Off-topic: Am I wrong here?
03-08-2013, 07:17 AM
#26
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RE: Off-topic: Am I wrong here?
All of this could have been avoided if you opened a dispute with Ebay/paypal as soon as you discovered there was an issue. They would have immediately taken the full payment from the seller and held it (like Escrow) until the situation was resolved. Now it is too late but keep this in mind for the future. Of course you were being the gentleman in all of this but like the saying goes "nice guys finish last". The seller has the full responsibility to get the money back but unless the shipment was insured the shipping company will not return the funds no matter who is at fault. The USPS (or any shipper) is not obligated to refund any money for a lost/damaged shipment unless there is insurance on it. Sometimes there is a certain amount of insurance on every package regardless of wether you added insurance or not but you would need to check with the shipping company first. No matter, the receiver is never the one who files the claims. UPS or USPS will not allow the receiver to even find out anything about the order other then tracking info. The shipper needs to handle all of that. It does not matter what country is at fault as I have had several international packages lost but USPS handled the claims every time. In the Future, if you have not received your order within 30 days, OPEN A ITEM NOT RECEIVED CLAIM with Ebay or Paypal. They will side with the buyer almost every time unless the seller can provide proof of delivery (signature verification) - MD
03-08-2013, 08:06 AM
#27
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RE: Off-topic: Am I wrong here?
Since this is neither the sellers fault or your fault, maybe you can talk the seller in to splitting the shipping cost 50/50?
03-08-2013, 08:14 AM
#28
RE: Off-topic: Am I wrong here?
ORIGINAL: harlanb
Since this is neither the sellers fault or your fault, maybe you can talk the seller in to splitting the shipping cost 50/50?
Since this is neither the sellers fault or your fault, maybe you can talk the seller in to splitting the shipping cost 50/50?
03-08-2013, 09:19 AM
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RE: Off-topic: Am I wrong here?
Muttdog said it "All of this could have been avoided if you opened a dispute with Ebay/paypal as soon as you discovered there was an issue. They would have immediately taken the full payment from the seller and held it (like Escrow) until the situation was resolved."
I was taken by what appeared to be a legit computer web site some years ago for hundreds of dollars. Contacted PayPal/ Billmelater and was refuned all.
As for the mail system there is way to many places to get messed up by, courier to courier, office to office, customs for international it all adds up. These days USPS delivers for Fedex and UPS. These trucks back up to the USPS docks and unload these days and times. I know this for fact wife has 26 yrs in USPS.
I was taken by what appeared to be a legit computer web site some years ago for hundreds of dollars. Contacted PayPal/ Billmelater and was refuned all.
As for the mail system there is way to many places to get messed up by, courier to courier, office to office, customs for international it all adds up. These days USPS delivers for Fedex and UPS. These trucks back up to the USPS docks and unload these days and times. I know this for fact wife has 26 yrs in USPS.
03-08-2013, 09:50 AM
#30
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RE: Off-topic: Am I wrong here?
SBS, since it was your country's shipping that messed it up, you should seek damages from them as they are the responsible party. If they can't help you, it doesn't become the seller's problem. It's between you and the shipper.
BTW, eBay and Paypal $ U C K. They have become useful only to buyers and corporate sellers. The individual seller, upon which they built their business, has no say in policy any more.
BTW, eBay and Paypal $ U C K. They have become useful only to buyers and corporate sellers. The individual seller, upon which they built their business, has no say in policy any more.
03-08-2013, 01:35 PM
#31
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RE: Off-topic: Am I wrong here?
International shipping is a lot more reliable when you use one of the global parcel services like UPS or Fedex.
But they cost a lot more for an individual customer.
I don't know how much the shipping was, probably about $50 for a small package.
So now you have 4 parties involved - seller, buyer, USPS, your postal service.
There may or may not be an international agreement, when you walk into your US postal office, they will not help you and o nothing but
tell you that the foreign postal service is at fault. Same will happen on your end.
You will waste a lot of time and energy to get a solution from any of those guys. It's probably their fault, given the address was spelled correctly on the shipping label if not, it's the seller's fault. USPS only get's the package to it's destination country, they couldn't verify the address.
Kind of reminds me on the time when I was traveling a lot and occasionally had some suitcase destroyed by the luggage handlers. You get to stay in line and fill out long forms and learn what's all not covered and it's probably your fault, they are paying for the wheels or handles...
