1/2 A Fuel
#77
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RE: 1/2 A Fuel
Hi all,
After read this thread, I cleaned my old cox 049 production series for a brief test . It came with white nylon U backplate. its a non SPI , dual slit port without booster slot.
I mounted a balanced winsor 6X3 prop on it ( I always balanced my prop ) and start to test it on 15% nitro VS 0% nitro homebrew fuel.
first test was Sig 15% nitro fuel which well kept in my cool dark store room for years. It starts easily, with 2-1/2 turns needle to peak it up, I tech it and I got 12000 rpm and run smoothly.
second test was homebrew fuel , contain 80% methanol from one of my friend who supply quality industrial chemical , he gave me one gallon for free. the rest of 20% I mixed with silkolene Pro KR-2 go-cart oil, which contain half ester syn. and half castor. I can run it smoothly too, but peak it with needle on less than 2 turns. I was so surprised to see that this little engine screamed at constant 13000 rpm!
Maybe its because of my Sig fuel already turn bad after stored for years, but spinning at 13000 rpm with 0% nitro and 6X3 prop seems perfect for me, ( I fly sport plane most of the time) , maybe the Pro KR-2 oil give me higher efficiency, I don't know, but it really works perfectly.
I plan to use it in one of my cox engine, and keep recording its run time and see how long the piston/ cylinder can last.
still don't know if i need to throw away my old sig fuel, ( but it starts and runs well in my cox engines too, just a little bit lower rpm) , or maybe just because of 0% nitro fuel + Pro KR2 oil can load larger 6X3 prop better than Sig oil? i don't know .
regards,
EW
After read this thread, I cleaned my old cox 049 production series for a brief test . It came with white nylon U backplate. its a non SPI , dual slit port without booster slot.
I mounted a balanced winsor 6X3 prop on it ( I always balanced my prop ) and start to test it on 15% nitro VS 0% nitro homebrew fuel.
first test was Sig 15% nitro fuel which well kept in my cool dark store room for years. It starts easily, with 2-1/2 turns needle to peak it up, I tech it and I got 12000 rpm and run smoothly.
second test was homebrew fuel , contain 80% methanol from one of my friend who supply quality industrial chemical , he gave me one gallon for free. the rest of 20% I mixed with silkolene Pro KR-2 go-cart oil, which contain half ester syn. and half castor. I can run it smoothly too, but peak it with needle on less than 2 turns. I was so surprised to see that this little engine screamed at constant 13000 rpm!
Maybe its because of my Sig fuel already turn bad after stored for years, but spinning at 13000 rpm with 0% nitro and 6X3 prop seems perfect for me, ( I fly sport plane most of the time) , maybe the Pro KR-2 oil give me higher efficiency, I don't know, but it really works perfectly.
I plan to use it in one of my cox engine, and keep recording its run time and see how long the piston/ cylinder can last.
still don't know if i need to throw away my old sig fuel, ( but it starts and runs well in my cox engines too, just a little bit lower rpm) , or maybe just because of 0% nitro fuel + Pro KR2 oil can load larger 6X3 prop better than Sig oil? i don't know .
regards,
EW
#78
My Feedback: (12)
RE: 1/2 A Fuel
ORIGINAL: rcguy59
Makes your jet seem cheap, huh?
Makes your jet seem cheap, huh?
#79
Senior Member
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RE: 1/2 A Fuel
tru168.....12,000 with a 6x3 seems kind of low....but I've got worn out TDs that will turn only 12,000 with 15% fuel, The same fuel that I have seen make other engines scream. So, check your 15% fuel in a different engine that you already know very well how fast it should run.
I am surprised to hear that 0% ran so well compared with your 15% fuel, that is pretty funny.
I am surprised to hear that 0% ran so well compared with your 15% fuel, that is pretty funny.
#80
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RE: 1/2 A Fuel
I never liked the way any stock Cox .049 I ever owned ran on less than 15%. The fact that tru's engine ran better on 0% makes me pretty suspicious of the other fuel. Goes against common sense otherwise.
#81
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RE: 1/2 A Fuel
ORIGINAL: airwolf81
well the fuel is cheaper for jets then model boats. Boat fuel for me is like $40 dollars a gallon and we use 10 gallons on a weekend and for the jet is definitely cheaper until you have a failure in the air and crash then its expensive ;-)
ORIGINAL: rcguy59
Makes your jet seem cheap, huh?
