combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

It sounds intense..!
This goes to show that the engine's ability to unwind is coupled to the weight and drag of the airplane, plus how well the prop matches these conditions.
The propellor never MAKES the conditions, the propellor MATCHES the conditions.

Pond Skipper

Yes very true its a joint effort of all components to get the rpm's. Knowing what is possible now
I think the TD .020 can be pushed to 33k and stay together it has done over 31k already.
Need to check the ball socket fit and see how things are holding up after using the 2.6g
carbon prop. Prop mass and airfoil thickness needs to stay minimal to allow the ball socket
to hold up to the rpm's.

Best passes TD .020 today:

4x2.8 Carbon / 31,330 / 83.07 / upside vertical was a tad faster and pulled great in tight circles.

3.75x3 E-flite / 31,734 / 90.15 mph / blistering passes good vertical and turns had good bite.

Looked faster do to size and power to weight is well over 1.3:1 worth checking with a radar gun.


I think the NANO design blown up enough to just fit 3ch gear for a throttle sleeved .049 could do 30k without breaking
the rod or crumbling the ball socket. If 3oz with TD .010 / then 4oz with .020 then 5oz is possible with .049 with 9g servos.


Of course these are non sustainable rpm's, drastic measures to weight reduction using
foam core carbon skinning would be in order with zero monokote. Not full carbon weave but
single layer see pic, crossed only where needed. The hand launch guys rule with the very
best tech to get max performance their smaller wings and tail feather designs fall in the strength
and wing spans suitable for the TD .010 thru .049. Next level servos would be needed.
How about two servos for 2g seen the vid they move fast for what they are good enough
for sport flying fast. then there is the 1.7g servos will run on a single lipoly cell.



HK-5320 Ultra-Micro Digital Servo

Spec.
Weight: 1.7g
Speed: 0.07sec 60deg @ 2.8v / 0.05sec 60deg @4.2v
Torque: 0.05kg @ 2.8v / 0.075kg @ 4.2v
Dead Band: <4us
Plug: Micro JST - 1.25 Pitch

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...c_0_075kg.html





NANO Run from Sunday..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCueeI9HbEU


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCueeI9HbEU

Pond Skipper

Wave Scope doppler reads / good solid lines to go by.

53mph or 85.7 kmh / shows 6 mph over the prop calc program

1 Hz = 60 rpm / 673 Hz / 40,380 rpm

MJD

My Feedback: (1)

Not uncommon - the majority of pitch ratings are from the lower surface datum, which would be bang on if we were flying through wood. The zero lift angle of the prop blade is generally higher than that and you're running an excess of power for the airframe & airspeed so the slippage would be minimal.

Pond Skipper

Yes and the soft black plastic blade flexing increases pitch at the tips so speeds over what prop calc estimates
is easy enough to do with enough rpm. I had another reading of 92 kmh / 57 mph which is plausible.
It was 53 mph in front and 57 after the pass so average 55 mph. A couple more flights and I will be
comfortable enough to use the 2.5x3 prop should do 85+ its going to be one heck of a vid if I can
keep up with the plane and not allow it to get too far out of my sight.

Hows it going with your's Mike? Don't get distracted with another project, I want to see your's fly!!


I have yet to get a close up flying pic this one really isn't that far away the plane is simply a
small subject to capture. This pic is about 25-30ft away. Yellow fuselage shows up much better
with the Lil Speedy. My choice of color for the NANO blends too much with the sky.

MJD

My Feedback: (1)

I'm picking away at it. I felt guilty, because I was humping away at the Bad Baby Birdie then got distracted by this. So I went back at the wings on the BBB for a bit, but you are right - I gotta get the Scat Cat, or Skitty Kitty or whatever the heck it is, done pronto!. I was obsessing a bit over the finish choices, but I think in the end I will go Microlite on the flying surfaces and tissue/nitrate/epoxy finish on the fuse.