So most people don't bother even filing a claim. Airlines keep the payments and damage rating low this way.
So yes, your best option would be asking the seller if he would split the costs.
Just keep in mind that the same thing could happen again.
But they cost a lot more for an individual customer.
I don't know how much the shipping was, probably about $50 for a small package.
So now you have 4 parties involved - seller, buyer, USPS, your postal service.
There may or may not be an international agreement, when you walk into your US postal office, they will not help you and o nothing but
tell you that the foreign postal service is at fault. Same will happen on your end.
You will waste a lot of time and energy to get a solution from any of those guys. It's probably their fault, given the address was spelled correctly on the shipping label if not, it's the seller's fault. USPS only get's the package to it's destination country, they couldn't verify the address.
Kind of reminds me on the time when I was traveling a lot and occasionally had some suitcase destroyed by the luggage handlers. You get to stay in line and fill out long forms and learn what's all not covered and it's probably your fault, they are paying for the wheels or handles...
So most people don't bother even filing a claim. Airlines keep the payments and damage rating low this way.
So yes, your best option would be asking the seller if he would split the costs.
Just keep in mind that the same thing could happen again.
03-08-2013, 04:05 PM
#32
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RE: Off-topic: Am I wrong here?
A lot of you guys have given good analyses of the case and kind advice to me. I thank you very much - you have given me a lot food for thoughts.
Just to straighten a few things out:
The seller is a company, not an individual. I don't know if it's a 1, 10 or 100 men operation, and I can't see how that matters in a discussion of the limit of the liability to get a refund for a shipment gone wrong.
It it not a 1/2A-wing, that's why i wrote "Off topic" in the topic-header. The reason I posted in this forum is that it's here I feel most at home and I know I can discuss things open-minded and with respect for each other here. It's sad to notice how that postive tone almost vanished when this topic got up at RCU-heartbeat on the frontpage, but I'm glad to see there are still some nice people trying to discuss in a civil tone.
Some of you say I'm the one to blame because the mistake was made in my country. To me it's quite an over-simplified way to see it, but please elaborate WHY you think so and explain when you would say the responsibility changes from the seller to me. At his post office? At US border? At any reloading station at any transit country? At my countrys border? Or perhaps at my doorstep when I sign the receipt? (Well, you've already ruled out the last option...) And just how should I, as a receiver, proceed in a process against any shipping company, considered I don't even have a receipt for the shipment? All I have is a tracking number, emailed from the seller, which don't even tell who (or to which adress) the package is destined. But please keep a civil tone in your answers. I haven't asked for any pity. I haven't exposed the seller and I haven't written which plane the wing is for so the seller might be deducted. Neither have I given the seller any negative feedback. All I have done is to ask for advice and for second opinion in a matter that is new to me, so I don't feel any harsh words is called for.
Many of you say that I should just forget about the whole thing, because no matter who is to blame there sure aint going to be any refund from any shipping company. I'm getting more and more inclined to follow this advise, so now I'm just hoping I will at least get the money back for the wing. But for any future purchases from the US: is it correct to summarize the discussion that it's not worth it to pay any extra to get a tracking number for a parcel, I should either go all the way for a full insured FedEx alternative, or take my chances with the cheapest shipping available and be prepared that it might never show up?
I have learnt a lot, both from the issue with the seller and from this discussion. It's a lesson I could do without, but it is better (and a lot cheaper) to have it over a replacement wing instead of the plane of my dreams.
Thank you once again for taking your time and explaining the american view of the matter. Next time I hope I will be back with a more pleasant topic, perhaps a flight report of a Zaunkönig (a 16" bipe) that's on my building board.
/Stefan
Just to straighten a few things out:
The seller is a company, not an individual. I don't know if it's a 1, 10 or 100 men operation, and I can't see how that matters in a discussion of the limit of the liability to get a refund for a shipment gone wrong.
It it not a 1/2A-wing, that's why i wrote "Off topic" in the topic-header. The reason I posted in this forum is that it's here I feel most at home and I know I can discuss things open-minded and with respect for each other here. It's sad to notice how that postive tone almost vanished when this topic got up at RCU-heartbeat on the frontpage, but I'm glad to see there are still some nice people trying to discuss in a civil tone.
