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Ply Rolled Fuselage Part Deux - 1/2A " Mini Skorch "

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Ply Rolled Fuselage Part Deux - 1/2A " Mini Skorch "

Old 01-16-2016, 09:20 PM
  #1276  
Pond Skipper
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Tested a TT GP-10 has 160 deg timing but no bearings
I bought it new off ebay for 14 dollars cheap bid / was
for parts to rob the RC carb and thrust plate originally.
The carb on it now came from another .10 barrel needs
bored out to match the intake typical over sized for a 15.

With a 20 size pipe set for 23k / APC Combat 6.5x3.7 / 19,460 / .28hp / 2.2lbs thrust
Results after 1 rich run of 3oz. 20% nitro / 20% oil


ABC engine. Has a bronze bushing on the rod so tried
the modified MAS 5.22 x 6 / 18,603 / 106 mph
Well within a safe rpm range will do better with a 5.25x6.25

Specs:
Displacement: 1.75 cc. / 0.107 cu. in.
Bore: 13.4 mm. / 0.528 in.
Stroke: 12.4 mm. / 0.488 in.
Crankshaft: M5x0.8
Practical RPM: 2,500 ~ 18,000
Output: 0.27 BHP / 17,000 RPM
Weight: w/o muffler / 5.71 oz /162g.

Here it is the carb has a good size intake with air bleed.
The nipple is steel unlike plastic in the pic.


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Last edited by Pond Skipper; 01-17-2016 at 03:13 AM.
Old 01-17-2016, 03:28 AM
  #1277  
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In retrospect the TT GP-10 comes in at 162g no muffler no bearings
The AP 09 -bearings, pipe / coupler and prop 179g reading should be
less a bit of rubber under the engine for balance on the scale.




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Old 01-17-2016, 05:25 AM
  #1278  
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My TT G 10 is in the disappointment drawer. I could barely get my (admittedly heavy) plane off the ground. I like the header you have on there though. Maybe I could try something like that on a few things. It would be nice to have a bit of an angle to clear most fuselages, but I like the hex stock idea better than the square that I normally use, as a three jaw chuck would make things quicker.
Old 01-17-2016, 09:34 AM
  #1279  
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CNC Manifold for Nitro Engine Side Exhaust:

I used a 90 deg nipple this one has 27mm spacing for 3mm bolts. $9.99 plus shipping.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Silver-Anodised-CNC-Manifold-for-16-18-Nitro-Engine-Side-Exhaust-/190456029520?hash=item2c58106150:g:x4MAAMXQpPhTjxy x



I hear ya Alan,
Many folks including myself have mounted a .10 size engine on a plane and
expected
good results given the size of the engine frame and weight fool you in thinking there is
plenty of power on tap. You have to plan the design and prop combo well to get the
most out of the set up.



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Old 01-17-2016, 11:05 AM
  #1280  
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Originally Posted by Pond Skipper
In retrospect the TT GP-10 comes in at 162g no muffler no bearings
The AP 09 -bearings, pipe / coupler and prop 179g reading should be
less a bit of rubber under the engine for balance on the scale.
That doesn't sound right, did you weight your TT .10 engine, or take a peak into the exhaust port?

The regular TT .10GP engine is of ABN type, it weights 133g (complete with glowplug and prop nut, and stock carb) and the stock muffler weights 34g (with the two bolts), so a total of about 167g in stock form. At least according to my notes...

The carb looks a bit like the one you would find on the KB .18 engine?

Last edited by Mr Cox; 01-17-2016 at 11:09 AM.
Old 01-17-2016, 11:16 AM
  #1281  
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The specs came from a British web site I just copy pasted their data to confirm
I have mine weighed as shown: 160.1g

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Old 01-17-2016, 11:43 AM
  #1282  
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That's a real Franken engine then.
Guess the header and the larger carb all add up. Any websites most likely cite the weight including muffler, you can't trust what you read on the web...

If you have the KB .18 carb, it is has a much larger bore compared to the stock carb. I've had problems with the fuel draw even on the KB engines. Here is a comparison of the two carbs;

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Old 01-17-2016, 12:03 PM
  #1283  
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I played with the TT .10 and .15 and just could not get any performance out of them at all. Not even average. Tried new heads, bigger carbs etc. I just put in an FP and LA and they really woke up. I think I will make a few manifolds when I get some time. I like that way. Very simple on my turret lathe, and only a little trouble on the mill. Maybe some mousse can mufflers or some kind of pipes are in the future. Too bad the wing folded up on my little guy, I have nothing left to put the .10s in.
Old 01-17-2016, 12:06 PM
  #1284  
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The carb on the right is the one I am using.
Yes carb, manifold, spinner nut and prop.
I want to try the prop shown MAS 5.5x4.5 when
I have a moment off to go flying for now.

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Old 01-17-2016, 06:32 PM
  #1285  
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Today I field tested the APC 4.2x4 do to size of plane if hasnt been an option really
however I was curious how much rpm I could get with the pipe.

20% nitro and oil / 58 degs outside partly sunny.

