"1/2 A" & "1/8 A" airplanes These are the small ones...more popular now than ever.

Cox 09

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Old 09-23-2013, 02:23 PM
  #1
andybenton
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Default Cox 09

Not sure if a 09 is still considered half A but I thought I'd try here first even if the engine is. Little big, you fellows seem to know a fair bit about cox engines.

im not entirely sure which engine I have but it's a carborated 09 with a nice muffler/tuned pipe/ exhaust collector on it. The case is black and it turns freely with seemingly good pinch at Tdc it also has a head on it that accepts a standard style glo plug.
any help identifying the engine would be nice, I'll get some pics by request

also I'm excited about. Building my first balsa plane, but I'm not sure what size plane would work well for this engine. I've looked around and I really like the ace Mach none, but it's recommended for a 049 to an 051, and I'm really looking for a home for the 09 not another home for one of my 049s.
I'm hoping someone can either help me to scale up the Mach none or to help me find a similar model, or just some other options for my little 09

thanks a lot
andy
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Old 09-23-2013, 04:07 PM
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Andy --
Go here: http://www.mh-aerotools.de/airfoils/index.htm

and choose COX engines from the menu on the LHS. There will be pictures available --- you will likely want to look thru the Medallions and Tee Dees.

Small world --- I'm from down the road a bit in Murray. Usually, I sign my posts as andrew, but am known to most folks around here as andy.
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Old 09-23-2013, 04:37 PM
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Awesome! This is my first go at scratch building and cox engines, I was given several bunt grandfather and haven't flown any of them yet, all 049s most of them sure starts.ive got pics of the 09 and now I just need a few carb parts and a model to fly it on. And to figure out how to post pics from my iPhone
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Old 09-23-2013, 04:51 PM
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Also, awesome link for sure mine is a teedee 09. Now I'm missing the high speed needle. Aside from that tho, she is complete. I think I can get the hsn from the cox international sight. Right now, I'm preoccupied looking at Mach nones I've got a soft spot for this aircraft haha
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Old 09-23-2013, 09:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andybenton View Post
Now I'm missing the high speed needle. Aside from that tho, she is complete. I think I can get the hsn from the cox international sight. Right now, I'm preoccupied looking at Mach nones.
You have a fairly rare engine and may or may not want to fly it. Another good source for COX parts is EX Model Engines. Matt is located in the US and carries many of the parts found at COX International. You can also email him --- he may have some single parts not listed on his site.

The Mach None or Pacer both would be a good choice for the .09. They were designed for the TD .049, but I think were a little large for that engine. Dave Fritzke's site has free downloadable plans for the Pacer and Mach None.
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Old 09-23-2013, 10:51 PM
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Well I cleaned it up nicely now. Thanks for the link, I'll contact him for some parts. I mostly fly electric anymore, there's no clubs or fields around here that are nitro friendly so the plane will be a shelf queen mostly, only flown seldomly...

i had had no clue this engine was rare. I paid 40 bucks and got 9 assorted cox engines. 4 teedee .010s. Two 049s one with a pull start and one with a deisel head, one medallion 09 one teedee 09 and a newer sure start. My local hobby shop was getting rid of a "lot" of them and I was in the right place at the right time I guess. The 10s don't appear to have ever been ran, the medallion 09 is locked up and missing its piston, and the teedee 09 was just dusty and gummy and lacking the high speed needle... The sure start is complete and the deisel headed 049 is complete also. The pull start is just barely there missing most of its parts.



i also in my collection have several more sure starts, a golden anodized 049 that's on a power pod for my gentle lady. And a 051 in my light machines 110 heli.

i guess I just have a thing for these tiny engines. Thanks for all your help, when I start on the Mach none I'll be sure to do a build thread, just for giggles I think ill do it up as a 4 channel. With a built up wing. I've got the PDF for the plans now. And there's a good sake on balsa down at the lhs also. (He's getting out if rc) so I guess I may as well buy it all as a lot also. Starting to get rather excited.


any idea as to what that 09 teedee is worth?
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Old 09-23-2013, 11:05 PM
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Old 09-24-2013, 02:55 AM
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That's an 09 RC, and of coarse you should use it. Life is too short to put things on a shelf...
Here are a few models for comparison, from the left; .05 RC, .09 RC and a .09 Medallion with the optional exhaust throttle;

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Old 09-24-2013, 05:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andybenton View Post
Well I cleaned it up nicely now.............

any idea as to what that 09 teedee is worth?
It did clean up well --- you did a excellent job. You may want to look at another forum that's dedicated to COX engines and the members are a friendly and knowledgeable bunch.