Some of you say I'm the one to blame because the mistake was made in my country. To me it's quite an over-simplified way to see it, but please elaborate WHY you think so and explain when you would say the responsibility changes from the seller to me. At his post office? At US border? At any reloading station at any transit country? At my countrys border? Or perhaps at my doorstep when I sign the receipt? (Well, you've already ruled out the last option...) And just how should I, as a receiver, proceed in a process against any shipping company, considered I don't even have a receipt for the shipment? All I have is a tracking number, emailed from the seller, which don't even tell who (or to which adress) the package is destined. But please keep a civil tone in your answers. I haven't asked for any pity. I haven't exposed the seller and I haven't written which plane the wing is for so the seller might be deducted. Neither have I given the seller any negative feedback. All I have done is to ask for advice and for second opinion in a matter that is new to me, so I don't feel any harsh words is called for.
Many of you say that I should just forget about the whole thing, because no matter who is to blame there sure aint going to be any refund from any shipping company. I'm getting more and more inclined to follow this advise, so now I'm just hoping I will at least get the money back for the wing. But for any future purchases from the US: is it correct to summarize the discussion that it's not worth it to pay any extra to get a tracking number for a parcel, I should either go all the way for a full insured FedEx alternative, or take my chances with the cheapest shipping available and be prepared that it might never show up?
I have learnt a lot, both from the issue with the seller and from this discussion. It's a lesson I could do without, but it is better (and a lot cheaper) to have it over a replacement wing instead of the plane of my dreams.
Thank you once again for taking your time and explaining the american view of the matter. Next time I hope I will be back with a more pleasant topic, perhaps a flight report of a Zaunkönig (a 16" bipe) that's on my building board.
/Stefan
03-08-2013, 04:29 PM
#33
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RE: Off-topic: Am I wrong here?
There is a descrepancy in your bold-faced logic.
eBay is, essentially, an escrow service.
Not, simply,us-and-them. But, rather a mitigated transaction.
eBay acts, as a third party, on behalf of the buyer and the seller.
I know I'mclaiming REALLY!!!!!!!!!!! bigconcepts for your comprehension.
But, SBS_Pilot is the grown-up in this thread.....
eBay is, essentially, an escrow service.
Not, simply,us-and-them. But, rather a mitigated transaction.
eBay acts, as a third party, on behalf of the buyer and the seller.
I know I'mclaiming REALLY!!!!!!!!!!! bigconcepts for your comprehension.
But, SBS_Pilot is the grown-up in this thread.....
ORIGINAL: RCFlyerDan
It is YOUR Governments' mail system and the system in which you live, so therefore it is your system. The package was shipped one government to another government's mail system. The USA mail system did get it to your mail system, so they DID provide the service. And, yes, it is not common practice to go back to the Post Office to ask for a refund. After all, they did do their job getting it to your country's government mail system. The Buyer always pays shipping, even from a retail store here in the USA. I know you will say, "Some ads advertise Free shipping"; Well, the buyer is still agreeing to the final price of the item, and the seller always figures it into the total price of the sale for what he needs for the item.
I also see that we are in the 1/2A stuff, so I am sure the wing wasn't expensive or the shipping. What do you think the seller is making on this wing for all of his efforts to fill out the extra forms? His time going to the P.O. to ship it twice? IF it had sold here in the States, the seller wouldn't even have this headache, and I am almost certain, even without knowing the seller, he will never sell outside the USA again.
ORIGINAL: SBS_Pilot
And it is mot MY mail system, it is US Mail who chose to use them, it is US Mail who has accepted the delivery WITH a tracking number and sign-on-receipt, and I would say it is therefor US Mail who is responsible for refunding the seller when their service wasn't fulfilled. How they choose to charge the Swedish Post System really is out of my hands.
#3. No, it is not the sellers fault the package never arrived to me, but I still feel the seller should at least try to reclaim the shipping cost from US Mail
ORIGINAL: RCFlyerDan
#1. When I sell on EBay, I make it very clear that I am NOT responsible for ''other countries mail system''. Some aren't as good as the USA. So, your mail system messed up, you get the money from them.
#2. Yes, too drastic! After all, he was willing to ship the wing back to you at your shipping cost. The USA mail system got it to Sweden. Sweden's mail system mess up.
