The 24 year itch
12-11-2014, 09:33 AM
#76
If I was me, I would go for the AP .15. The design is newer than the .12, and it is a rear exhaust already for using the pipe. The case is an .09 size a fairly light too. It is only $30 too if you need a few to butcher, that is no problem. I had thought about getting the .12 too, but went with the .15. I got two now, and one .09. I know it is run what you brung, just sayin. There is just the possible problem of needing a longer motor mount or having room to route the exhaust. You will need to make an adapter for the pipe too. I will likely make a few soon if you want one. It will maybe be a few days/months for the weather to warm up though. My 'machine shop' isn't really heated. Pond skipper was just using a brake fitting with the 10mm fine thread.
12-11-2014, 05:27 PM
#77
Yes M10x1. If anyone goes that route you need to bore out the fitting to 1mm thin wall all around will yield 7mm ID and tapper the inside on both ends for best possible flow.
The up side most of the works done for you and they are cheap $1 a pop.
Listed as -Male M10x1 HEX 10 Brake Line for 3/16 Pipes
The up side most of the works done for you and they are cheap $1 a pop.
Listed as -Male M10x1 HEX 10 Brake Line for 3/16 Pipes
Last edited by Pond Skipper; 12-11-2014 at 05:30 PM.
12-13-2014, 08:56 PM
#78
Ah the wonderful world of metric hardware.
That's good to know that the AP .15 is a worthy motor and pipeable.
Here is the .049 - .061 bird. I think I'll use silver covering to give the top some contrast with the bottom.
Figuring out how to come up with fuel proof purple to paint the cowl is the next chore.
For as large as the plane is, it isn't too awful heavy feeling to just hold it.
I used craft store cellophane to cover it. That stuff is so light, it's practically weightless. It didn't smooth out real perfect over this foam, It looks a little bit like leather in some spots. I've seen it come out better in the past but this will work. I bought several rolls of this stuff for 99 cents each several years ago. It is very low temp and has good shrink. The major seams need clear Scotch tape over them because the 3M77 adhesive gives way to fuel creepage.
That's good to know that the AP .15 is a worthy motor and pipeable.
Figuring out how to come up with fuel proof purple to paint the cowl is the next chore.
For as large as the plane is, it isn't too awful heavy feeling to just hold it.
I used craft store cellophane to cover it. That stuff is so light, it's practically weightless. It didn't smooth out real perfect over this foam, It looks a little bit like leather in some spots. I've seen it come out better in the past but this will work. I bought several rolls of this stuff for 99 cents each several years ago. It is very low temp and has good shrink. The major seams need clear Scotch tape over them because the 3M77 adhesive gives way to fuel creepage.
Last edited by combatpigg; 12-13-2014 at 09:00 PM.
12-14-2014, 08:23 PM
#79
So..got to pick up a new air brush and paint a couple of cowls.
This plane also needs a good .049 specimen pieced together from my junk pile and some props from APC.
Last edited by combatpigg; 12-14-2014 at 08:28 PM.
12-14-2014, 09:24 PM
#80
CP the extra efforts have really cleaned up the plane looking mucho better hiding the seams- I was going to pipe in and suggest canopy tape but felt best to wait till worked out the details. Are you going to put a number in the box? If sooooo I vote for 49! Unless you put a .061 on the nose = )~
Hope that automotive holds up for you if left to cure for a week it should have a good fighting chance. With the extra effort on light weight covering what is the weight thus far??
Hope that automotive holds up for you if left to cure for a week it should have a good fighting chance. With the extra effort on light weight covering what is the weight thus far??
12-14-2014, 11:05 PM
#81
It looks like it will be 16.2 ozs if I use a Hayes 1 oz tank or 15.8 ozs if I just use the plastic "tank mount" that only holds 90 seconds worth of fuel or so.
This is with AAA cell battery, 2 HS65s, a Spektrum Park Flyer RX and a 1/ 16" welding rod that is close to 18 inches long to move the elevator. This plane would actually fit a local club's rules for pylon racing since it is 200 sq " / 16 oz. The GLH is the most common design you see at that field, though.
Thanks for the compliment for how she looks. I'm easy to please when it comes to looks, especially with a bare foam ACE RC wing...!
[That's pretty low on the evolutionary ladder for a model plane, just above coroplast]
This wing is still pretty rubbery out past the spar. It wouldn't take much of a snag to rip off a wing tip.
So, that will be my quest every outing...to see if I can make this wing flap like a bird.
This is with AAA cell battery, 2 HS65s, a Spektrum Park Flyer RX and a 1/ 16" welding rod that is close to 18 inches long to move the elevator. This plane would actually fit a local club's rules for pylon racing since it is 200 sq " / 16 oz. The GLH is the most common design you see at that field, though.