Makes your jet seem cheap, huh?
#82
My Feedback: (12)
RE: 1/2 A Fuel
we have tried it before and it worked well but loss just a bit of power. we machine out heads our of brass set the bowl volume and squish velocity, intake and exhaust timing and put a 15cc Macs 1394 with a 1 inch lead and they will produce alot of power heres a video of Joe and I testing my Twin Hydro.. we have CMB 1.01RS cube motors on our boats..
http://youtu.be/LlIoXy2AhwA
http://youtu.be/LlIoXy2AhwA
#83
RE: 1/2 A Fuel
MJD: I never liked the way any stock Cox .049 I ever owned ran on less than 15%. The fact that tru's engine ran better on 0% makes me pretty suspicious of the other fuel. Goes against common sense otherwise.
#84
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
RE: 1/2 A Fuel
ORIGINAL: airwolf81
we have tried it before and it worked well but loss just a bit of power. we machine out heads our of brass set the bowl volume and squish velocity, intake and exhaust timing and put a 15cc Macs 1394 with a 1 inch lead and they will produce alot of power heres a video of Joe and I testing my Twin Hydro.. we have CMB 1.01RS cube motors on our boats..
http://youtu.be/LlIoXy2AhwA
we have tried it before and it worked well but loss just a bit of power. we machine out heads our of brass set the bowl volume and squish velocity, intake and exhaust timing and put a 15cc Macs 1394 with a 1 inch lead and they will produce alot of power heres a video of Joe and I testing my Twin Hydro.. we have CMB 1.01RS cube motors on our boats..
http://youtu.be/LlIoXy2AhwA
No matter WHAT you guys choose to burn, you will reach limits that you ultimately get tired of. In the meantime you are flushing money down the toilet [with no possible reward] that might become useful someday for you and your family.
#85
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
RE: 1/2 A Fuel
[youtube][/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy_JM...G7PvspskjQLq9A
This is a Cox TD .049 running on either 10 or 12% nitro. The engine itself is a junker well past it's prime made up with what are probably the last Cox pieces I'll ever own.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yy_JM...G7PvspskjQLq9A
This is a Cox TD .049 running on either 10 or 12% nitro. The engine itself is a junker well past it's prime made up with what are probably the last Cox pieces I'll ever own.
#86
RE: 1/2 A Fuel
combatpigg: Japanese cars and the Mercedes seemed to have already raised the bar during this time, also. Detroit tossed in hardened valve seats and tougher valves to withstand unleaded fuel and higher temps ...but as fas as I know [I'm just a hotrodder] there is no improvement in quality of any of the other moving parts. In fact, some of the earlier forged cranks and rods are more desirable with the engine guys.
Improving carburetor efficiency and later switching to fuel injection eliminated so much raw fuel washing past the piston rings and diluting the oil in the crankcase. Raising the normal operating temp was also a big step forward after some years where it was a step backwards.
That is fascinating work you were involved with...! What a great career field that is.
#87
My Feedback: (12)
RE: 1/2 A Fuel
ORIGINAL: combatpigg
So if you got good results with fuel that costs 1/8th of what you are burning now...what's the use..?
No matter WHAT you guys choose to burn, you will reach limits that you ultimately get tired of. In the meantime you are flushing money down the toilet [with no possible reward] that might become useful someday for you and your family.
ORIGINAL: airwolf81
we have tried it before and it worked well but loss just a bit of power. we machine out heads our of brass set the bowl volume and squish velocity, intake and exhaust timing and put a 15cc Macs 1394 with a 1 inch lead and they will produce alot of power heres a video of Joe and I testing my Twin Hydro.. we have CMB 1.01RS cube motors on our boats..
http://youtu.be/LlIoXy2AhwA
we have tried it before and it worked well but loss just a bit of power. we machine out heads our of brass set the bowl volume and squish velocity, intake and exhaust timing and put a 15cc Macs 1394 with a 1 inch lead and they will produce alot of power heres a video of Joe and I testing my Twin Hydro.. we have CMB 1.01RS cube motors on our boats..
http://youtu.be/LlIoXy2AhwA
No matter WHAT you guys choose to burn, you will reach limits that you ultimately get tired of. In the meantime you are flushing money down the toilet [with no possible reward] that might become useful someday for you and your family.