#3 He has offered to refund for the wing or send it. That is 100% reliability to me. Again! NOT his fault that YOUR mail system screwed up!
#4. You are the reason that a LOT of guys won't sell International from the USA. Belly up to the bar, take the shipping hit, and if you don't want the wing, take his refund of the wing minus shipping. He did his job by getting it to Sweden the first time! Again, YOUR Country screwed up!!
I am also sure that you wanted the cheapest shipping, due to not wanting to spend the extra to have it shipped by a commercial carrier, such as UPS, FedEX, DHL, and probably even on your own airline counter to counter.
#1. When I sell on EBay, I make it very clear that I am NOT responsible for ''other countries mail system''. Some aren't as good as the USA. So, your mail system messed up, you get the money from them.
#2. Yes, too drastic! After all, he was willing to ship the wing back to you at your shipping cost. The USA mail system got it to Sweden. Sweden's mail system mess up.
#3 He has offered to refund for the wing or send it. That is 100% reliability to me. Again! NOT his fault that YOUR mail system screwed up!
#4. You are the reason that a LOT of guys won't sell International from the USA. Belly up to the bar, take the shipping hit, and if you don't want the wing, take his refund of the wing minus shipping. He did his job by getting it to Sweden the first time! Again, YOUR Country screwed up!!
I am also sure that you wanted the cheapest shipping, due to not wanting to spend the extra to have it shipped by a commercial carrier, such as UPS, FedEX, DHL, and probably even on your own airline counter to counter.
#3. No, it is not the sellers fault the package never arrived to me, but I still feel the seller should at least try to reclaim the shipping cost from US Mail
I also see that we are in the 1/2A stuff, so I am sure the wing wasn't expensive or the shipping. What do you think the seller is making on this wing for all of his efforts to fill out the extra forms? His time going to the P.O. to ship it twice? IF it had sold here in the States, the seller wouldn't even have this headache, and I am almost certain, even without knowing the seller, he will never sell outside the USA again.
03-08-2013, 05:29 PM
#34
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RE: Off-topic: Am I wrong here?
If you want to build your own:
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...rop_resize.jpg
I had one many years ago, it's a simple plane, with some balsa you can just build your own wing.
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...rop_resize.jpg
I had one many years ago, it's a simple plane, with some balsa you can just build your own wing.
03-08-2013, 10:01 PM
#35
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RE: Off-topic: Am I wrong here?
ORIGINAL: SBS_Pilot
............. Thank you once again for taking your time and explaining the american view of the matter. ..........
/Stefan
............. Thank you once again for taking your time and explaining the american view of the matter. ..........
/Stefan
Stefan
First: There is no single “American view” of the matter and you seem to be implying that we “Americans” need to explain why we supposedly act less honorably than a Swede would under these circumstances. You are skating on thin ice here. (I’m sure this expression translates well in Sweden)
Second: I believe the shipper has the responsibility to get a refund and get you the part you ordered. Period. Buyers have no ability to file a claim. That’s part of doing business. Sometimes things go wrong.
Third: I envy your command of a second language.
Eric
03-08-2013, 10:49 PM
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RE: Off-topic: Am I wrong here?
