Ply Rolled Fuselage Part Deux - 1/2A " Mini Skorch "
02-11-2015, 09:17 PM
#301
Thread Starter
I emailed Bernie and asked him to start making these and he sourced the original mold in California from the company he farms out to make the Cox props / been doing the other types for years.
If you get a chance take a pic of the batch of bad props before you send them.
I guess its possible some newbie at the plastic company pulled props out of the molds too early before they had a chance to cool.
If you get a chance take a pic of the batch of bad props before you send them.
I guess its possible some newbie at the plastic company pulled props out of the molds too early before they had a chance to cool.
Last edited by Pond Skipper; 02-12-2015 at 06:16 AM.
02-14-2015, 06:24 PM
#304
Thread Starter
RTF 11.6oz
Flew today with a APC 5.7 x3 19,780 recorded level pass unloaded 56mph
Great thrust but lacks speed. Muffler is helping to control goo but at a loss of rpm.
Pressure tap on muffler allowed 1oz tank to run 5.2 mins from start to dead stick.
25% nitro.
This one flies solid like the Lil Speedy but even more so (Cadillac) with tighter turns with the thicker airfoil and over all size.
The elevator has solid command of the wing on low rates it appears to be enough for general flying.
The vertical stab and rudder help it to track very well straight up but not unlimited with the current restrictive muffler feathering in some right rudder to milk the top.
With flaps deployed it balloons up showing the obvious additional lift allowing me to throttle back and maintain altitude.
On landing the flaps helped the speed wing to a smooth slower pace no tip stall all the way to the ground.
Down wind dives had it moving fast with just a 3P. Pulls well in the turns with the APC prop for fast sport flying.
Here are some pics, video was taken with the ball cap and head cam but the cam was not pointing up enough to capture the plane.
Once in awhile a lil bit of it would show but not worth uploading. Only good pic was a close pass still within frame. I will go out again Sunday
to get a proper vid. I'm real happy with the run time but know it will go away once the rpm goes up. In scream mode on 1 oz I should be
around 4mins. After three flights I had 5.2V from 5.8v left in the cell I'm charging to see how many milli amps I used from the 400 mah. pack.
Based on the needed trims should be able to use tatone muffler which will give me back about 800 rpm. Last pic shows the typical view with the cam when I was flying.
Flew today with a APC 5.7 x3 19,780 recorded level pass unloaded 56mph
Great thrust but lacks speed. Muffler is helping to control goo but at a loss of rpm.
Pressure tap on muffler allowed 1oz tank to run 5.2 mins from start to dead stick.
25% nitro.
This one flies solid like the Lil Speedy but even more so (Cadillac) with tighter turns with the thicker airfoil and over all size.
The elevator has solid command of the wing on low rates it appears to be enough for general flying.
The vertical stab and rudder help it to track very well straight up but not unlimited with the current restrictive muffler feathering in some right rudder to milk the top.
With flaps deployed it balloons up showing the obvious additional lift allowing me to throttle back and maintain altitude.
On landing the flaps helped the speed wing to a smooth slower pace no tip stall all the way to the ground.
Down wind dives had it moving fast with just a 3P. Pulls well in the turns with the APC prop for fast sport flying.
Here are some pics, video was taken with the ball cap and head cam but the cam was not pointing up enough to capture the plane.
Once in awhile a lil bit of it would show but not worth uploading. Only good pic was a close pass still within frame. I will go out again Sunday
to get a proper vid. I'm real happy with the run time but know it will go away once the rpm goes up. In scream mode on 1 oz I should be
around 4mins. After three flights I had 5.2V from 5.8v left in the cell I'm charging to see how many milli amps I used from the 400 mah. pack.
Based on the needed trims should be able to use tatone muffler which will give me back about 800 rpm. Last pic shows the typical view with the cam when I was flying.
Last edited by Pond Skipper; 02-14-2015 at 09:33 PM.
