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  1. #1

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    .020 Peewee and TEE DEE refurbs!!!!

    Am restoring a couple of .020 PEE WEE'S and a couple of TD's also. Which is the preferred reed material for the PEE WEE? I have seen 2 types of these reeds: Mylar and Copper. Are there other types of reeds? Which type is considered the "hotter" one? (if there is such a thing) Secondly: Is there any difference between the plastic carb body and the the aluminum body on the TEE DEE .020? Thanks.
    Steve Westphal

  2. #2

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    RE: .020 Peewee and TEE DEE refurbs!!!!

    Teflon reeds and stainless reeds are also available-though not necessarily from the major suppliers. Some say the mylar are best-I 'd suggest getting as many different types as you can and trying them-it's not as if they're expensive.

    The metal TD 020 carb housing doesn't crank or split...........but of course is not an OEM part. [the standard one will split around the venturi threads if over tightened, and along the side if the front collet ring is over tightened -over the years I've managed to do both from time to time.]

    ChrisM
    'ffkiwi'

  3. #3
    skaliwag's Avatar
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    RE: .020 Peewee and TEE DEE refurbs!!!!

    Doubtful that you will split the aluminum or strip the thread as you can on the plastic one
    Real Airplanes have Round Engines and Two Wings.

  4. #4
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    RE: .020 Peewee and TEE DEE refurbs!!!!

    I have a plastic .020 I got off the bay. Didn't check closely enough, it is cracked as described. Is there a fix, or should I use it for parts?
    I might not be very good, but I'm fun to watch!

  5. #5

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    RE: .020 Peewee and TEE DEE refurbs!!!!

    Assuming you are referring to the TD 020 and not the Pee Wee 020, then it is simply a case of buying a new carb housing-and now you have a choice of the OEM style plastic type or the alternative aftermarket metal one (albeit at about twice the price!). Replacement however will require you to fully strip the engine-and you'll need the 020 spanner to do this. It is virtually impossible to repair a cracked carb housing on the two smallest TDs-definitely so if it is an axial crack along the crankshaft axis, (caused by overtightening the front collet)- if it is the venturi spigot threaded portion that is split, sometimes it is possible to do a thread wrap or use a metal collar around the outside to close the split-but it is a very fiddly job on these small ones. On the larger 049,09 and 15s a metal collar around the outside of the venturi spigot usually works. Nothing works on an axial split..............

    The plastic and metal carb housings are available from at least three sources on Ebay.

    ChrisM
    'ffkiwi'

  6. #6
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    RE: .020 Peewee and TEE DEE refurbs!!!!

    Thanx, invaluable info! It's a TD and yes, an axial split from over tightening the carb.
    I might not be very good, but I'm fun to watch!

  7. #7

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    RE: .020 Peewee and TEE DEE refurbs!!!!

    MECOA are currently producing plastic parts for TDs and Medallions-carb housings, tanks. Whether the material is the same as Cox used I'm not sure. As some of us know-the TD 010 and 020 tanks do not age well, and warp, distort and crack with time-not to mention the fuel feed nipple breaking-so it is good to have a source of replacements!
    As well Cox International and Ex Model engines are selling TD plastic carb housings-but it is unclear to me whether they are residual OEM Cox parts, or new production [not that that matters except to purists!] as well as the metal 010, 020, 049 and 09 carb housings-as does 'ridenfligh' on Ebay. [I believe the latter vendor is the guy who had the CNC metal ones produced originally] (I just wish he'd do a run of TD 15 ones again!)

    ChrisM
    'ffkiwi'


    added in edit-well that upload worked-still not clear Eddie C whether your crack is along the crankshaft axis or in the venturi spigot-the causes are different for each-the solution the same. See diagram.[I don't have CAD-but its amazing what you can do in Powerpoint with a bit of effort] Either crack will stop the engine running properly-and in this size not really practical to repair-certainly for the crankshaft axis split. As I indicated earlier in the bigger sizes you can sometimes fix the venturi spigot split with tubing, a steel ring or a tightly wrapped kevlar thread binding and epoxy. Forget cyano-nitro dissolves it remember!
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  8. #8
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    RE: .020 Peewee and TEE DEE refurbs!!!!