ORIGINAL: Muttdog
All of this could have been avoided if you opened a dispute with Ebay/paypal as soon as you discovered there was an issue. They would have immediately taken the full payment from the seller and held it (like Escrow) until the situation was resolved. Now it is too late but keep this in mind for the future. Of course you were being the gentleman in all of this but like the saying goes "nice guys finish last". The seller has the full responsibility to get the money backbut unless the shipment was insured the shipping companywill not return the funds no matter who is at fault. The USPS (or any shipper) is not obligated to refund any money for a lost/damaged shipment unless there is insurance on it. Sometimes there is a certain amount of insurance on every package regardless of wether you added insurance or not but you would need to check with the shipping company first. No matter, the receiver is never the one who files the claims. UPS or USPS will not allow the receiver to even find out anything about the order other then tracking info. The shipper needs to handle all of that. It does not matter what country is at fault as I have had several international packages lost but USPS handled the claims every time. In the Future, if you have not received your order within 30 days, OPEN A ITEM NOT RECEIVED CLAIM with Ebay or Paypal. They will side with the buyer almost every time unless the seller can provide proof of delivery (signature verification) - MD
All of this could have been avoided if you opened a dispute with Ebay/paypal as soon as you discovered there was an issue. They would have immediately taken the full payment from the seller and held it (like Escrow) until the situation was resolved. Now it is too late but keep this in mind for the future. Of course you were being the gentleman in all of this but like the saying goes "nice guys finish last". The seller has the full responsibility to get the money backbut unless the shipment was insured the shipping companywill not return the funds no matter who is at fault. The USPS (or any shipper) is not obligated to refund any money for a lost/damaged shipment unless there is insurance on it. Sometimes there is a certain amount of insurance on every package regardless of wether you added insurance or not but you would need to check with the shipping company first. No matter, the receiver is never the one who files the claims. UPS or USPS will not allow the receiver to even find out anything about the order other then tracking info. The shipper needs to handle all of that. It does not matter what country is at fault as I have had several international packages lost but USPS handled the claims every time. In the Future, if you have not received your order within 30 days, OPEN A ITEM NOT RECEIVED CLAIM with Ebay or Paypal. They will side with the buyer almost every time unless the seller can provide proof of delivery (signature verification) - MD
03-08-2013, 10:54 PM
#37
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RE: Off-topic: Am I wrong here?
ORIGINAL: OliverJacob
International shipping is a lot more reliable when you use one of the global parcel services like UPS or Fedex.
But they cost a lot more for an individual customer.
I don't know how much the shipping was, probably about $50 for a small package.
So now you have 4 parties involved - seller, buyer, USPS, your postal service.
There may or may not be an international agreement, when you walk into your US postal office, they will not help you and o nothing but
tell you that the foreign postal service is at fault. Same will happen on your end.
You will waste a lot of time and energy to get a solution from any of those guys. It's probably their fault, given the address was spelled correctly on the shipping label if not, it's the seller's fault. USPS only get's the package to it's destination country, they couldn't verify the address.
Kind of reminds me on the time when I was traveling a lot and occasionally had some suitcase destroyed by the luggage handlers. You get to stay in line and fill out long forms and learn what's all not covered and it's probably your fault, they are paying for the wheels or handles...
So most people don't bother even filing a claim. Airlines keep the payments and damage rating low this way.
So yes, your best option would be asking the seller if he would split the costs.
Just keep in mind that the same thing could happen again.
International shipping is a lot more reliable when you use one of the global parcel services like UPS or Fedex.
But they cost a lot more for an individual customer.
I don't know how much the shipping was, probably about $50 for a small package.
So now you have 4 parties involved - seller, buyer, USPS, your postal service.
There may or may not be an international agreement, when you walk into your US postal office, they will not help you and o nothing but
tell you that the foreign postal service is at fault. Same will happen on your end.
You will waste a lot of time and energy to get a solution from any of those guys. It's probably their fault, given the address was spelled correctly on the shipping label if not, it's the seller's fault. USPS only get's the package to it's destination country, they couldn't verify the address.
Kind of reminds me on the time when I was traveling a lot and occasionally had some suitcase destroyed by the luggage handlers. You get to stay in line and fill out long forms and learn what's all not covered and it's probably your fault, they are paying for the wheels or handles...
So most people don't bother even filing a claim. Airlines keep the payments and damage rating low this way.
So yes, your best option would be asking the seller if he would split the costs.
Just keep in mind that the same thing could happen again.
So maybe anyone selling a product overseas or anywhere for that matter, should include it in their shipping policy that the buyer should be prepared to possibly pay shipping fees multiple times ?
It should not have happened in the first place, no matter who is at fault.
03-08-2013, 10:59 PM
#38
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RE: Off-topic: Am I wrong here?
ORIGINAL: edh13
Stefan
First: There is no single “American view” of the matter and you seem to be implying that we “Americans” need to explain why we supposedly act less honorably than a Swede would under these circumstances. You are skating on thin ice here. (I’m sure this expression translates well in Sweden)
Second: I believe the shipper has the responsibility to get a refund and get you the part you ordered. Period. Buyers have no ability to file a claim. That’s part of doing business. Sometimes things go wrong.
Third: I envy your command of a second language.
