Pond Skipper

Ok great so these are small and that is the goal. The site states remove the wire lead
and the 3 min mount it will be reduce to 2g I plan to park it ontop of the RX and hard wire
it into place as a integral unit. The battery maybe tied in too leaving just enough lead out
for the switch and charging port.

6.6g system
- 2.7g RX
- 2g regulator
- 1.9g lipo 110 mah.

Total onboard should hit 25g all gear less plane.
Total onboard with the NANO is 47.2g
I just saved 22.2g ~

Ended ordering an extra set of everything I could swap out all gear from the NANO
and drop weight. Current 88g with fuel would go down to 65.8g / 2.32oz

The NANO wing is 45 Sq.In. it already lands with ease.
I plane to test the NANO's new prop today will post vid.
This maybe the last day of the NANO in its current confiq.

Time to put the TD .020 on the nose and a 8cc engine on the
Lil Speedy. I am ready to build the next gen TD .010,
The TD .020 has hit 37.3K rpm!! 3 x 3.5N will be perfect
with the NANO should do 39k and bust 130 mph.

Scaled the regulator down to apparent size without the wires
and 3 pin mount.

Pond Skipper

Beat the record looking at all the data.


2.7x3N

Best:
186.27 km h / 115.74 mph per doppler
Unloaded 39,754 rpm 112.94 mph per prop calc
Static 30,972rpm / 88mph / .035hp / 26w / 2.3 oz thrust

The thrust and rpm per plane drag and weight is
squeaking out a bit more speed. Many passes
hit 39k ish the narrow blade trick is paying off
for the last drops of thrust without hurting top
end too much. Pulled better in the turns and
speed into the wind did better too. Solid freight
train today. Scream with a punch of thrust.
Real treat to fly solid tracking machine.



The TD .02 can provide 3+oz of thrust and will give it
a constant speed over 110 mph so that's next for the NANO.

The other option is to outfit the NANO with some lighter weight
components. Leaving the big servos in makes it a shoe in for the .020.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Years ago the gang at N.A.S.S. were brainstorming a 65 sq inch .049 powered RC project and I figured they were being......a bit too optimistic.
Back then a 150 mah NICAD was about as small as I had any confidence in with a HITEK 555 RX.

Pond Skipper

I remember that one Chuck,

Hitec Micro 555

Type 5 Ch. Dual Conversion FM
Range 1+ Mile / 1.6 Km or more
Operating Voltage 4.8 - 6.0 volts
Current Drain 19 mA +/- 3.0 mA
Size L x W x H 1.6"x 1.1"x 0.7" / 40 x 28 x 17 mm
Weight w/ Case 0.75 ounce 21 grams
w/o Case 0.55 ounce 15 grams

The 80mah battery is light but still heavy for its dimensions.
The NANO is at 45 Sq. In. it is too much area at 3oz, could have
been 38 Sq. In. and done just fine do to airfoil thickness.

I have the new designs wing drawn up on graph paper counted the squares
and came up with 30.88 Sq. In. for the 2oz plane it will this is on the money.
Based on the NANO 45 Sq. In at 3oz comes out to 15 Sq. In. per oz.
The new version should in theory land just as easy if the airfoil thickness
remains the same.

65 Sq. In. / 15 would need the .049 plane to be 4.33 oz to land similar.
The airfoil could be a bit thicker and allow a 5 oz plane.

The Lil Speedy is getting a .8cc engine it has a 4x17 in wing with a cutout
for the inboard section of the ailerons I had estimated 65 Sq. In.
If I upgrade the battery to a lipo with a regulator I can get the plane to
5.5oz. RTF. The prop of choice would be a 3.7 x 5N at 30k / 142 mph.
Thrust at 24k static / 4.5oz

Pond Skipper

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9H7rZvIfJJA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9H7rZvIfJJA Published on Apr 25, 2016
Best Pass Data:
186.27 km h / 115.74 mph - per doppler
Unloaded 39,754 rpm 112.94 mph - per prop calc
Static 30,972rpm / 88mph / .035hp / 26w / 2.3 oz thrust

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

It's unbelievable that the .010 ends up being such a hot item that went unnoticed by 99% of the hobbyists all these years. I just thought they were conversation pieces and "trainer" engines if you were into Free Flight.

Pond Skipper

Its new dawn of change for speed use.
I think all TD's can be ran up well above the accepted norms.