    Thanx again, Chris. 
    Mine is split vertically along the venturi. It wasn't evident until the venturi was removed, then a visible gap can be seen on the inside. 
    I've looked at all the 'bay vendors items and am assessing each to determine the most likely one. I have to order other items from Mecoa for a Kavan 50cc twin, so may order everything together. 
    My TD .020 has the backplate mount and is bound for a Guillow's 20" Cub. The smallest tank I can find is a 1 oz from Tower, but the Mecoa .3 oz. may work so will check it out. A .020 on 1 oz. would probably run 30-minutes plus! Lol
    Oddly, I had considered the repair you mention (kevlar thread/epoxy) when the crack was discovered, as I've used that technique on other items. Thanx for confirming it. 
    I might not be very good, but I'm fun to watch!

  9. #9
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    RE: .020 Peewee and TEE DEE refurbs!!!!

    Have you thought about using an olde style C/L tank. I have made them from .005 brass shim. Violent aerobatics won't be part of the envelope for an 020 powered Cubbie.
    Real Airplanes have Round Engines and Two Wings.

  10. #10

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    RE: .020 Peewee and TEE DEE refurbs!!!!


    ORIGINAL: eddieC

    Thanx, invaluable info! It's a TD and yes, an axial split from over tightening the carb.
    You don't have to buy new parts.

    TD .020's don't have a carb. Coat the threads of the venturi with VERY SMALL amount of silicone selant, screw it in untill it lightly seats, then wrap the outside of the venturi housing with fine wire top to bottom and coat w/epoxy. It will run just like new.

    Pardon any spelling errors.

    Rrragman
    \"Half a bee, philosophically, must ipso facto half not be. But half the bee has got to be, vis-*-vis its entity - d\'\'you see?

  11. #11

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    RE: .020 Peewee and TEE DEE refurbs!!!!


    ORIGINAL: eddieC

    Mine is split vertically along the venturi. It wasn't evident until the venturi was removed, then a visible gap can be seen on the inside.*
    Cub. The smallest tank I can find is a 1 oz from Tower, but the Mecoa .3 oz. may work so will check it out. A .020 on 1 oz. would probably run 30-minutes plus! Oddly, I had considered the repair you mention (kevlar thread/epoxy) when the crack was discovered, as I've used that technique on other items. Thanx for confirming it.*

    Eddie-its one of the flaws with the Cox TD design setup-to avoid the entire NVA rotating you need it done up good and tight-and that's only a small snid away from splitting it. Obviously either split will let air in where you don't want it-and at best they become impossible to needle or won't run at all! If you have the front collet ring done up too tight the plastic housing will either split along the crankshaft axis or distort at the rear where it seals against the crankcase front-once again you can't win! The problem is the plastic is pretty much impervious to any form of glue-even epoxy doesn't grip well, so you can't just glue over the crack. I suppose-in theory at least-you could ultrasonically weld an axial split-but how many modellers have access to that sort of equipment? And for the daring-you could try melting the crack together with the tip of a soldering iron-but there's not a lot of space to get at it, nor a lot of wall thickness. The venturi spigot can be done-as I've mentioned-but its awfully fiddly to do-and you have to make a very neat wrap, cover it with epoxy, without getting it anywhere else-and still ensure no airleaks! A $9 replacement from Mecoa saves a lot of aggravation. By the way I've just checked the Ex Model Engines and Cox International websites-and they both are listing only the metal TD 020 carb housing-so I guess they have run out of the original plastic bits. I also note that Mecoa are doing them in both red and black in all the TD sizes-including the 09 and 15!-which should give rise to a bit of head scratching in the future as I'm sure Cox never did the TD 020 in black, and never did the TD 09 and 15 in red........