Thanks for the compliment for how she looks. I'm easy to please when it comes to looks, especially with a bare foam ACE RC wing...!
[That's pretty low on the evolutionary ladder for a model plane, just above coroplast]
This wing is still pretty rubbery out past the spar. It wouldn't take much of a snag to rip off a wing tip.
So, that will be my quest every outing...to see if I can make this wing flap like a bird.
12-15-2014, 12:38 AM
#82
Ha CP funny! Yea 1oz tank is a must I imagine you will be mounting a thirsty engine on there.
Mine is down to monokote for the wing. Finally got around to hooking up the wing servos and torque rods all up 10.233 oz 4cell Sanik 400mah AAA batts. Of course this is a smaller plane with 88 sq. in.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/8-SANIK-iDEC...#ht_1801wt_998
$12.83 for 8 of them.
Mine is down to monokote for the wing. Finally got around to hooking up the wing servos and torque rods all up 10.233 oz 4cell Sanik 400mah AAA batts. Of course this is a smaller plane with 88 sq. in.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/8-SANIK-iDEC...#ht_1801wt_998
$12.83 for 8 of them.
Last edited by Pond Skipper; 12-15-2014 at 12:46 AM.
12-15-2014, 08:12 AM
#84
$12.83 for 8 isn't too bad, but $12.95 to ship here is pretty bad. I guess I am foreign. I just go to the dollar store and get the Ni Mh AAA's in the two pack. ($2 store?)
12-15-2014, 08:25 AM
#85
You have a nicely turned out plane there.
I bought some rolls of cellophane some time back (based on your experience in using it), but have not yet pulled any off the roll. I've been using Doculam recently, but if I can figure out how to stick it down to the Doculam, I may try using some as trim.
I bought some rolls of cellophane some time back (based on your experience in using it), but have not yet pulled any off the roll. I've been using Doculam recently, but if I can figure out how to stick it down to the Doculam, I may try using some as trim.
Last edited by Andrew; 12-15-2014 at 09:06 AM.
12-15-2014, 12:04 PM
#86
Thanks for the compliment Andrew.
Remember to test the cellophane to determine which side has the ink. Some brands have the ink on the top side as you unroll it.
It might work OK as trim, but it shrinks so easily that your trim is going to have wavy edges unless you can apply it without heat.
I'd use it under Doculam.
For really tiny electric powered projects, the cellophane would be hard to beat for a zero weight gain.
I first saw it used as covering for C/L Combat planes and I used it to cover all my RC Combat planes.
Remember to test the cellophane to determine which side has the ink. Some brands have the ink on the top side as you unroll it.
It might work OK as trim, but it shrinks so easily that your trim is going to have wavy edges unless you can apply it without heat.
I'd use it under Doculam.
For really tiny electric powered projects, the cellophane would be hard to beat for a zero weight gain.
I first saw it used as covering for C/L Combat planes and I used it to cover all my RC Combat planes.
12-15-2014, 12:53 PM
#87
The one smart lipo is currently in the smaller Lil Speedy 1S 250mah = ) at 11g.
I may go ahead and snag this one next:
Smart Lipo 5V 500mAh 1S Battery regulator 15.3g
- for now I can get by on the 400mah 24g nimhs pending final CG.
I may go ahead and snag this one next:
Smart Lipo 5V 500mAh 1S Battery regulator 15.3g
- for now I can get by on the 400mah 24g nimhs pending final CG.
12-15-2014, 04:39 PM
#88
I picked up a used Big Mig .049 for about $30 some time ago.
Today I polished the crank with 1200 grit and put it back together with an old white plastic 6 x 3 prop.
With a high comp TD head and 10% nitro it hit 16,400 pretty easily. I'm pretty sure a really good Big Mig can hit 18,000 with the same prop and possibly higher nitro fuel....but this engine is at least still usable.
The same engine hit 20,000 with a APC 5 x 3 today.
This engine has very little compression, but the shaft is still in good shape
I'll keep sifting through the junk pile for better specimens.............
Today I polished the crank with 1200 grit and put it back together with an old white plastic 6 x 3 prop.
With a high comp TD head and 10% nitro it hit 16,400 pretty easily. I'm pretty sure a really good Big Mig can hit 18,000 with the same prop and possibly higher nitro fuel....but this engine is at least still usable.
The same engine hit 20,000 with a APC 5 x 3 today.
This engine has very little compression, but the shaft is still in good shape
I'll keep sifting through the junk pile for better specimens.............
Last edited by combatpigg; 12-16-2014 at 04:53 PM.