02-14-2015, 08:16 PM
#305
That middle photo is especially nice..!
I used to get 12 minutes of "run time" with the AP .061 on 15% nitro, 6 x 3 and 2 oz tank..so your run time sounds par for the course.
There ought to be a clever way to get the helmet cam dialed in besides trial and error. I recently used a cheap lazer to "sight in" a driveway IR beam detector with it's reflector and it took all the guess work out of what could have been a real chore doing it with the naked eye.
I used to get 12 minutes of "run time" with the AP .061 on 15% nitro, 6 x 3 and 2 oz tank..so your run time sounds par for the course.
There ought to be a clever way to get the helmet cam dialed in besides trial and error. I recently used a cheap lazer to "sight in" a driveway IR beam detector with it's reflector and it took all the guess work out of what could have been a real chore doing it with the naked eye.
02-14-2015, 09:11 PM
#306
Thread Starter
It was my fault I was looking at the plane setting it up with the cam on monitoring it with my cell phone I should have stood up and look forward to get a check on the sky. I have the ball socket locked in the right position now and won't screw up again. It was painful to see I had missed everything. The engine is running a tad rich as I was still needing some break in time. I should be able to go for the gusto Sunday.
I have put on a APC 4.75 x 4 combat prop will take two of those to the field for Sunday expect 21.5k unloaded 80 mph and 2 Cox 4.5 x 4's along with todays prop 2 of the 5.75 x 3's just in case thrust is more useful than speed 2 MA 5.5 x 4. I was able to put back 298 mah into the 4 cell 400mah pack (which can be peaked at .1amp to 458 mah) I didn't push the servos to hard some rudder movements to try knife edge and in vertical climbs pushed to a tail wagging stalls. Flaps twice and on landings with throttle play.
About 14 mins in total air time as the last flight the glow plug came loose and the engine died with 1/3rd fuel in the tank. I would imagine 4 flights should be safe.
I have put on a APC 4.75 x 4 combat prop will take two of those to the field for Sunday expect 21.5k unloaded 80 mph and 2 Cox 4.5 x 4's along with todays prop 2 of the 5.75 x 3's just in case thrust is more useful than speed 2 MA 5.5 x 4. I was able to put back 298 mah into the 4 cell 400mah pack (which can be peaked at .1amp to 458 mah) I didn't push the servos to hard some rudder movements to try knife edge and in vertical climbs pushed to a tail wagging stalls. Flaps twice and on landings with throttle play.
About 14 mins in total air time as the last flight the glow plug came loose and the engine died with 1/3rd fuel in the tank. I would imagine 4 flights should be safe.
02-14-2015, 09:58 PM
#308
Thread Starter
Yes lots of crazy antics will ensue. I am tiptoeing watching battery use making sure the engine is going to stay running in the end I will set up for stunt flaps right now its only set up to drop for landings and for slow flight with the throttle in putt putt mode. So far everything is staying tight the micro ez connectors. The 5.75 x 3 was causing some vibrations today. I need to find a prop I can live with and want to try another muffler with a exhaust tap for pressure. I will try some spins and typical 4 channel acro pushing the batteries/ servos harder to find out their yield under max loads. Stunt flaps are great for extreme abrupt 90's inverted and verted and fast triangle loops are possible. I will need to practice and get to know the plane. Will post a vid after I can entertain some alpha level flying with it.
02-15-2015, 01:55 AM
#309
What rpm's do you get with the 5.75x3 prop?
On the TD 05RC I got somewhere around 17200rpm (on 10% nitro and the APC 5.7x3) and it didn't need any muffler pressure with the stock carb. I could never get it to be more than an average sports engine though, so I swapped it out for a Norvel .061, night and day difference in terms of power...
On the TD 05RC I got somewhere around 17200rpm (on 10% nitro and the APC 5.7x3) and it didn't need any muffler pressure with the stock carb. I could never get it to be more than an average sports engine though, so I swapped it out for a Norvel .061, night and day difference in terms of power...