Eric
ORIGINAL: SBS_Pilot
............. Thank you once again for taking your time and explaining the american view of the matter. ..........
/Stefan
............. Thank you once again for taking your time and explaining the american view of the matter. ..........
/Stefan
Stefan
First: There is no single “American view” of the matter and you seem to be implying that we “Americans” need to explain why we supposedly act less honorably than a Swede would under these circumstances. You are skating on thin ice here. (I’m sure this expression translates well in Sweden)
Second: I believe the shipper has the responsibility to get a refund and get you the part you ordered. Period. Buyers have no ability to file a claim. That’s part of doing business. Sometimes things go wrong.
Third: I envy your command of a second language.
Eric
Don't believe me just think of that woman that spilled a McDonalds hot coffee on her crotch... she sued for millions and WON !!
03-08-2013, 11:14 PM
#39
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RE: Off-topic: Am I wrong here?
As a seller, you should accept all responsibilities of assuring the package gets to the buyer... PERIOD.
As the buyer, you pay and wait to accept your goods... PERIOD
It's really quite simple if you think about it.
The seller should always insure the items he ships...PERIOD.
Take this into consideration while calculating shipping costs.
I hear everyone complain about paypal always siding with the buyer. Of course they do, the buyerfulfills his end of the agreement the second he or she hits the submit payment button. The rest is up to the seller. Now if the seller doesn't want the risk of losing in a paypal dispute he should insure the shipmentregardlessof whether the buyer wanted it or not. SIMPLE. We could call it the price of doing business.
03-09-2013, 03:45 AM
#40
RE: Off-topic: Am I wrong here?
ORIGINAL: SBS_Pilot
A lot of you guys have given good analyses of the case and kind advice to me. I thank you very much - you have given me a lot food for thoughts.
Just to straighten a few things out:
Some of you say I'm the one to blame because the mistake was made in my country. To me it's quite an over-simplified way to see it, but please elaborate WHY you think so and explain when you would say the responsibility changes from the seller to me. At his post office? At US border? At any reloading station at any transit country? At my countrys border? Or perhaps at my doorstep when I sign the receipt? (Well, you've already ruled out the last option...) And just how should I, as a receiver, proceed in a process against any shipping company, considered I don't even have a receipt for the shipment? All I have is a tracking number, emailed from the seller, which don't even tell who (or to which adress) the package is destined. But please keep a civil tone in your answers. I haven't asked for any pity. I haven't exposed the seller and I haven't written which plane the wing is for so the seller might be deducted. Neither have I given the seller any negative feedback. All I have done is to ask for advice and for second opinion in a matter that is new to me, so I don't feel any harsh words is called for.
Many of you say that I should just forget about the whole thing, because no matter who is to blame there sure aint going to be any refund from any shipping company. I'm getting more and more inclined to follow this advise, so now I'm just hoping I will at least get the money back for the wing. But for any future purchases from the US: is it correct to summarize the discussion that it's not worth it to pay any extra to get a tracking number for a parcel, I should either go all the way for a full insured FedEx alternative, or take my chances with the cheapest shipping available and be prepared that it might never show up?
/Stefan
A lot of you guys have given good analyses of the case and kind advice to me. I thank you very much - you have given me a lot food for thoughts.
Just to straighten a few things out:
Some of you say I'm the one to blame because the mistake was made in my country. To me it's quite an over-simplified way to see it, but please elaborate WHY you think so and explain when you would say the responsibility changes from the seller to me. At his post office? At US border? At any reloading station at any transit country? At my countrys border? Or perhaps at my doorstep when I sign the receipt? (Well, you've already ruled out the last option...) And just how should I, as a receiver, proceed in a process against any shipping company, considered I don't even have a receipt for the shipment? All I have is a tracking number, emailed from the seller, which don't even tell who (or to which adress) the package is destined. But please keep a civil tone in your answers. I haven't asked for any pity. I haven't exposed the seller and I haven't written which plane the wing is for so the seller might be deducted. Neither have I given the seller any negative feedback. All I have done is to ask for advice and for second opinion in a matter that is new to me, so I don't feel any harsh words is called for.