12-16-2014, 08:13 PM
#89
The 049 should pull it just fine. 16oz might sound heavy to you after building 12oz 1/2a stuff but the wing makes a big difference. It might not have the rocket vertical of a 12oz plane but they realy fly nice and carry a lot of speed well into the verticals. Also one of my go to wing styles for 15mph days. They just slice through and don't get bumpy. I think way back I had one with full size servos, battery, and reciever that still managed OK on just a medallion for a while. 16oz is a nice weight for that plane.
Like you said, you can build them lighter, but you have to go with a shorter wing and a different building style. I've managed to get full 4 channel, 5 servos down under 15oz at around 35" span. But I can't realy say it flys that much better, just different. Oh, also when running that long a wing, balancing side to side makes a big difference in tracking through loops and verticals, being that you can't just trim in more rudder.
Like you said, you can build them lighter, but you have to go with a shorter wing and a different building style. I've managed to get full 4 channel, 5 servos down under 15oz at around 35" span. But I can't realy say it flys that much better, just different. Oh, also when running that long a wing, balancing side to side makes a big difference in tracking through loops and verticals, being that you can't just trim in more rudder.
12-16-2014, 08:58 PM
#90
The 049 should pull it just fine. 16oz might sound heavy to you after building 12oz 1/2a stuff but the wing makes a big difference. It might not have the rocket vertical of a 12oz plane but they realy fly nice and carry a lot of speed well into the verticals. Also one of my go to wing styles for 15mph days. They just slice through and don't get bumpy. I think way back I had one with full size servos, battery, and reciever that still managed OK on just a medallion for a while. 16oz is a nice weight for that plane.
Like you said, you can build them lighter, but you have to go with a shorter wing and a different building style. I've managed to get full 4 channel, 5 servos down under 15oz at around 35" span. But I can't realy say it flys that much better, just different. Oh, also when running that long a wing, balancing side to side makes a big difference in tracking through loops and verticals, being that you can't just trim in more rudder.
Like you said, you can build them lighter, but you have to go with a shorter wing and a different building style. I've managed to get full 4 channel, 5 servos down under 15oz at around 35" span. But I can't realy say it flys that much better, just different. Oh, also when running that long a wing, balancing side to side makes a big difference in tracking through loops and verticals, being that you can't just trim in more rudder.
Yep, I'd say the upper limit is 16 ozs for good clean fun..then it's time to put in a .074 big block.
Thanks for the reminder to balance these planes laterally, I have forgotten this detail before.
Just think of how proud some of our past presidents would be to know that their likenesses were taped to wing panels and given so much "air time" through the years..
12-17-2014, 02:31 PM
#91
Nothing Earth shattering to report, but I found a good AME .061 still bolted to a GLH and tested it.
It has a Nelson head, stock venturi, back plate pressure and open exhaust.
10% nitro
APC 4.75 x 4 ..............24,200
APC 5 x 3 ...................26,400
COX 5 x 3 ...................26,100
These are good looking numbers, like what you could expect from a newer engine. The prop flips past compression with some snap to it.
I doused the engine real good with Hoppes and spun it after warming it with a heat gun to get it loose and prelubed. After sitting so many years up in the rafters it was nice to find it ready to run [even though the plane was covered with so much filth from being in a nasty work shop.
I tried to piece together a decent engine from my bone pile and just confirmed that all I own is a bunch of junk as far as P/L sets are concerned.
It has a Nelson head, stock venturi, back plate pressure and open exhaust.
10% nitro
APC 4.75 x 4 ..............24,200
APC 5 x 3 ...................26,400
COX 5 x 3 ...................26,100
These are good looking numbers, like what you could expect from a newer engine. The prop flips past compression with some snap to it.
I doused the engine real good with Hoppes and spun it after warming it with a heat gun to get it loose and prelubed. After sitting so many years up in the rafters it was nice to find it ready to run [even though the plane was covered with so much filth from being in a nasty work shop.
I tried to piece together a decent engine from my bone pile and just confirmed that all I own is a bunch of junk as far as P/L sets are concerned.
Last edited by combatpigg; 12-17-2014 at 02:34 PM.
12-17-2014, 07:32 PM
#92
I got tied up with a few motorcycle projects this year, plus a few long road trips on the cycles, so have done less building and flying than normal. I did get the 020 size glh all done this year though. Now I'm on a sort of similar build as yours, but with Sig Hummers in 049 and one in 020 size. Not sure why I got bit by the 020 bug the last year or so. Wish it bit me when they were $15.95 a piece. Thank God I don't own a 010 or I'd be glueing two swept back popsical sticks to a chop stick and see how fast I could make it go.