Best read - APC 4.2x4

- 25,597 static / .15 hp / 9.2 oz thrust flew out of the hand ok due to wing span.
- 29,877 level pass from a dive / 113 mph
- 28,983 no dive level /110 mph
- 27,967 slowest pass into wind 106 mph / wind 7 to 9 gusts to 14 per weather.

An all balsa Quickie 100 should allow the prop to make into 31k range.

Small prop was slipping no sustained vertical great for in your face flying
fuel flow was good after first flights adjusting a bit more rich. Actual speed
was down in the low 90's but good for lots of acro box flying climb would
die off early from a dive perhaps 140ft. I made two landings with the engine
still running, grass is low this time of year.




One of the landings use link for full screen:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIvH4Qtz9WY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIvH4Qtz9WY All data to date:

APC
4.2x4...............25.60k static / 29.88k - 113 mph
5x3..................25.47k static / 28.47k - 081
4.5x4...............23.98k static / 27.63k - 105
4.75x4.75EC.. 22.86k static / 26.64k - 120 - best visible performance
4.75x4.............23.58k static / 26.48k - 100
5x5E...............20.43k static / 24.94k - 118
4.75x5.5E.......21.56k static / 23.60k - 123



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjpUpDBluRk
Published on Jan 17, 2016
Recorded at 60 fps wide screen / 1080P reduced to 240P by YouTube
Shown in lower resolution for lag free viewing of the planes speed on all devices.
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Last edited by Pond Skipper; 01-17-2016 at 11:58 PM.
Old 01-18-2016, 08:55 PM
  #1286  
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That was a real nice landing..!
You found the best use I've seen so far for those 4.75 x 4.75s.
Old 01-18-2016, 09:36 PM
  #1287  
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Yes flights on the last two vids was done with the 4.2x4 however last night I took the prop off
and put back the carbon 4.75x4.75EC I want to use the data logger to check the speed.

I have on order some 4.75x4.2E to use for 27k + running. The engine wont be pushed as
hard as with the thicker airfoil from the 4.75x4 1/2A prop. Pipe is doing its best work at
above 27k to 29k per the readings / engine heat and ease of the needle settings.
The 4.75x4.75 in the summer is pushing the engine to a richer run. I think this time of year
the engine is going to do its best with it. The 4.75x4.2E might be a good all around prop
in the summer.
Old 01-19-2016, 05:53 AM
  #1288  
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The 4.75 - 4.75 E is the one that the mouse race guys use. It is fast and gets the best economy too. I think it is a bit small for an .09 or .10, but might be perfect for an .06 or .07 too.
Old 01-19-2016, 10:58 PM
  #1289  
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Yes I have read that too Alan, the carbon 4.75x4.75 could do well with the Norvel .074 and TD .09 however
the AP .09 with the Russian pipe thus far shines best with the APC 4.75 x 5.5E / 22.24 static / 116 mph
CL line loading vs RC at speed vs overall weight of plane type makes cross pollination of that
prop possible. I was curious what the prop can handle in actual use so I found this..

5s Viper getting near 200 mph with the standard grey 4.75x4.75 more than double the watts
the .07 Vertigo can generate. If you can keep the weight down larger size engine could be used.
Static 54,000 rpm / good size plane suggests its over 18oz of dead weight load on the prop.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DuTI7UvkK0

Last edited by Pond Skipper; 01-19-2016 at 11:02 PM.
Old 01-20-2016, 04:26 AM
  #1290  
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I am surprised that the prop holds up at those rpms. I am sure it is over the chart they give out in the package. ;-) Must be hard to see at those speeds. I have trouble at about 100mph with the little ones. The .09 and .12 may get the best speeds on the little props, I just had a rod get very sloppy quickly on my little AP .15 at only 25,000 rpm and worry about the motor letting go. I guess it is something to laugh about later. They are only $35 after all.
Old 01-20-2016, 06:47 AM
  #1291  
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What prop / fuel mix did you use?
How heavy and size is the plane?
Got a pic of the craft?
Old 01-20-2016, 01:08 PM
  #1292  
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Here is the best landing thus far (at 2 mins in on the vid) lands with engine running on the 4.2x4 right up to me.
Took a few tries had to keep trimming down the idle more as the bird wants to keep flying.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ihc9M3fdDvM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ihc9M3fdDvM

Last edited by Pond Skipper; 01-20-2016 at 01:12 PM.
Old 01-20-2016, 05:24 PM
  #1293  
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Originally Posted by Pond Skipper
What prop / fuel mix did you use?
How heavy and size is the plane?
Got a pic of the craft?
Just saying generally 100mph, certainly not 200. Got some pics of some stuff though. Norvel .06 in the Simple 400 I forget what prop I use, 5-4 or so. Sig Wonder is pretty hard to see when it gets far away. Fox .15BB. 7-5 MA scimitar. Wild Thing LA .15 I think, 8-4 or 7-6. Nothing spectacular about any of them. Spad combat with a .40 FSR gets small quick with a 9-7. I just use 10 to 15% mostly. The control line stuff is limited to 10% now, so that is what I have around.
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Old 01-20-2016, 08:14 PM
  #1294  
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Hey I remember them Graupner Speed 400 engine stickers!! I had every winding type they sold in the 400 size cans and flew them with various battery types up to Nimh then went to brushless CD Rom motors and lipoly cells..never looked back. I like the scheme on the blue plane Im sure it showed up well in the sky.
Nice clean job on the SIG Wonder. Those Coroplast planes sure would be tough on the rods bushing being typically more heavy then there wood counter parts but great for fast builds and fuel prof and ready to rock