Last edited by Mr Cox; 02-15-2015 at 06:20 AM.
02-15-2015, 02:21 AM
#310
Oh, and congratulations to both a great build and a successful maiden! 
The battery drain sounds a little odd to me...
A 298mAh drawn during 14minutes of flight would equal more than one 1A average current draw during those 14 minutes (!)
I have had problems with a short lifespan from the NiMh batteries, especially the smaller ones. They are only good about a year or two, and then I don't fly very often either. So you might have a poor battery (and they will only get worse) or a stalling servo. I lost a plane once due to a stalled throttle servo (linkage interference), the plane did about ten consecutive loops at lower and lower height until it hit water...
The battery drain sounds a little odd to me...
A 298mAh drawn during 14minutes of flight would equal more than one 1A average current draw during those 14 minutes (!)
I have had problems with a short lifespan from the NiMh batteries, especially the smaller ones. They are only good about a year or two, and then I don't fly very often either. So you might have a poor battery (and they will only get worse) or a stalling servo. I lost a plane once due to a stalled throttle servo (linkage interference), the plane did about ten consecutive loops at lower and lower height until it hit water...
Last edited by Mr Cox; 02-15-2015 at 06:21 AM.
02-15-2015, 06:17 AM
#311
Thread Starter
Thank you Kris, its good to get that dreaded trim flight out the way when doing a design build!
The battery drain on 5 servos may be ok considering I peaked out the pack the night before and they are brand new a few cycles in may start having them settle. I do have some load linkage wise one aileron was being fussy using torque rods and the elevator control rod is rubbing through the formers. My peak charger is set in milk mode at 10 mah and eeks out the best numbers possible. Prior to flying I dialed in the engine with the APC 5.75 x 3 and saw 17,338 / 25% nitro with the muffler shown more restrictive than the Cox RC muffler but very light at 8g is why its in use and for a pressure tap. The first two flights had me at an empty tank to find out duration and proof of use with a pressure tap. The needle is set a little rich as the engine doesnt have much run time on it. 14mins in the air and about another 5mins on the ground altogether counting a preflight range check. These Sanik 2.3rd AAA are new tech given their rating at 400mah peaking with the Accucell charger at 458 mah. I am in tiptoe mode watching the battery and will limit myself again to 3 flights today to find a discharge pattern.
The battery drain on 5 servos may be ok considering I peaked out the pack the night before and they are brand new a few cycles in may start having them settle. I do have some load linkage wise one aileron was being fussy using torque rods and the elevator control rod is rubbing through the formers. My peak charger is set in milk mode at 10 mah and eeks out the best numbers possible. Prior to flying I dialed in the engine with the APC 5.75 x 3 and saw 17,338 / 25% nitro with the muffler shown more restrictive than the Cox RC muffler but very light at 8g is why its in use and for a pressure tap. The first two flights had me at an empty tank to find out duration and proof of use with a pressure tap. The needle is set a little rich as the engine doesnt have much run time on it. 14mins in the air and about another 5mins on the ground altogether counting a preflight range check. These Sanik 2.3rd AAA are new tech given their rating at 400mah peaking with the Accucell charger at 458 mah. I am in tiptoe mode watching the battery and will limit myself again to 3 flights today to find a discharge pattern.
02-15-2015, 06:32 AM
#312
Thread Starter
Last summer I had a bad rx switch or connector and the Lil Speedy started to fly in a wide climbing circle a wind gust caught it at about 140 ft up, tipped over the wing and it spiral smacked into the ground the ply fuselage held up but the glue joint for the horizontal stab broke free and broke the prop lucky for me I wasn't flying near water. Did you go for a swim or wait for the wind to push the plane back to shore?