The .010 and .020 have performed well and the .02 will hit 40k with the NANO
I think 36k + for a stock TD .049 will happen with a happy ball socket.
Keep the load down and enjoy the rpm. Must be prepared to mod props
If you build a small size 75 sq. in 1/2A it will need the .09 with a 4.4x6N / 36k / 204 mph

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

With the chosen materials that the .049 shares in common with the .020 and .010 I think the .049 "crosses the line" with the much larger internal stresses.
Where I've seen a little gain is by grabbing a running engine by the upper cylinder and holding it.
I've intended to make a "girdle" that holds the cylinder to the firewall, but never carried it out.

Pond Skipper

I will will try,
3.8 x 4.5N / 33k / 141 mph good for the first test with the Lil Speedy.
The wing will need to be moved forward a 1/2in to compensate for the weight gain.
I have a TD .051 with no mounting beams rather a back plate firewall mount will keep the
engine tucked up close to the firewall. I think a throttle sleeve will yield less weight then a RC carb
as its closer to the firewall. A unrestricted venturi should produce more power.
I will dig through the prop collection and mod something up to test for the weekend.

MJD

My Feedback: (1)

Handy that 4x4.5 is another popular quad racer prop size at the moment. You can get more pitch in the Eliminator line, up to 5" or so.

There should be gobs of data on breaking TD .049's compared to very little on .020's and perhaps none on .010's.. the speed and combat guys been there done that on the .049/.051 engines. How many have you nuked CP?

I wonder if the speed fliers get a kill marker tattooed on their shoulder whenever they break an engine..

Pond Skipper

I wont be dragging lines, using thick airfoils and changing course on a dime big plus. Weight will be lower and small prop:



Plastic carb body would drop weight, none apc prop could drop some more. Engines tucked up against the firewall. and no spinner on the end helps CG. Could tap a .020 spinner I have some options yet there.

Here is the engine in mind has a fine NV and exhaust throttle.
APC 4.1x4.1E could trim to 3.8 x 4.1N / 34k / 132 mph.
Of course the APC carbon props are much lighter



Shown with an aggressive back cut APC carbon est 32.1k / 137 mph
Half the weight of the standard grey prop with enough thrust to hold a
consistent 120+ all around the field. Will use standard piston and crank
to see how the metal holds up. The Killer TD will come out to play at
some point. the lighter crank and piston should allow some insane
.049 rpm for a TD.

Pond Skipper

3.5 x 4.75
ACE fine thread NV ended up being the lightest on hand.
Added a spring for some insurance. Saved 2.5g

If:
33k / 148 mph
26.5k static / 4.7oz thrust / 71w




Milled down cylinder and carbon prop
RTF 6.39 oz if no throttle servo and sleeve.
Only 16.1g more than the throttled TD .020.
Bit less once the prop is trimmed. Could just
run a bit rich for the trim flight then let it rip..

aspeed

My stock TD .049 with the 4.2 - 4 APC was up around 23,000 on 10% fuel so higher nitro and a lighter piston may help a bit. Don't forget that the crank is the weak spot on the TD .049. I had one go through the case. Not to worry, there are many more around to replace with. These are just gifts and spare parts to show what can happen. A lighter piston could be less stress on the crank so higher revs might be ok then. I am a fan of pitch more so than small diameters. We used 5 1/2" - 4 Cox grey props cut to about 4 3/8" and thinned out, back in the 1970s. Props have come a long way since then. The speed guys are going 140 mph now with 10% nitro with the .049s. The TD days are long gone though. Even a Norvel may be an easier go, not to mention the Profi, Fora, and CS stuff. As far as tattoos on the shoulder, I remember in Dayton or Cleveland as a kid in the 1970s, watching the big guys flying the D Speeds. Back then they were allowed a pipe and a .65. The one guy, maybe Frank Garzon or Nick Arpino IIRC blew a hole in the top of a piston. We thought that was a lot of power to do that. Frank noted that maybe they took off too much of the top/inside of the piston and it popped through. They were doing about 200 MPH then. As soon as anyone would reach 200, the rules would change to slow them down. No pipes, less nitro, thicker lines etc. I like to have the option of a pipe, but the low nitro 10% is a nice rule. Makes the motors last. Of course I don't run mine any more, so they could last forever.