What will the 061 spin a 5.7X3? With that big wing they like the thrust that you get from those props. I've never been a big fan of the 6X3 as it never seems to do anything spectacular, Even the old Tornados which had quite a bit of the rubber ducky tourque converter slip to them never did much for me. If you can get 20 to 22k with the 5.7X3 it should haul that quite nicely. I tried a 5X3 on a tee dee back in the day and remember the climb out being slow. Maybe at 16oz yours will fair better.
I have a couple with clipped wings too. It gives a quicker roll rate, but you lose some lift, not sure you save much in weight.
What will the 061 spin a 5.7X3? With that big wing they like the thrust that you get from those props. I've never been a big fan of the 6X3 as it never seems to do anything spectacular, Even the old Tornados which had quite a bit of the rubber ducky tourque converter slip to them never did much for me. If you can get 20 to 22k with the 5.7X3 it should haul that quite nicely. I tried a 5X3 on a tee dee back in the day and remember the climb out being slow. Maybe at 16oz yours will fair better.
I have a couple with clipped wings too. It gives a quicker roll rate, but you lose some lift, not sure you save much in weight.
12-17-2014, 10:39 PM
#93
Funny you should ask about the 5.7 x 3...I ordered 10 of them from an ebay seller today for $15 plus $2 for shipping.
Like you, I think these might work the best on this big plane.
We'll see pretty soon.
If a TD.020 fell into my lap, I'd devote some time building planes for it too.
I was thinking about long motorcycle trips and how it's been many years since I've seen a biker towing a trailer. I wondered if it was outlawed...?
Hitting a cross wind might cause problems..?
Like you, I think these might work the best on this big plane.
We'll see pretty soon.
If a TD.020 fell into my lap, I'd devote some time building planes for it too.
I was thinking about long motorcycle trips and how it's been many years since I've seen a biker towing a trailer. I wondered if it was outlawed...?
Hitting a cross wind might cause problems..?
12-18-2014, 01:44 PM
#97
Here is another engine I can add to the list of "possibles" that can be run.
It's an early Norvel / Stels .049.
It can run on suction with the plastic venturi insert or else on pressure with the insert removed. When I first bought it [late 1980s] it was as powerful as my best TD .049.
It lost power at some point in time and I never looked deep enough into why and just forgot about it for 25 years or so. I looked at it yesterday and it looked promising. The liner is very shiny, like chrome plate. There are some pits that look like fish eyes in a paint job, but there aren't any scratched or gouges. Same with the piston and it seemed plenty tight enough. The crank has a special relief ground into the main journal to reduce surface contact with the case. The porting looks as aggressive as a AME's. The crank has a blued finish except for the journal surface looks like chrome.
It only ran a 5 x 3 to 16000 yesterday.
I took it apart today and found that I could only push the piston half way up the cylinder by hand. I scoured the piston with a red Scotch pad for a few seconds, doused it with Hoppes then found that I could push it almost all the way up without forcing it. After reassembly the engine was rotated with Hoppes solvent and the deglazed piston sloughed off more gunk. After this treatment it hit 22,000 on 10% nitro with a 5x3 APC.
So this was a nice surprise
It's an early Norvel / Stels .049.
It can run on suction with the plastic venturi insert or else on pressure with the insert removed. When I first bought it [late 1980s] it was as powerful as my best TD .049.
It lost power at some point in time and I never looked deep enough into why and just forgot about it for 25 years or so. I looked at it yesterday and it looked promising. The liner is very shiny, like chrome plate. There are some pits that look like fish eyes in a paint job, but there aren't any scratched or gouges. Same with the piston and it seemed plenty tight enough. The crank has a special relief ground into the main journal to reduce surface contact with the case. The porting looks as aggressive as a AME's. The crank has a blued finish except for the journal surface looks like chrome.
It only ran a 5 x 3 to 16000 yesterday.
I took it apart today and found that I could only push the piston half way up the cylinder by hand. I scoured the piston with a red Scotch pad for a few seconds, doused it with Hoppes then found that I could push it almost all the way up without forcing it. After reassembly the engine was rotated with Hoppes solvent and the deglazed piston sloughed off more gunk. After this treatment it hit 22,000 on 10% nitro with a 5x3 APC.
So this was a nice surprise
12-18-2014, 03:57 PM
#98
I have one that never worked properly because of too much clearance on the crank/crankcase. It went fairly fast, but wouldn't hold a setting. I made new bushings up for it, and it runs fine now. It has also sat for many years unused. Quicker than a TD for sure, not by much though. All the .049s were close to each other with the ones I checked in stock form. Even the Wen Mac was fairly close, even better than the Medallion. I used the 4 1/4 - 4 to test.