Many of you say that I should just forget about the whole thing, because no matter who is to blame there sure aint going to be any refund from any shipping company. I'm getting more and more inclined to follow this advise, so now I'm just hoping I will at least get the money back for the wing. But for any future purchases from the US: is it correct to summarize the discussion that it's not worth it to pay any extra to get a tracking number for a parcel, I should either go all the way for a full insured FedEx alternative, or take my chances with the cheapest shipping available and be prepared that it might never show up?
/Stefan
I know that I came on very strong, but I don't understand why you don't comprehend one government's mail system to another government's mail system. We all know it isn't a problem with EBay or PayPal. This is a good thing, and understood. For some reason in Sweden, Sweden's Customs or Sweden's Government Postal system, the package was deemed undeliverable to you. I have had an issue where a buyer didn't have the correct address on either EBay or PayPal, and the package was returned to me. The buyer then updated his addresses on both, and paid the shipping again. I sent it back to him with no issues. I also had another time, where I didn't copy an address correct and shipped to a buyer, and was returned to me. This time it was my fault, due to not coping the address correct off of PayPal. Please make sure your address is correct on both sites. If it is, then asked the seller what address he shipped it to to see if he copied it wrong. Sweden does use letters that are different from ours. If he did, and your accounts are up to date and correct, then he should pay shipping again. We all make mistakes. As many have said, and I think MuttDog hit the nail on the head by saying that if the package wasn't insured, the USPS will not refund money for a package that wasn't deliverable in the system. Period! Not sure why you can't comprehend this concept? Wish you well.
03-09-2013, 08:31 AM
#41
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RE: Off-topic: Am I wrong here?
Wahoo, that is a pointless statement. 'It should not have happened in the first place' , yes, but it did. And of course it might happen again.
No one knows why that mistake happened yet, so it may or may not be the same the next time.
Well, there is probably a reason most private seller on e-Bay don't ship international.
Not worth the risk in most cases.
No one knows why that mistake happened yet, so it may or may not be the same the next time.
Well, there is probably a reason most private seller on e-Bay don't ship international.
Not worth the risk in most cases.
03-09-2013, 08:57 AM
#42
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RE: Off-topic: Am I wrong here?
When you read it, you will find the statement that it was too late to file a claim with paypal.
They would have refunded all his money, but the time to file had expired after it became clear the package wouldn't arrive.
Insurance is a good thing to have, but they wouldn't pay because the pacakge wasn't lost or damaged, it came back to the shipper.
They sure don't cover that.
And for the 'simple' part - it seems like buyer and seller have not made any mistakes. So it would be wrong to make either one responsible.
Just saying 'your postal system screwed up, therefore it's your fault' is totaly wrong and irrelevant.
There are contracts between the postal services and Ithe postal office where the package was send from would be the place to go.
Of course they will blame the foreign postal service and don't want to deal with it, but they'd be the ones to handle that claim.
The seller has entered into a contract with his postal service - he took the package there and paid for the transport, the buyer has no control over this, no matter where he lives.
They would have refunded all his money, but the time to file had expired after it became clear the package wouldn't arrive.
Insurance is a good thing to have, but they wouldn't pay because the pacakge wasn't lost or damaged, it came back to the shipper.
They sure don't cover that.
And for the 'simple' part - it seems like buyer and seller have not made any mistakes. So it would be wrong to make either one responsible.
Just saying 'your postal system screwed up, therefore it's your fault' is totaly wrong and irrelevant.
There are contracts between the postal services and Ithe postal office where the package was send from would be the place to go.
Of course they will blame the foreign postal service and don't want to deal with it, but they'd be the ones to handle that claim.
The seller has entered into a contract with his postal service - he took the package there and paid for the transport, the buyer has no control over this, no matter where he lives.
03-09-2013, 09:11 AM
#43
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RE: Off-topic: Am I wrong here?
I guess my point is......
If the buyers info is/was correct on both ebay and paypal then I don't see why he should/would be required to pay shipping fee's again no matter where he resides.
Furthermore, even if the seller got all that info correct on the package, it is still HIS responsibility to assure the buyer gets what he pays for. Jumping through hoops, filling out forms and filing claims with any or all shippers involved might be part of the price he has to pay for doing business.
A reputable dealer would not need to have a dispute filed against him to force him to do the right thing.
Any one who thinks that a buyer should "suck it up" and just pay again for any goods or services they did not receive needs their heads examined. The seller is the one who makes the profit and should therefore "eat it".