02-15-2015, 07:04 AM
#313
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Tales of mystery - including my own - surrounding small NiMH cells are the reason I scrapped all my 300 and 220 packs. Too much random BS handling them for my taste. I even had built an adjustable current regulator for 10-30ma charge rates and was treating them as kindly as I could, but found they were too much of a PITA for my tastes. I'll start grumbling about small LiPo's first time I have a problem.. haven't had to yet, knock on wood.
02-15-2015, 08:25 AM
#314
The impact broke the wooden prop and bent the shaft (Enya 09 engine), but the plane was fine.
I'm trying LiFe batteries now (700mAh, 2S, and a 5V regulator) there is no weight advantage to talk about, but the battery technology is hopefully better with lower self-discharge and faster charging.
02-15-2015, 10:32 AM
#315
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I am currently getting acquainted with a few things:
- small LiFe 6.6v packs
- 1S LiPo with step up regulator (so far so good on the Toucan)
- 2S Lipo with Novak 3A regulator (works great)
- SmartLiPo 250/500 (playing on the bench looks good so far, no air time yet)
I am pretty sure the LiFe pack naked is going to be fine - so many people report the same so I have no worries.
The "250" mAh SmartLiPo is 11.9g. the 500 not much more (15-16 I forget). I put the 250 in quotation marks because I'm not sure if the LiPo cell is 250mAh or the net output is 250mAh. With the step up it has to be one or the other. Either way it's lots of capacity for small Rx packs.
- small LiFe 6.6v packs
- 1S LiPo with step up regulator (so far so good on the Toucan)
- 2S Lipo with Novak 3A regulator (works great)
- SmartLiPo 250/500 (playing on the bench looks good so far, no air time yet)
I am pretty sure the LiFe pack naked is going to be fine - so many people report the same so I have no worries.
The "250" mAh SmartLiPo is 11.9g. the 500 not much more (15-16 I forget). I put the 250 in quotation marks because I'm not sure if the LiPo cell is 250mAh or the net output is 250mAh. With the step up it has to be one or the other. Either way it's lots of capacity for small Rx packs.
02-15-2015, 11:30 AM
#316
Thread Starter
The 11g smart lipo is in the Lil speedy great weight savings. I have been tempted to get another one and replace the cell with one of the narrow 1000mah cells for the Skorch.
02-15-2015, 02:26 PM
#317
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I checked my notes, a 300mAh 1S + HK step up regulator weighs the same as the 250 Smart Lipo. As the 500mAh is only a tiny bit heavier, I'd be tempted to use it anytime there is space, just to be decadent and greedy on Rx pack capacity.
And the pull to arm switch is the coolest thing. For those that haven't seen them, the battery cable can be disconnected from the circuit board for storage, but when connected they are fine for days, until you remove the shorting plug to turn it on. So you can mount it flush to the fuselage side, with a tiny port for the arming plug; When you set up to fly, plug in the battery, button it up, and pull the "remove before launch" plug when you need to.
When the first one craps out on me and I plant an airplane, I'll consider changing my opinion then. So far so good though.
And the pull to arm switch is the coolest thing. For those that haven't seen them, the battery cable can be disconnected from the circuit board for storage, but when connected they are fine for days, until you remove the shorting plug to turn it on. So you can mount it flush to the fuselage side, with a tiny port for the arming plug; When you set up to fly, plug in the battery, button it up, and pull the "remove before launch" plug when you need to.
When the first one craps out on me and I plant an airplane, I'll consider changing my opinion then. So far so good though.
02-15-2015, 06:49 PM
#318
Thread Starter
Welp it rained this morning, I did managed to get out between the drizzle for another try. 