Well I have / had hopes for the AP .09 as its showing good performance with the APC 4.75 x 5.5E / 22.24 static / 116 mph My only worry is unlike the AP 15 it doesn't have a bronze bushing and you just said your's went sloppy at 25k. I will be all over that number with aluminum on steel. Looks like I will have to use generous amounts of oil to pull off using it for speed. I will have my fuel guy blend up some 20% nitro with 10% castor and 14% synthetic. Perhaps I can prop up to slow things down a hair.
Cut 5.25 to 4.8 x 6.25 / 20.5k / 121 mph static. / 23.8k unloaded / 141 mph on a light small clean craft.

Last edited by Pond Skipper; 01-20-2016 at 08:24 PM.
Old 01-20-2016, 08:50 PM
  #1295  
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Best prop tested so far for the V12RR / 6.5x5 / 22.8k / .532hp / 397w / 2.7lbs thrust / 108 mph

Static 6.5x6 / 21.8k / 124 mph / 24.6k unloaded / 140 mph / could trim to 6x6.

3 of these props came in the mail note it says for a .10 size engine for pylon
racing. I cant think of any .10 size engine that would work but the ASP .12
and OS .12 CV or Enya 11 CX preferably something with bearings.
The TR states 1.1hp at 36k within its practicable range.

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Old 01-21-2016, 06:35 AM
  #1296  
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There are a lot of car style .12's that are quite powerful as compared to what the airplane styles have on offer. Just the crankshafts are short, and the heads need to be trimmed. They seem to weigh about the same as a .15 too, which gives them a lot of negatives. They put out power like a good .15 though to be on the plus side. I don't mind weight if the power is there. As far as a heavy plane is concerned, a good solid mount is prefereable to anything flimsy, as the motor runs better. I don't think bearings would notice anything. We made solid motor mount crutches out of heavy aluminum castings, and the planes were quite heavy, using bass for wings, fuselages and tail surfaces. They really did not slow anything down. The proto (standing start) planes needed to be lighter though. An RC one is changing direction a lot, so weight is an issue, but I would still take power over a bit of weight-if you want to go fast. Picco and Novarossi come to mind for good .12 size motors. Fora makes a nice light .15, as well as some other F2D combat designs. They really shave the weight and put out power. No throttles. CP has used them with success for RC. I think the AP .09 rod bushing is left off for a reason. The piston is lighter than the .15, and there is less stress. I would keep the revs down to the low 20s, myself, as it is really a sport motor.
Old 01-21-2016, 09:04 PM
  #1297  
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Yes its a fine line size wise with some of the new .12 to .15 car engines
I do like the rpm they can make and want to do another conversion at some point.

For aircraft though the difference is still noticeable.
Example here the Magnum .15 vs the ASP .12

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Old 01-22-2016, 05:24 AM
  #1298  
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Those ASP.12/APs really are a nice design with the bypass ports in the liner. It makes the casting very small and light for a ball bearing motor. The .15 AP weighs about the same as a Fora because of those details. The Fora really spent some time removing weight with the stubby screw for the prop, and the spinner, short needle valve assembly. Just everything they could think of is minimalized. The blue head ASP is pretty chunky. It weighs about the same as the Fox BB which I put on a plane just for some extra noseweight.
Old 01-22-2016, 06:41 AM
  #1299  
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Magnum XLS .15A APC 7x5 MACS Tuned Pipe
Static 18,100 rpm / 86mph /.49hp / 2.3 lbs thrust / 366w
Break in mode - quick rpm check

Want to try:
APC 6.5x6.5 if at 21k unloaded 129mph
APC 6.5x6 if at 22k unloaded 125


.09 / 180g vs .12 / 221g

As shown ready to use




AP 09 / 1.5cc Tuned Pipe /APC 4 75x5.5 / 22.24k / 116mph Static
20% Nitro and Oil


ASP .12A / APC 5.25 x 6.25 /18,873 / 112 mph Static
20% nitro and oil
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Old 01-22-2016, 10:55 AM
  #1300  
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Those blue head #s look similar to mine. I used the MA prop and got just slightly less on the 7-5 at 17,600 and 17,900 on different occasions open exh. Just for interest's sake The turbo plug head that I made up got 20,500. A 7-6 was 17,600. I later opened up the carb to a control line type with F2D prop which was about a 6.3 - 5" and it went about 25,700. Really that was not a lot better than my AP .15 on that prop. I think the blue head one likes a bigger load. Just to confue you more. The AP .09 with a 7-5 was 12,800 and the same prop on the AP .15 was 15,700. The muffler sucked the .15 down to 13,300. The AP .09 7-4" 15,200 and the AP .15 with the same 7-4 is 21,400 and 22,100 with a pipe.

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