Pond Skipper

Back in 1966 OS through World Engines here in the US started selling what at the time was the "New Standard" for small engines gone are the two piece
engine cases as OS had some up with a single case engine for a new .10 size engine like their larger engines. The Max .10 carb was a miniature version
less an air bleed of the bigger engines at the time. Cut to today I have source another one of these engines with the small wee carb perfect for the .05,.06 and .07 class car engines. I must say I was very impressed with the compression of the old iron piston the engine is in great shape fit and finish. It has 128 deg timing could swing a 7x4 at 16k easy to start and for its day making great power for a sport engine. I felt bad robbing the wee carb off it but the barrel is bored out perfect for the car engines. Today's modern .10 size engine are much bigger and weigh a lot more. So I oiled up the engine and bagged it up bless it's little iron heart.

I save almost 10g and gained more prop clearance for a more common width prop plate. Shown next to a OS .10 carb from the 90's

Mr Cox

I like the OS .10FSR one, it just bugs me that they couldn't be bothered to complete the air bleed on it....

aspeed

I'll bet that they tried it with an air bleed, and it made no difference. I have found all the OS stuff idles and transitions pretty good with whatever carbs they have. They are one of the few companies that won't ship out motors that are untested IMHO. I have on old OS .15 that looks about the same vintage as the one that the carb is raided from. It goes almost as good as the newer stuff. It would make a good control line motor. That is always a bit of dizzy fun. At least the dizzy part is a buzz if nothing else.

Mr Cox

Haha, well I guess it is just guess work now but they have the same carb body as the .15 (you can see the bulge for the air-bleed on the .10 carb too). On the later FP models they did make the air-bleed also on the .10, not only the .15 engines. So I am leaning towards them trying to save a dime or two....

Pond Skipper

Yes they do retro fit for either .10 or .15 I have both guess OS wanted to save money and stop making the .10 carb.

I now have 3 Vertigo .07 engines I need to research them a bit but here are is findings thus far.
The piston rod is aluminum like the Picco. Has a two part head so one has options to use or not use cut down fins. Above all this .07 will swing more prop or more pitch depending what you want. On line reads of 39,746k need to dig up the stats.

The Mecoa back plate is slightly smaller than the stock back plate. The stock one can be best used after removing the one way bearing and starter bolt (saves 5.5g in weight) making this a good spot to use a pressure tap or just seal it. The engine comes with a stop plate usable as a prop plate / can use the Mecoa prop plate and spinner. No turbo head has 3 ports in the sleeve and a exhaust port.

8.5mm crank dia. and fuel / air 5mm



does come with a header pipe you can cut the curve out and use what ever exhaust system makes you happy

Pond Skipper

Next to the .05 the 07 weighs in at 76.8g less its back plate.




I snagged 3 of these on ebay average cost came to $14 ea. shipped.

170deg exhaust timing.


Here as an option using the stock carb (as it has a low end needle) I had to put
a 90deg pressure tap for a remote needle so the prop will clear. I made the first
cut on the pipe with the exhaust facing down for a base readings on the bench.
Would be a good option for folks not wanting to use a pipe. I hope to spin
a 4.75x4 at around 30k static. 33k /25 oz of thrust unloaded 125mph
Went with 3 fins on the head and still need to trim down the back plate.
This arrangement only needs the Mecoa prop plate and spinner. I had to
cut down the venturi so the 90deg fuel nipple could be rotated down tight.
In this configuration total weight as shown 98g. Norvel .074 with prop, spinner
and muffler 96.3g

Shaft dia. difference 7mm vs 8.5mm
Robart makes a nice high pressure tee connector in lieu of not having the right size pressure tap.
Normally used on their retract systems the bore is very small, the 3rd nipple makes good for a bleeder
line for fuel overflow once the tank is topped off. Sold in 4 packs tee and in line connectors.
061 Norvel size engine mount.

aspeed

I think a dime or three, there is a spring needed, two holes to drill, one to tap, and deburr. Multiply this times maybe 10,000 motors. My old .10 LAs at least seem to idle pretty good with no screw. It for sure is a cost saving measure. If you look at a Fora, they are just overdesign everything they do. Shorten the crank, less material, less machining, less weight, then shorten the needle valve, less material, doesn't get bent as easy, lighter... After a few years and many changes, it is cheaper, lighter and faster.

Pond Skipper

Vertigo .07 aka CXP Venom .07 / 1.14cc

.65hp at 31,000 rpm

- Audio tach at full throttle 39,746 rpm 30% nitro.
- Non SPI / 170 deg. exhaust timing
- Low and remote high speed needle

Current weight 103g ready to test.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

It looks like something you would see in the Jegs Racing catalogue..!

Pond Skipper

ye old transformation shot

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

They must use ice filled aluminum tubing to make such a tight bend...?
The full boogey set up looks well engineered.
Hopefully the car engine market continues to carry the torch into the future. I'd like to see what they can come up with by 2035.

Pond Skipper

Ice dunno perhaps sand filled or high pressure water.