COX Engine Forum
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Old 09-24-2013, 06:26 AM
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I see that the 09 shown has a glow plug head. Is that an after market add on.

I am pretty sure the one I had came with the std Cox integral element head. I tried the conversion but the rev loss was significant.
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Old 09-24-2013, 06:54 AM
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Most of the RC engines from cox all came with a regular style glow plug (e.g. the .09RC and the queen been etc). I guess they might be after a hotter glowplug to aid the idle. The powerloss is indeed significant, and it is better to use a turbo plug as these can also be had in a hotter type.
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Old 09-24-2013, 07:18 AM
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Thanks again for the info on the cox forums, I'll defiantly sign up over there.
and just for good measure, I tried using fuel to clean of ld the old castor, and it was working, but very slow, the entire engine was coated in it, so I took it all the way down, and I remembered reading that hopped #9 for guns would clean it easily, so I have it a try and it worked fantasticly, I just made sure not to use it any thing plastic

J dunker- yes it's a regular glow head, I did see some options on a few websites for a cox style all in one glow head

mr cox- I'm supposing it would be advantageous to look for the hottest plug I can reliably run in it?

Any one want to make a prop recommendation? Considering it has the glow head I'm guesing something like a 7x3?

Thanks a a thousand times over for the help, saved me a lot of heartache and time googling

Last edited by andybenton; 09-24-2013 at 07:21 AM.
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Old 09-24-2013, 08:36 PM
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If you build a small, clean plane for it you could try a 6x4 prop and expect to see 100+ mph runs.
Lightness also plays a big part in a total speed package..but you really need to think small [and thin] to see big results.
A Mach None is actually too much plane for any of the recommended engines to haul it like it's a futuristic "prop-jet" and give it unlimited vertical lines.. if this gives you an idea.
Your expectations aren't clear, but as a "default" just about any sport plane designed for this size engine will zoom around OK with a 7x3 prop.
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Old 09-24-2013, 09:29 PM
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Combatpigg, sorry if I was unclear but I was wanting to confirm that a 7x3 would be enough prop for leisurely flight with the 09 in a Mach none. I'm not terribly concerned with "unlimited verticals", or high speeds. Just a casual weekender here. More directly and more accurately I wanted to ensure that this combo would be fine for lazy type flight and still give me a respectable climb rate for situations where it may be nessicary.

i don't have a terribly large area to take off in, and need the plane to get to altitude realitivley my quickly, but all of my parkzone planes do it just fine, and most people I talk to find then to be a bit anemic.

sorry again if I was unclear in my intentions, sometimes I don't think to explain myself fully, which can lead to less than desirable out comes.

its looking like it may be a bit before I get to really put any effort into this as I as informed today that my great uncle, and my step uncle both had massive heart attacks. (Both on mothers side) and she's requested my presence in Florida for a few weeks.
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Old 09-25-2013, 05:29 AM
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Sorry about the family health issues. I wouldn't use a 7-3" on that motor, because it is somewhat of a collectors thing, and the cranks are weak (I think) It would be hard to replace. A 7-4 is kid of standard for an .09 for putting around anyway.
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Old 09-25-2013, 09:17 AM
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The Mach None flies quite well on a TD .049/.051. I've built a few, and more than one using old full size radio gear. Well built and using current gear, I'd go for .049 size powerplant. They also glide very well, so keeping things light is nice. Have fun, great plane that I always enjoyed. I usually ran 5 1/4-4 or 6x3 props. Scott
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Old 09-25-2013, 01:56 PM
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Andy, sorry to read about your Uncles' heart attacks. Hopefully they pull through and all will be decent.

As for your batch of engines you hit the motherlode. You said above that you got FOUR TeeDee .010's in this batch of stuff. Each of those is worth from $70 to $120 per engine depending on condition. So the price you paid was pretty much a gift price for you.

With a regular size Mach None or even if you blow it up by 15% to suit the .09 there will be nothing at all calm about how it flies. The performance of the TeeDee .09 will see to that. Cox may have sold these engines with a throttle attached but as I recall the "idle" was a bit of a joke. And I've seen enough reports about extremely poor throttle transitions on any RC Tee Dee engine around here to realize that these are engines best used as "pedal to the metal" options with the carb as more of a cutoff on demand sort of control.