    On the issue of tanks, check out the Cox International site-they have some suitable metal tanks which would work (they look to my eye to be the same as the old 'Perfect' brand rectanks). One largely unexploited source-available to anyone who keeps their eyes on the footpath......sorry-for you US types....the sidewalk....is the caps off 'yuppy' water bottles and energy drink bottles-the clear cylindrical cap bit that covers the valve part you actually drink from. I guess these are polypropylene-and thousands must be discarded every day. All you need is access to a lathe to make a closure-ideally with a flange quite a bit wider than the open end of the cap, so you can mount it. You have a choice of making it a 'snap' fit in the cap (you'll need to machine a slight groove for the projecting ring on the inside of the cap to fit into) or you can hold the whole thing together with a single central screw through the centre of the cap into the 'base' piece you've just turned up. I use delrin for the closures, but there's no reason you couldn't use aluminium.

    A quick scrabble in my odds'n sods bin throws up at least 3 sizes: 20mmID x 16mm deep giving a volume of 5cc, 22mm ID x 20mm deep giving 7.6cc, and 29mm ID x 20mm deep giving 13.2cc or in your money-about 1/5 oz, 1/4 oz and 1/2oz.....and I wouldn't be at all surprised to find other sizes out there. The largest one I mentioned would probably meet your needs.......
    So for a little bit of work you can have some very cheap tanks covering a range of uses. And the principle can be extended-women's hair colouring kits (at least the ones my wife uses!) have several useful containers and caps that can be easily adapted.

    ChrisM
    'ffkiwi'

  12. #12

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    RE: .020 Peewee and TEE DEE refurbs!!!!


    ORIGINAL: rrragmanliam

    TD .020's don't have a carb. Coat the threads of the venturi with VERY SMALL amount of silicone selant, screw it in untill it lightly seats, then wrap the outside of the venturi housing with fine wire top to bottom and coat w/epoxy. It will run just like new.

    Pardon any spelling errors.

    Rrragman
    Personally-given the size of the jet holes in the 020 venturi-I wouldn't want silicone sealant coming anywhere near them-and for this method to work, you'd have to have enough silicone sealant to fully cover the threads-and it will invariably be forced out -upwards as well as outwards-as you screw the venturi in..........

    ChrisM
    'ffkiwi'

  13. #13
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    RE: .020 Peewee and TEE DEE refurbs!!!!

    The tanks are the old Perfect tanks. I believe Bernie gets them from Brodak.
    Real Airplanes have Round Engines and Two Wings.

  14. #14
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    RE: .020 Peewee and TEE DEE refurbs!!!!

    I've used kevlar thread and epoxy very successfully on .049s. Haven't tried on a TD.020 though. A bit small and fiddly.

    Not sure if it the TD housings are ABS or what, but it is surface-active. It's possible that after a through degreasing in methanol or IPA, the fracture line could be solvent welded with methylene chloride, then a mechanical overwrap. But the thread/epoxy method, while it does not bond aggressively to the plastic, does create a mechanical support and seal the gap at the same time and I think it is more than sufficient.

    Balloon tanks work well - ages ago I posted a thread showing how to make one by making fittings from the top of a Visine bottle, but there are many ways to skin the cat. Water balloons are small and light. A Visine bottle also makes a decent tank body.

    Texas timers sells the nicest small silicone tubing I've had my hands on, there are a couple of small sizes that are good to have in the spares department if yer a small engine fan. Also assorted handy little fittings, and .049 radial mounts, and.. Useful stuff
    Sorry I'm late dear, I had to help my uncle Jack off his horse.

  15. #15
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    RE: .020 Peewee and TEE DEE refurbs!!!!