It worked well but not the best.. we only run when we compete in national events thats maybe 4 times a year. The level of competition is great so we need all the power we can get out of our setup.. so i only run my boats only when im going to heat race thats it..
#88
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
RE: 1/2 A Fuel
ORIGINAL: GallopingGhostler
As a hot rodder, you were more intimate with the issues because of practical experience. One thing I did observe with the smaller Japanese engines and the Falcon's in line six is that after 60,000 - 75,000 miles, their cylinders showed significant wear, a good size ridge where the uppermost piston ring travel ended, especially in the 2 inner most cylinders.
As a hot rodder, you were more intimate with the issues because of practical experience. One thing I did observe with the smaller Japanese engines and the Falcon's in line six is that after 60,000 - 75,000 miles, their cylinders showed significant wear, a good size ridge where the uppermost piston ring travel ended, especially in the 2 inner most cylinders.
The Ford 6 had mixture distribution trouble due to poor design. If the air / fuel charge doesn't burn completely, then it washes away protective oil and leads to early parts failure. They created a very complex "thermactor" system to alleviate the problem and it worked very well until it broke down. Once it broke down it became such a difficult and expensive system to replace that it wasn't feasible to work on.
#89
Senior Member
My Feedback: (3)
RE: 1/2 A Fuel
ORIGINAL: airwolf81
It worked well but not the best.. we only run when we compete in national events thats maybe 4 times a year. The level of competition is great so we need all the power we can get out of our setup.. so i only run my boats only when im going to heat race thats it..
ORIGINAL: combatpigg
So if you got good results with fuel that costs 1/8th of what you are burning now...what's the use..?
No matter WHAT you guys choose to burn, you will reach limits that you ultimately get tired of. In the meantime you are flushing money down the toilet [with no possible reward] that might become useful someday for you and your family.
ORIGINAL: airwolf81
we have tried it before and it worked well but loss just a bit of power. we machine out heads our of brass set the bowl volume and squish velocity, intake and exhaust timing and put a 15cc Macs 1394 with a 1 inch lead and they will produce alot of power heres a video of Joe and I testing my Twin Hydro.. we have CMB 1.01RS cube motors on our boats..
http://youtu.be/LlIoXy2AhwA
we have tried it before and it worked well but loss just a bit of power. we machine out heads our of brass set the bowl volume and squish velocity, intake and exhaust timing and put a 15cc Macs 1394 with a 1 inch lead and they will produce alot of power heres a video of Joe and I testing my Twin Hydro.. we have CMB 1.01RS cube motors on our boats..
http://youtu.be/LlIoXy2AhwA
No matter WHAT you guys choose to burn, you will reach limits that you ultimately get tired of. In the meantime you are flushing money down the toilet [with no possible reward] that might become useful someday for you and your family.
It worked well but not the best.. we only run when we compete in national events thats maybe 4 times a year. The level of competition is great so we need all the power we can get out of our setup.. so i only run my boats only when im going to heat race thats it..
If you need to come here to "brag" about the stupid amount of money you spend on racing RC hydroplanes...maybe it's time to take a step back to see what you really are throwing your [hard earned???] money at.
#90
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RE: 1/2 A Fuel
Hi guys,
I ran my OS 15FP with my old Sig 15% fuel just now. You guys are right, it shows lost of power slightly. my Sig fuel degraded after years of storage.
Since I'm happy with my home brew fuel, I will try to continue running it in my cox engines, and I will keep watching the mechanical wear and see if syn + castor Silkolene Pro KR2 can really serve cox engines well.
I ran my OS 15FP with my old Sig 15% fuel just now. You guys are right, it shows lost of power slightly. my Sig fuel degraded after years of storage.
Since I'm happy with my home brew fuel, I will try to continue running it in my cox engines, and I will keep watching the mechanical wear and see if syn + castor Silkolene Pro KR2 can really serve cox engines well.
#92
RE: 1/2 A Fuel
tru168: I ran my OS 15FP with my old Sig 15% fuel just now. You guys are right, it shows lost of power slightly. my Sig fuel degraded after years of storage. Since I'm happy with my home brew fuel, I will try to continue running it in my cox engines, and I will keep watching the mechanical wear and see if syn + castor Silkolene Pro KR2 can really serve cox engines well.