In any event bolt that sucka' to a block of wood and ground run it to get an idea of what it performs like before you consider sticking it into a plane.
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Old 09-25-2013, 08:28 PM
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First and foremost thank you for the condolences, so far both are stable, however both were major and both suffered damage. We're waiting for further info...

on to the mother load lol. I had a feeling I was doing well with this deal. The owner of the shop isn't interested in continuing with rc anymore and liquidated his inventory of any and all things rc. I was just I. The right place at the right time. I miss identified the .010s. 2 are tee dees, with the large plastic red tank. The other two are baby bees I suppose and have the red anodized tanks. Unfortunately I am lacking on fuel at the moment and only had some home brew 20 percent nitro and what I remember to be something like 16-18 percent castor oil, but I did get one of the baby bees running. Ran well considering the poor little thing was turning a 4x3 on 20 percent nitro!

Thanks for the info on the 09 performance, I suppose I'll continue looking for a plane to suit the engine. Although I may very well still put her on the Mach none and just be happy. As soon I get the parts I'll bench test. Gotta dig up a tach. And some more props.

As as for the tens. I'm thinking about a nice scratchbuilt glider design. There's a lot going on for linear servos now, and I think if would be a really nice project to cobble something together for one.

the two 049s will find their respective homes soon also, I've got an old glider that I don't have an id on, but it takes a standard 049, as for the pull start model, I've got a set of plans for a shovel nose hydro that is just begging for 1/2a glow power. (Boats are my other weakness)

thanks again best reguards
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Old 09-26-2013, 07:28 AM
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Sounds like your .010's are actually .020's. .010's only had plastic tanks, red for original, black for the later re-release. The PeeWee .020 did have a red anodized tank (and also plain aluminum depending on era), and the TD .020 has a red plastic tank.

Here is a website with a wealth of historical info and images of Cox engines: http://www.mh-aerotools.de/airfoils/cox_frameset.htm

I like the idea of the .09 on a Mach None. A TD .049 does fly them "fine", but one man's fine might be another man's "dang, it needs more power". The Cox standard prop for the .09 is the 7x3.5, so a 7x3 is a good choice for medium speeds and lots of pull, whereas a 7x4 may pull the rpm down a bit from where you want it. For a 1/2A size model a 6x4 should be a great choice, not sure of the vertical as compared to the 7x3. Try 'em both.

The website above should have power curves for all. You'll see where max power is developed on these, and don't hesitate to run them there so long as you use decent fuel with oil percent 20-23% and plenty of that castor. Don't bog them down with too much prop.
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Old 09-26-2013, 10:27 AM
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Your right, I got out my calipers and did some measuring, there's two pee wees and two Tee dee 020s bummer, but still wonderful little engines and a steal by all respects anyways.
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Old 09-26-2013, 10:56 AM
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Yes indeed, the .020 is a wonderful little engine, and you can do more with it. If you have two, heck why not think twin..? Balloon suction tanks work well for more fuel capacity, keep the lines short.
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Old 09-27-2013, 06:04 AM
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I have to agree with CP on the mach none. In stock form it is fine for the 09. For a 049 it needs to go on a major diet and cut the wing down to a 9% airfoil and run a hot TD on pressure. 2 considerations with the 09. You need to find space for a 2oz tank and balance. You can move the battery and elevator servo to the rear of the fuselage if needed. An apc 6.3x4 is another possible prop for the mach none.
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Old 09-27-2013, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hllywdb View Post
I have to agree with CP on the mach none. In stock form it is fine for the 09. For a 049 it needs to go on a major diet and cut the wing down to a 9% airfoil and run a hot TD on pressure. 2 considerations with the 09. You need to find space for a 2oz tank and balance. You can move the battery and elevator servo to the rear of the fuselage if needed. An apc 6.3x4 is another possible prop for the mach none.
It's always a question of performance expectations and personal taste. Kind of like way to go with an old car that needs everything..hot rod it or just restore it to original.
I've seen the .07 &.09 &.10s used to "save" commercial 1/2A kit planes that were dogs with .049 power and that is what led me to buy my first .07....to salvage a plane I scratch built that was too lethargic and tail heavy with .049 power. The bigger engines in this size range make good use of the 7x3 prop to give quite a boost in thrust.
One of these days I'm going to build a MachNone for a stripped down ASP .12 that runs on crankcase pressure, open exhaust and open venturi [no heavyweight carb]...I've had the canopy and wing cores laying around for 25 years.
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Old 09-27-2013, 12:04 PM
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I bet that is the ASP .12 from the legendary Sheet Wing Racer!!
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Old 09-27-2013, 12:05 PM
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I have flown the non-RC TD 09 a lot on controline stunt airplanes.I run them on Sig Champion fuels, 10% nitro, 20% oil, half and half. Cox 7 x 3.5 prop. Backplate pressure to a uniflow tank, with a one way valve in the pressure line. Release at 14,500-15,000. Set up like this they will blip over 17,000 on the bench.
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