Test flight APC 4.75 x 4 Set needle peak at 18330 rpm with cox RC carb. Launched with 6 clicks down elevator close call on the save. This vid is more of a trim flight cut short was loading up and needed some needle tweaking. Best pass down wind 5 to 7 mph breeze 18,476 rpm theoretical 69.98 mph. I removed the muffler static test 18,872 rpm will vid next with no muffler if unloaded at 21k rpm 79.55 mph. Look forward to more efforts next weekend and some sunshine to improve visibility and vid click on HD to see best view from today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bA2YvWnjxU
Test flight APC 4.75 x 4 Set needle peak at 18330 rpm with cox RC carb. Launched with 6 clicks down elevator close call on the save. This vid is more of a trim flight cut short was loading up and needed some needle tweaking. Best pass down wind 5 to 7 mph breeze 18,476 rpm theoretical 69.98 mph. I removed the muffler static test 18,872 rpm will vid next with no muffler if unloaded at 21k rpm 79.55 mph. Look forward to more efforts next weekend and some sunshine to improve visibility and vid click on HD to see best view from today.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bA2YvWnjxU
Last edited by Pond Skipper; 02-15-2015 at 06:54 PM.
02-15-2015, 08:10 PM
#319
PS...your plane does look rock solid and smooth. Looks like you could enter a pylon race with it right now..!
I'm going to eventually talk you into practicing launching left handed. It just takes a little bit of convincing to see the virtues.
The camera footage was excellent. I've held off on ordering a new camera until now.
I'm going to eventually talk you into practicing launching left handed. It just takes a little bit of convincing to see the virtues.
The camera footage was excellent. I've held off on ordering a new camera until now.
02-15-2015, 08:52 PM
#320
Thread Starter
Thank you yesterdays flight left me with a odd trim change or perhaps the smaller dia prop or lack of rpm but the launch was almost a splat. I was only able to fly once and a short one as the clouds started filling up for another round of rain. Two out of the 3 launches yesterday went just fine with enough thrust to climb right out. Im looking forward to dialing in the rpm. I have ordered some APC 4.5 x 4 props. The 4.75D shows good promise with enough thrust without the muffler so will try that next Sat.
Last edited by Pond Skipper; 02-15-2015 at 09:02 PM.
02-15-2015, 10:01 PM
#321
Low wing with high thrust line will cause planes to nose over upon hand launch release. If you were to lower the engine some, there would be less tendency for the model to "dip" upon release.
Every P-51 I've ever built for hand launches has done this to some degree, especially when the engine is mounted inverted with the highest possible thrust line. A .32 powered P-51 was the worst, it actually behaved better at launch with reduced power.
Every P-51 I've ever built for hand launches has done this to some degree, especially when the engine is mounted inverted with the highest possible thrust line. A .32 powered P-51 was the worst, it actually behaved better at launch with reduced power.
02-15-2015, 10:10 PM
#322
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So far I have braved underhand left hand launches on well powered models only, although I may have tossed an old timer or other gas bag goofy-handed at one time or another.
This is exactly what caused me to cartwheel and crunch the nose on a HET ME-163 that torqued rolled left on me as I fumbled for the tranny. I did just buy one of those Esprit trays though - it feels pretty good, but we're having a bit of a cold snap today so no flying. -27, -40 wind chill, 15mph winds. No way Jose!
This is exactly what caused me to cartwheel and crunch the nose on a HET ME-163 that torqued rolled left on me as I fumbled for the tranny. I did just buy one of those Esprit trays though - it feels pretty good, but we're having a bit of a cold snap today so no flying. -27, -40 wind chill, 15mph winds. No way Jose!
02-15-2015, 11:09 PM
#323
Thread Starter
Yes that is very true CP but I have positive incidence to counteract that effect all that prop wash on top of the airfoil rather than splitting it. I have minimal down thrust just a hair. I think the flaps may have migrated up perhaps from Sat. flight I had to dial in 6 clicks it was wayyy off. I have a nice TX case to avoid mishaps with the trims this was a shocker.
Mike bummer on the weather you are just so far north there is no way to avoid it. Do you folks have a indoor club there for electrics?