#94
RE: 1/2 A Fuel
I've got 2 quart bottles of the stuff to burn, but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it. So far what I gather from the inputs: 1) Don't run the engines lean; 2) Don't load up the engine to the point it is overheating (i.e., don't run a larger diameter prop than recommended and there is adequate cooling airflow around the engine); 3) Adding a couple percent Castor oil provides additional prophylaxis; 4) Don't use it in in a competition situation with plain bearing engines without Castor (unusually high RPM's, very small diameter props, i.e., non-sport flying).
The crankshaft, piston pin and crank boss are lubricated from the incoming yet to be burnt air fuel/oil mixture. Running the engine cool and not in lean condition allows the oil to make those places. Others seem to have success with it on plain bearing, so I am willing to gamble. Anyway, as in any situation, YMMV.
The crankshaft, piston pin and crank boss are lubricated from the incoming yet to be burnt air fuel/oil mixture. Running the engine cool and not in lean condition allows the oil to make those places. Others seem to have success with it on plain bearing, so I am willing to gamble. Anyway, as in any situation, YMMV.
#95
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RE: 1/2 A Fuel
hi GallopingGhostler ,
I'm using the Sig fuel as test run or break in fuel now. Just broken-in a babe bee with new piston/ cylinder. Since I'm a sport RC flyer, I don't mind using it in my 1/2A planes with limited power.
cheers,
tru168
I'm using the Sig fuel as test run or break in fuel now. Just broken-in a babe bee with new piston/ cylinder. Since I'm a sport RC flyer, I don't mind using it in my 1/2A planes with limited power.
cheers,
tru168
#96
RE: 1/2 A Fuel
tru, I was referring to the O'Donnell 30% nitro heli fuel that I recently purchased. In RCGroups, someone had posted that one could add Klotz BeNOL Racing Castor Oil, available at some motorcycle and automotive parts departments. I checked here locally, and it appears to be a special order item. One quart of that would be good to add to provide additional protection to plain bearing legacy steel liner engines. With additional Castor, might provide a cost effective alternative to other fuels.
If I used the non-Castor over a long period may net quicker wear on the older engines, but for now, for a shorter time period, can't imagine I'd do that much damage.
If I used the non-Castor over a long period may net quicker wear on the older engines, but for now, for a shorter time period, can't imagine I'd do that much damage.
#97
RE: 1/2 A Fuel
combatpigg The Ford 6 had mixture distribution trouble due to poor design. If the air / fuel charge doesn't burn completely, then it washes away protective oil and leads to early parts failure. They created a very complex ''thermactor'' system to alleviate the problem and it worked very well until it broke down. Once it broke down it became such a difficult and expensive system to replace that it wasn't feasible to work on.
I'd think that any mixture problems needed to be dealt with prior to leaving the exhaust valve. It wasn't until the advent of feedback control systems, a computer controlled carburetor that the problem of stoichiometric efficiency was achieved, as carburetors were averaging devices. Chrysler Corporation was one of the first to successfully achieve EPA compliance with a computer in the early 1980's. A special computer controlled valve replaced the carburetor's power valve.
I'm glad our model planes were not mandated for air injection into the exhaust stream by EPA, to say nonetheless.
#98
RE: 1/2 A Fuel
ORIGINAL: tru168: I'm using the Sig fuel as test run or break in fuel now. Just broken-in a babe bee with new piston/ cylinder. Since I'm a sport RC flyer, I don't mind using it in my 1/2A planes with limited power.
This Fuji engine is unique in that it is a true ABC engine, albeit a baffle piston one. Since I don't have a tach, can't give performance figures, but the engine ran strong.
#99
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RE: 1/2 A Fuel
hi GallopingGhostler ,
Thanks for sharing. That"s a beautiful engine you have. Good 1/2A engines are hard to find now. I just purchased Morgan cool power 30% heli fuel, I'm searching for castor oil now and will add a little castor into it and see if it can be good 1/2A fuel.
Thanks for sharing. That"s a beautiful engine you have. Good 1/2A engines are hard to find now. I just purchased Morgan cool power 30% heli fuel, I'm searching for castor oil now and will add a little castor into it and see if it can be good 1/2A fuel.