However, keep in mind it is several degrees below freezing, and 6-10" of snow predicted this week.. so our flying season for real is still month away. Had a few nice spells though.

Pond Skipper

Wow you guys get some long harsh winters, I would need sub 9mph wind, at least 45F and sunny.
The Oracover i used is thin and light great for the small ones but alas Im at 3.11oz fueled. My micro
MPI switch harness could be done with a smaller set up. Sounds like you may hit sub 3oz fueled.

MJD

My Feedback: (1)

Hope so. The last little details can cost a bit of weight if rushed. I will likely make a micro shorting plug switch, or just plug it in and close it up - using a 200mAh Rx battery will give lots of extra time for fiddling in the pits.

I never thought much of reflective films for visibility. But I also don't like yellow and some people swear by it.

Pond Skipper

The Neon Yellow pops on the Lil Speedy but the covering is heavy. Orange, Reds, Yellows, Pinks all show well.
200mah will give you alot of air time, the 80mah pack looks like its good for 4 flights based on what I have put
back in the pack after two flights. Yes fabricated on / off would save weight for sure.
I'm all charged up will try a few vids after work, I have a two hour window of daylight on the quest for better vid.

Pond Skipper

Got in 3 flights much closer passes as close as they get here is a still shot from
The vid I am reviewing, will pick the best vid and post. Finally some good vid..



Multiple passed have crested 40k+
Best Pass 41,985 rpm / 50 mph per calc.
Cam from the 3rd flight will post a vid of that
pass for all to see / hear.

3rd run the sun was in the tree lines.



5.27 minute flight with the best NV setting on 5g of fuel.

80ma battery lost .62v after 3 flights about 16 mins of flying
used 47 mah. Battery had 5.01v left in the pack.
15.67mah per flight average not bad.

The engine must really be broken in nice at this stage I
really am enjoying flying this NANO-TD .010.

Best Pass 41,985 rpm / 50 mph per calc here is the vid of the pass!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBf7OCBPTq4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBf7OCBPTq4 3rd Test Flight Full Run Vid from today:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lykn...ature=youtu.be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lyknz70Eds8&feature=youtu.be

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Just 15 RPM away from glory ...!
It might be a good idea to check the piston, but it might not if you are superstitious.

Pond Skipper

Yes been thinking about that ball socket, easy test is to pull the glow plug and put your finger over the
top turn over the engine and feel for a loose socket. Next time I fly the last run while the engine is
hot I will loosen the glow plug so it will be ready to check back on the work bench. The loading is
so low on the engine I anticipate the socket to be in good shape. I am ready to try the next prop
as the rpm is crazy with no real speed gains I expect the plane was doing close to 60 based on the
Doppler numbers from the last posted check.

So the cut down E-flite 3.75x3to 2.6x3 will scrub off rpm

Est. into the wind - 31k / 88 mph
Down wind - 36k / 102 mph (will try current 30fps setting on the camera but may need to set to 60fps)

Should be better engine loading and power out considering where the power band at present rpm is lol.

Superstitious not.. it would be easy to leave things be and not mess up that vintage sealed up from age glow plug threads.
I imagine this is helping. No need trashing a good ball socket though if it needs resetting so be it, they do tend to last longer
between resets after the first mashing. I do oil the plug threads and let sit till the next run by then there is some added sealing.
Sure would be neat to have a well made light weight header and pipe for goo control something thin walled like the Profi
pipe would be perfect. The aluminum grade is tough on those pipes. Could do the whole set up for around 7g..

Pond Skipper

I converted the best pass of 41,985 to a wav. file.
Notice the Hz in the Wave Scope program:
The pass was so close to the camera it gave very solid lines.