Weather pending next Sat. I hope to redeem a good vid of what it can do. The torque roll is gone I have nudge a hair right rudder and aileron it was tracking straight out of the hand Sat. It is possible the larger dia prop was pushing enough wash under the wing to allow the trims to work Sat and not today do to dropping down to a 4.75D. It has been a struggle this weekend working out other bugs beyond just flying the craft.
- round tank rotated do to vibrations / fixed
- nipple on the RC carb broke off / fixed
- fuel flow not steady
- APC 5.75 x 3 caused too much vibrations and loaded the ball socket
- reset ball socket
- video camera view angle not set up right / fixed
- glow plug and cylinder both loose do to the 5.75D / fixed using two wrenches
- had to redo the retainers for the wheels they started to slip
- cell phone battery dying causing abrupt shut off and loss wifi link to cam (bought a new batt tonight)
- forced to run with no muffler to get enough power to go vertical on a small prop - gooville will abound
- it took 3 trips to the flying field to get one short vid under dark skies
Other than that hey Im breathing and get to fly the Skorch next weekend weather pending.
Had there been some sun these shots would have been in focus and with color / camera set at 1080 HD
Mike bummer on the weather you are just so far north there is no way to avoid it. Do you folks have a indoor club there for electrics?
Weather pending next Sat. I hope to redeem a good vid of what it can do. The torque roll is gone I have nudge a hair right rudder and aileron it was tracking straight out of the hand Sat. It is possible the larger dia prop was pushing enough wash under the wing to allow the trims to work Sat and not today do to dropping down to a 4.75D. It has been a struggle this weekend working out other bugs beyond just flying the craft.
- round tank rotated do to vibrations / fixed
- nipple on the RC carb broke off / fixed
- fuel flow not steady
- APC 5.75 x 3 caused too much vibrations and loaded the ball socket
- reset ball socket
- video camera view angle not set up right / fixed
- glow plug and cylinder both loose do to the 5.75D / fixed using two wrenches
- had to redo the retainers for the wheels they started to slip
- cell phone battery dying causing abrupt shut off and loss wifi link to cam (bought a new batt tonight)
- forced to run with no muffler to get enough power to go vertical on a small prop - gooville will abound
- it took 3 trips to the flying field to get one short vid under dark skies
Other than that hey Im breathing and get to fly the Skorch next weekend weather pending.
Had there been some sun these shots would have been in focus and with color / camera set at 1080 HD
02-15-2015, 11:37 PM
#324
Thread Starter
Chuck have you found a good head cam / you mentioned (till now) perhaps indicating a upgrade about to me made?
I would like a lock on type camera that will auto zoom on transponder signal from the plane.
User could select a preset zoom at target to keep the plane in a 30% size format to frame ratio as an example..... geez would sell like hot cakes!
I am looking at a 2080 DPI 60 FPS really the only way to go with small fast planes otherwise only sunny weather with true 1080 dpi will yield reasonable footage.
I would like a lock on type camera that will auto zoom on transponder signal from the plane.
User could select a preset zoom at target to keep the plane in a 30% size format to frame ratio as an example..... geez would sell like hot cakes!
I am looking at a 2080 DPI 60 FPS really the only way to go with small fast planes otherwise only sunny weather with true 1080 dpi will yield reasonable footage.
02-16-2015, 06:03 PM
#325
PS..I can't find many specs on my Sony HandyCam 100 to compare with newer cameras. The Sony put up some decent video if I did my part to aim it and get the zoom set right. I ought to find out what the Sony's specs are, because when it was working right it was good enough for me....[but awfully heavy to wear on top of your head.]
I don't want the replacement camera to be inferior to the Sony, but also don't want to buy more camera than I need.
MJD, that's the way to go...I'm sure it feels awkward to launch lefty...but it ought to feel pretty nice to have your right thumb totally in charge with no delay.
I don't want the replacement camera to be inferior to the Sony, but also don't want to buy more camera than I need.
MJD, that's the way to go...I'm sure it feels awkward to launch lefty...but it ought to feel pretty nice to have your right thumb totally in charge with no delay.