    See if a pic. will work yet. I make a sleeve for my plastic carb housing on the TD .049's. They split and crack from tightening and crashes. I think the new housings that are being made have a little bump behind for extra strength making it more desireable IMHO than the older original ones for the .049 anyway. I glued mine on with CA, but the high nitro may affect it eventually.
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    Glow Head Hood # 7

  16. #16

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    RE: .020 Peewee and TEE DEE refurbs!!!!

    ORIGINAL: ffkiwi
    Personally-given the size of the jet holes in the 020 venturi-I wouldn't want silicone sealant coming anywhere near them-and for this method to work, you'd have to have enough silicone sealant to fully cover the threads-and it will invariably be forced out -upwards as well as outwards-as you screw the venturi in..........

    ChrisM
    'ffkiwi'
    Have you ever tried it Chris? Personaly I have and it works. If your "theory" were true then you would be using way too much silicone. You keep thinking about it bud while I make the repair and go flying.

    Darren
    \"Half a bee, philosophically, must ipso facto half not be. But half the bee has got to be, vis-*-vis its entity - d\'\'you see?

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    RE: .020 Peewee and TEE DEE refurbs!!!!


    ORIGINAL: ffkiwi
    to avoid the entire NVA rotating you need it done up good and tight-and that's only a small snid away from splitting it. ChrisM
    'ffkiwi'
    Wrong. Again a small amount of silicone on the threads acts like a thead locker. Do it this way and you dont have to over tighten.
    Darren
    \"Half a bee, philosophically, must ipso facto half not be. But half the bee has got to be, vis-*-vis its entity - d\'\'you see?

  18. #18

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    RE: .020 Peewee and TEE DEE refurbs!!!!

    How many TD 020s do you have-and how long have you been using them-rragmanliam-I have nine-all in models and I'll go by my 40 years of experience with them........

    ChrisM
    (owner and user of lots of TDs-not just 020s....)

  19. #19

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    RE: .020 Peewee and TEE DEE refurbs!!!!

    ORIGINAL: ffkiwi

    How many TD 020s do you have-and how long have you been using them-rragmanliam-I have nine-all in models and I'll go by my 40 years of experience with them........

    ChrisM
    (owner and user of lots of TDs-not just 020s....)
    Right now not as many as I used to. TD's 3 .010's, 1 .020, 5 or 6 .049's and 1 .09 , 10 or so Pee wees, Black Widows, Killer Bees and Sure Starts. All I'm saying is the method I've described works and you would't know because you've never tried it. It's only recently that comany's like Cox Inernational and others are now making the venturi body and it's just easier to buy one. A decade ago if you couldn't find one on Ebay or your LHS you repaired it. Buy the way I've never craked one myself because I don't tighten the s**t of the parts. I have however picked up used engines with the aformentioned cracks and made the repair.

    How long? Well I'm 50 and got my first cox CL airplane when I was 8. I've been dinkin with them ever since. I'm sure you can do the math.

    Darren



    \"Half a bee, philosophically, must ipso facto half not be. But half the bee has got to be, vis-*-vis its entity - d\'\'you see?

  20. #20

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    RE: .020 Peewee and TEE DEE refurbs!!!!

    I'd call that a draw then-we both started at the same age-I've got a few more years on you. I got my first TD 020 in 1971 or 1972 from AHC-I wanted an 010-but an 020 was what they sent me. And I didn't say that your method wouldn't work-merely that I personally wouldn't use it. I have used silicone sealant around the tank backplate on TD020s to cure persistent leaks in the past-I wouldn't dream of letting it anywhere the venturi though.

    Equally it's possible that your idea of silicone sealant and mine are quite different materials............

    ChrisM
    'ffkiwi'

  21. #21
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    RE: .020 Peewee and TEE DEE refurbs!!!!

    I'm a lightweight in the TD department around here.. 3 .049's (1 KK), 6-7 .010's - 1 original NIB - but sadly no TD .020's, just Pee Wees, and no .09 or .15's. I have run and flown TD .020's, just not my own. Sweet engine.
    Sorry I'm late dear, I had to help my uncle Jack off his horse.


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