1/6th cars originally started with cox .049 engines to full cast .05 then the .06 and finely the .07 all staying the same size to be a direct swap out. Still plenty of engine parts out there for the .07 for improving / tinkering. I have a CY .06 in the mail to see what approach they took. The .07 is out there new for 44 bucks the CY for 26. Electrics is driving the market yet the wee IC engines are still popular in some countries.

aspeed

I never heard of the CY .06, and can't seem to find it on a search. I am more interested in a strong .049 for the control line speed class. I have no place to fly it, but would like to know anyway. A nice rear exhaust one would be cool for $50 or so. Even the Picco .05 does not quite fit in the class.

Pond Skipper

Yea the Picco is .052

Full case.049 size in car engines do not exist these days. It would be a wonderful thing if they could make a half size of the .06 class shrunk down full case engine with all the same design aspects. The rpm would be up there perhaps 45k + Call it the .029 Viper .32hp at 42K

Here is a link to the CY.06 it is actually 1.14cc
I like it because it takes the same header pipe as the Picco, Fuji, Sportswerk engines and is actually .0696 cu. in
Bought 1 to test on the Aug.18th I would imagine it will take about a month to get here. May go by air as it came with a
tracking number and shipping cost 16.99 most times shipping is free.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/251970940136...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Rather sneaky on the displacement even has a 06 on the side of the engine.
There is the VERTEX VX 06 MINIATURE NITRO ENGINE 1 cc 0.06
Also note there are no footings like the Vertigo engine, should save 7g perhaps.

CY .06 CHUANGYANG

aspeed

Hmm, works out to $60 Canadian with the $18 shipping in US$. Looks ok though.

Pond Skipper

Open up the carb some and cut the header to fit 1/4th wave pipe 113g as shown.







If unloaded:
32k with a 5x4
29oz thrust
.59hp /433w
121 mph

4.75x4 at 34.5k
.6hp / 442w
28oz thrust
131mph

4.5x5 at 34k
.58hp / 426w
21oz thrust
161mph

Mr Cox

That sounds a bit too high for the .074 Norvel, in my notes I have it at 75g with stock muffler and spinner. I think the power to weight ratio of that engine is pretty hard to beat...

Pond Skipper

I have been weighing engines with props and spinners / comparable ready to use.



Big Mig .074
Specs: Weight as shown 96.3g
Power: .38 hp @ 22,000 rpm
283w / 2.94w per gram

Vertigo .07 aka CXP Venom .07 / 1.14cc
Specs: Weight as shown 104.2g
Power: .65hp at 31,000 rpm
478w / 4.58w per gram

- Audio tach at full throttle 39,746 rpm 30% nitro.

Mr Cox

That's strange, but it looks like you have a non-stock head and spinner on the Norvel there?
(the prop might be larger too?)

What prop did you use to get 39,746rpm?

Mr Cox

Another strong engine, if you get a good one, is the CS/G&Z .061. I've fitted a carb on mine and it does 20700rpm on the APC 5.7x3 on 10% nitro. That's with an open exhaust though.

Mr Cox

That's numbers well worthy of a .15 sports engine...

Is that from the audio tach?

aspeed

If those numbers are right, I may have to part with some money. I know the Picco .12 I converted to a plane motor outperformed all my .15s including the Fora when the pipe was on. An .07? Those little APC props may not push as much air as you hope too. They are pretty thin. I have a couple CS motors that are strong, and a GZ that is a dud. The head made a huge difference, like 8,000 rpm from my worst example. Looks liek the Norvel .07 head has a conversion to a plug. If it is a turbo, all would be fine.

MJD

My Feedback: (1)

Where are all these numbers coming from? Your tests or some other data?

Pond Skipper

Norvel has the stock head fins but the plug has a threaded adapter I like the look of a Cox .09 spinner / round hex head bolt APC 6x3.
The max rpm was online audio tach of a 1/16th car at full throttle with the .07

I have the .061 CS RC Race and CL Race engines, also the Sport .061 RC and CL engines managed to source them all on ebay.
The carb looks good on the CL Race Kris, I would imagine a 4.5x4 would allow it to unload to 27k + on a pipe with 25% nitro.

The 07 is the last in the line of engine designs derived from what was developed during the rein of the 05's and .06's
"If unloaded" numbers come from plugging in props keeping close to the hp base line manufacturers spec data of .065hp at 31K
http://personal.osi.hu/fuzesisz/strc_eng/


Knowing the engine can handle 39.74k rpm continuously in a stock car it was just a matter of hugging the spec hp rating to get the rpm value.
To stay realistic I estimated for unloaded rpm. The Skorch II should be a real step forward in speed over the 1/2A Skorch.

Carbon "APC 4.75x4.75 EC"
If unloaded:
32.5K / 24oz thrust
.6hp / 439w
146 mph

Pond Skipper

New lighter weight .05 used a thrust plate from the .07 spare next to the scale has a sub footing to the bearing and a AP Wasp Spinner.
Also comparison shot of the .07's



Has anyone tried the APC Carbon Props?