for the time it took for pit stops, potty stops and more trips to the ice chest.
A day at the field always meant bringing a coffee can full of engines just in case.
Old 10-27-2011, 10:25 AM
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Default RE: SURE START hop ups ??


ORIGINAL: SunnyFlyer09


ORIGINAL: Honker1


Two winters ago I filled my house with smoke from testing my surestart in the basement atfer each mod. Unfortunately I didn't keep records except the final one. I was getting about 20,000 rpm on a 5x3, put it on my Sureshark and it screamed! Here is what I did:

- drilled out the venturi with a 3/16'' drill, smoothed the opening with an exacto
- lightened the piston by using a brass tube that fit in my 1/2'' drill and held the piston, used an #11 exacto blade to skim metal out of the inside of the piston, just don't get it to thin (the piston wall)
- used a nelson head, in my opinion the easiest most reliable head for really consistent performance. There may be better but these work very well. (I don't know what is better)
- deburred the crank with tooth paste, sounds crazy but it works really well
- mine already had SPI ( sub port induction) so I did not have to shorten the piston.

When I was done this engine screamed like a strong TD .049 on 25% nitro with 20% castor. It still screams, a $6.95 engine runs as strong as a real Killer Bee (yes my wife bought 2 of them from the Ace RC catalog for me for Christmas some years ago).

In short, do the things I did on your Sure Start and you should get really good results or I will eat my hat!

Good Luck and ask if you have any questions,

Pat

Guys, could you post some pics of how you did your mods pleazse, having pics would make it alot easier to understand.
Larry Driskill wrote a 2 part article for Model Aviation magazine in the late 1980s that has a lot of well illustrated advice. He explains how to make the crank turn with less friction.

Dickeybird posted a thread at this forum some years back about how to shave the piston as well as some other pointers.

There is a wealth of information between these 2 sources that is well worth the time to look up if you are really committed to learning the tricks.

A 1/2A mouse racer from Canada, Paul Gilbeaut [?] also wrote a pretty comprehensive article about 1/2A hop ups that might be accessible with a little bit of searching.

Same goes for Joe Klause of Kustom Kraftsmanship, never know what a Goggle search digs up there.
Old 10-27-2011, 11:05 AM
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Default RE: SURE START hop ups ??

Try here:

[link=http://www.xenalook.com/?id=696654&page=blogComments&blogId=117793]Paul Gibeault Mouse Racing[/link]

and here:

[link=http://www.clstunt.com/htdocs/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=82943&mesg_id=82943&page=282]Stuka Stunt Works fine tuning the COX .049[/link]

and here:

[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_688342/anchors_688342/mpage_1/key_dual%252Cbypass/anchor/tm.htm#688342]Powered by Dickeybirds Famous COX Engine[/link]
Old 10-27-2011, 12:41 PM
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SunnyFlyer09
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Default RE: SURE START hop ups ??


ORIGINAL: Andrew

Try here:

[link=http://www.xenalook.com/?id=696654&page=blogComments&blogId=117793]Paul Gibeault Mouse Racing[/link]

and here:

[link=http://www.clstunt.com/htdocs/dc/dcboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=82943&mesg_id=82943&page=282]Stuka Stunt Works fine tuning the COX .049[/link]

and here:

[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_688342/anchors_688342/mpage_1/key_dual%252Cbypass/anchor/tm.htm#688342]Powered by Dickeybirds Famous COX Engine[/link]
Good stuff ! Thanks
Old 10-28-2011, 12:31 PM
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Default RE: SURE START hop ups ??

[link=http://www.coxengines.ca/MRP.pdf]Here is[/link] an updated version of Paul Gibeault's mouse racing mods.

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