4146 - 4841 = 695 Hz x 60 rpm = 41,700 rpm / 58.8 mph



Placing the data points spot on can vary slightly / one reading was 61 mph
According to the Pitch Speed Calculator:
Wave Scope: 41,700 / 49.4 mph.
Phone App: 41,985 / 50 mph


Mike your Skitty Kitty or Scat Rat has been thrown the gauntlet
Let the E Net Speed Challenge Commence!

Sign up list:
- Mike
- Chuck
- Chris
- Alan
- András
- and any other TD .010 engine hoarders !

Mr Cox

From the screen dump it doesn't look like you are using the program in the right way. Here is what it should look like, you want the change of frequency in one single line (this gives you the doppler shift and hence the speed can be calculated), not the difference between two different lines;

Pond Skipper

I placed the green and red lines correctly and used the Km h result / converted it to Mph.
Second use of the program was to find rpm. Here is a comparison.



My rpm App reads 30,114, I have the wav. file for that gif. pic result.
When the software was downloaded as a sample.
1 Hz = 60 rpm


110.96 Km h / 68.95 mph.

The IC engine doesn't show the break lines between the incoming and outgoing
shift like the electric motor example provided by the program.




With some effort you can split the shift if so 58mph
The reading is only off by .8 not worth the fuss.

Mr Cox

No, that's not the way to use the program. You should follow the frequency changes of one line. These changes in frequency comes from the doppler effect (plus changes in rpm from a dive of course).

You can read more about it here; http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=553909

Here is a 90° rotated diagram (as compared to the wave scope ones);

Pond Skipper

jfinch: proposed location for placing the data points

The one point that might need explaining is where to pick the two points for the distance measurement. You want to pick an approaching point where the plane is about 45 degrees from the horizon and then a leaving point at about the same angle. I try to pick the point just before the curve really starts to go vertical. You don't have to be exact, just enter the frequency and time (in milliseconds) and the spreadsheet will do the rest.

The S curve is kind of wide (spread out) at these locations. It might seem intuitive to pick a point in the "middle" of the spectrum, but I propose that the proper point to pick is on the underside of the S curve. Here's my reasoning... I think the spread out nature of the spectrum is due to the microphone "remembering" what it was picking up a millisecond ago (hysteresis). If that's the case then I think the lowest frequencies will match closest to actual (the spread upward is the hysteresis effect).

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6531167&postcount=20



Taking his explanation and advice per Chris's recommendation of use I get the following: Thank you Chris! Now go build a TD .010 racer your on the list

aspeed

Everyone should make one that is control line, and then we could get the speed checked more accurately. My head hurts trying to figure out the wave scope thing. And I made radars for 25 years?

Mr Cox

I'm glad to se that you've sorted it out now.

A .010 racer you say?
I started one a few years ago, wanted to convert the Nemesis (micro) by Graupner. I have put in a carbon rod in the wing and smoothened out the surfaces, before I got distracted by other things. I think it would be a bit nicer with a throttled .020 engine though.

I'm also a little tempted to rescale the "Yellow Jacket" by Moris hobbies, should do well in just about any size, with the right engine, I think.

Pond Skipper

If you can get it on vid and post it we should be able to do a unbiased reading.

However I think both CL and RC have advantages over each other and could be
acceptable. CL you can go very light and streamlined but required to drag lines,
RC you can build up speed through the pass in lieu of the extra weight and bulk.

Could do a 75 ft. gate filmed 65 ft. back, fastest through the gate wins.
Two 1/4in x 36in wooden dowels with red 6x8 flags waving off the top should work.
Run a tank out filming passes and pick your best one, post on YouTube.
66 ft. per second is 45 mph.


I'm going to buy one of these cheap as $55 bucks set up 50 ft in front of the operator
just do a pass in front of yourself while filming you will capture the speed on vid.
Large readable screen holds memory for the best top speeds. The stand is already
at an angle should capture from 5ft to 15ft f high passes. The radar field is wide enough
and faces from the front of the device. Accurate within .3 mph. Can prop it up or tilt
it back til your in the fly by zone.