If the buyers info is/was correct on both ebay and paypal then I don't see why he should/would be required to pay shipping fee's again no matter where he resides.
Furthermore, even if the seller got all that info correct on the package, it is still HIS responsibility to assure the buyer gets what he pays for. Jumping through hoops, filling out forms and filing claims with any or all shippers involved might be part of the price he has to pay for doing business.
A reputable dealer would not need to have a dispute filed against him to force him to do the right thing.
Any one who thinks that a buyer should "suck it up" and just pay again for any goods or services they did not receive needs their heads examined. The seller is the one who makes the profit and should therefore "eat it".
03-09-2013, 09:33 AM
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RE: Off-topic: Am I wrong here?
Agree. The buyer is the least to blame if the information he provided was correct.
The foreign postal service is likely at fault, but they are a subcontractor to the seller.
So the US postal service needs to handle the issue as the main contractor for this shipping agreement.
To make things right, the seller should be filing the claim or bite the bullet and pay for shipping again.
The foreign postal service is likely at fault, but they are a subcontractor to the seller.
So the US postal service needs to handle the issue as the main contractor for this shipping agreement.
To make things right, the seller should be filing the claim or bite the bullet and pay for shipping again.
03-09-2013, 09:34 AM
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RE: Off-topic: Am I wrong here?
ORIGINAL: OliverJacob
Agree. The buyer is the least to blame if the information he provided was correct.
The foreign postal service is likely at fault, but they are a subcontractor to the seller.
So the US postal service needs to handle the issue as the main contractor for this shipping agreement.
To make things right, the seller should be filing the claim or bite the bullet and pay for shipping again.
Agree. The buyer is the least to blame if the information he provided was correct.
The foreign postal service is likely at fault, but they are a subcontractor to the seller.
So the US postal service needs to handle the issue as the main contractor for this shipping agreement.
To make things right, the seller should be filing the claim or bite the bullet and pay for shipping again.
..
03-09-2013, 04:24 PM
#47
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RE: Off-topic: Am I wrong here?
ORIGINAL: edh13
Stefan
First: There is no single “American view” of the matter and you seem to be implying that we “Americans” need to explain why we supposedly act less honorably than a Swede would under these circumstances. You are skating on thin ice here. (I’m sure this expression translates well in Sweden)
ORIGINAL: SBS_Pilot
............. Thank you once again for taking your time and explaining the american view of the matter. ..........
/Stefan
............. Thank you once again for taking your time and explaining the american view of the matter. ..........
/Stefan
Stefan
First: There is no single “American view” of the matter and you seem to be implying that we “Americans” need to explain why we supposedly act less honorably than a Swede would under these circumstances. You are skating on thin ice here. (I’m sure this expression translates well in Sweden)
I'm sorry, that was a bad choice of words and I was too tired to realize that the sentence could be interpreted in that way. When I wrote it I was thinking of my original question if there might be a difference in business culture that could explain why the seller took his position. It's mostly Americans who have posted in this thread and given their different opinions, thats why I wrote 'American view' without any comparison or judgement intended.
Oh, and thank you for your kind compliment in your third note.
ORIGINAL: OliverJacob
If you want to build your own:
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...rop_resize.jpg
I had one many years ago, it's a simple plane, with some balsa you can just build your own wing.
If you want to build your own:
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a1...rop_resize.jpg
I had one many years ago, it's a simple plane, with some balsa you can just build your own wing.
I think this thread could be closed now. I have got different perspectives and analysises (hmm, is that a valid English word for analysis in plural?) and to me that's more important than getting consensus. Maybe I will get my money back and maybe I won't, but in any case I'm a valuable lesson richer.
Thank you once again for taking your time to post your perspectives and analysises.
/Stefan
03-09-2013, 06:38 PM
#48
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RE: Off-topic: Am I wrong here?
Great,
thanks for the link. I will find out how much the shipping will be...hope I won't have the same problems as you did.
The language is not a problem since I am german
thanks for the link. I will find out how much the shipping will be...hope I won't have the same problems as you did.
The language is not a problem since I am german
03-10-2013, 09:34 PM
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RE: Off-topic: Am I wrong here?
OK, as mentioned this is off topic. I missed it up to now but it's time to close it now. Besides I think all the questions have been answered.