[h=4]Features[/h]

• Same technology used by the pros
• Perfect for baseball, softball, soccer, football, and lacrosse
• Large, easy-to-read LED display
• Displays in mph or km/h
• Durable, portable casing for indoor and outdoor use
• Clocks speed between 15-150 mph
• Battery operated (4 C batteries not included)

Pond Skipper

Yes reduced Yellow Jacket would be fast simple 2 ch for all out speed!

The Nemesis would do better with the TD .020 and throttle sleeve,
Its a bit too bulky to be super fast with the TD .010

Updates:

Sign up list:
- Mike (70% completed micro Scat Cat)
- Chuck (not sure)
- Kris (is thinking on a Yellow Jacket scaled down)
- Alan (may enter a CL TD .010 with timed laps or RC)
- András ( NANO style build)
- and any other TD .010 engine hoarders !

Pond Skipper

Today I took off the stock prop and put on the 2.6x3

In the hand just prior to launch 24,142 rpm
Best Pass in a cross wind level 35,206 rpm / 100.02 mph
Average Pass 33,500 rpm / 95.17 mph
Many passes at 34,700 + / 98.58 mph
Average pass into the wind 29,500 mph / 84 mph

Flight speeds where silky smooth without the mind boggling screaming at 41k plus.
It happens so fast in a blink then the plane is on the far back side of my field.
The plane ate up real estate fast but was quite manageable.

The passes in front of the cam are smoking fast at 30 frames per second I don't get many frames!
It happens soo fast in a blink then the plane is on the far end of my field from one end to the other wham wham!
NAMO WHAMO Time fo shizzle..

Will post vid later tonight going out for dinner with family.

MJD

My Feedback: (1)

Cool!

We just got power back after an ice storm hit Thursday evening. Never saw so much tree damage as this one.

Our LHS has almost all the cool looking quad racer props I've spotted on the net so far.. except the 4x4.5 or those CF 3x3. "Oh, we're getting some of those too" I was told today.

Good progress on the Micro Scat Cat - CF tissue D box added, and tissued the whole wing. Separated the ailerons tonight, they are satisfyingly stiff. Just dug out some wire and sleeve for the elevator and aileron linkages, that's next on the list. Firewall is glassed. Tail group ready to cover. Workshop was 46 degrees today, brrrr.

Shouldn't be too long now.

I've caught the DLG bug.. uh oh.

Pond Skipper

Mike post some pic on your thread when you can. Bummer about the storm, glad you and family are ok!!


Here is the vid: compare the passes from Weds vid at 41,985 rpm with stock prop you can clearly see the major difference in speed.
The prop selection cut down with back cuts to reduce width is a major game changer.

In lieu of the pending speed competition I will no longer post my prop types or mods nor show any pics of them heheheheheheheheh muaaaah hahah...
JK unlike many other speed freaks who have retired with their speed secrets I will stay open and show what I have done with results.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsDp4oruG30

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsDp4oruG30
Published on Mar 26, 2016

Best Pass in a cross wind (on this vid) level 35,206 rpm / 100.02 mph / per prop calc.
Best Pass From 3 Vids 35,904 rpm / 102 MPH
Average Pass 33,500 rpm / 95.17 mph
Many passes at 34,700 + / 98.58 mph
Average pass into the wind 29,500 mph / 84 mph
Note I tossed some grass up to show wind direction I am flying cross wind passes most times
for today's tests. With the stock prop 4.33 mins at best, now with the lower rpm's 5.29 mins.

1st Doppler Wave Scope analysis 97.51mph / 157 Km h from the above vid at 2mins 37 seconds
2nd analysis from posted vid 101.64 mph / 163.58 Km h

With the stock prop 4.33 mins at best, now with the lower rpm's 5.29 mins.

MJD

My Feedback: (1)

Well, now that you have a WavOScope reading of 100, what's the point? May as well finish something else now..

Oh okay I'll keep going.