Pond Skipper

Hi Alan good to hear from you,

I have that particular cylinder type it is a thick walled version. Concrete hit?
The thin walled ones could fail at the exhaust port in the corner they would
crack but not split in half. Are those alignment dimples put on the belly plate?
Looks like a speed pan engine. The mounting lugs where tapered in on
both sides.

Looks like the prop thrust plate was modified. I hope that weight and
drag in conjunction with a small prop will keep things together. So far
I have taken a TD to 24k ish with the 5ch Skorch to issues the plane is
twice the weight and good size of what I will be trying to do in the 30k + range.
1/2A Skorch is 11.82 oz less fuel with a TD on board.

Just have to try and see how things pan out.

aspeed

I got the cylinder in a box of other stuff. Might have been too much torque on the cyl. wrench. I made the drive washer just to have a spare case that is usable. The case was a gift from a flying buddy that broke a rod or crank. It was a test to see if he could solder aluminum. It works,, but our field needs a muffler and a method to shut off. I rarely get to use the old Cox stuff, so I pretty much have converted to Norvels now. Maybe I could use the old cylinder for a fixture to machine ports in the single port cylinders. Maybe not. I think I sold most of the Baby Bee cylinders and motors for $5 at a swap meet. Still keep the TDs and Black Widows though just in case. It was on a speed pan. We sometimes turned the fins off to get a cowl over too. The head carries away most of the heat, and they don't run long in the speed models.

Pond Skipper

I only have a 10cc tank in the Lil Speedy the 8cc engine will be limited to about 3.5mins of
blazing goo. TD .049s go sub 50 bucks on ebay all the time, least for the used ones with
a few scars. Parts are plenty thanks to interest in them still bits here there and on the
Bernie's site and Marks.

aspeed

Marks? Seen a review of the TD http://sceptreflight.net/Model%20Eng...20%282%29.html 22,000 for peak hp. Maybe a bit more with a lighter piston?

Pond Skipper

Here is Marks USA site:
http://www.exmodelengines.com/



I need rpm as pitch options are limited without going way over squared.
Based on plane weight a minimum of a 3.5in dia prop will be needed.
The carbon 4.75 x 4.75 to 3.5 x 4.75 would be screaming great for speed.

I could try the 4.1x4.1E in stock form first for a base line reading.
Here it is with my new spinner I used my 5-40 tap on a TD .020 spinner
then ground down the head of the bolt to be fluid with the spinner.
Makes for a great low mass weight up front to reduce vibration
and still allowing me to use a elect. starter on the engine. The
aluminum carb body will help keep the crank cooler big plus
for the air / fuel and oil.

aspeed

The 4.1 - 4.1 E prop looks interesting. I used the 4.2 -4 for all my baseline readings with all my .049s, probably eight different brands. (lots of cold windy days here) I think the Marks guy just gets his stuff from Bernie. The aluminum carb body will likely hold the heat, rather than cool it IMHO. I think the results would be unmeasurable. I sometimes make a nylon venturi on motors to keep the fuel cooler. At least that is what is in my head when I do it. The Edelbrock manifolds are made for prototypes with fiberglass and whatever is needed, then tested before committing to aluminum castings. When made from aluminum, they are always slower. I however would still prefer the aluminum Cox piece for longevity. Maybe with fins for cooling? Just thinking out loud. The spinner has a metal washer that could be tossed if you want to get rid of weight.

Pond Skipper

Yea the aluminum bit inside the hub recess is helping on spacing till I cut down a few of the threads.
I figure the heat will wick away from the source the exposed aluminum at 100+ mph will help. Otherwise
a plastic carb body is isolating the air from cooling the crank in that area with associated repercussions.

I would like a ceramic venturi would be cool in all regards.

I have yet to try the 4.1x4.1 on a TD the thinner blade should give me as much as a 1.2k static boost
I would prefer a less aggressive pitch at the hub all the same looks promising. I should bench
test this engine and give it a good break in prior to use at high rpms.

aspeed

I think if you check with a pitch guage, you will find the inside cuff will be good. Most of the thrust comes from the tips anyway IMHO.

Pond Skipper

Yes very true Alan, is why I have been cutting narrow props trying to keep thrust up at the top end.

I need about 26k static to be a contender unloading 8k more to 34k would be a start and get
around 135 mph. For a cheap TD would be notable 3ch plane if able to maintain continuous
duty. I want to mimic the TD .020 its done 37k + no problem. In the end the Lil Speedy is the
wrong design the TD .049 needs its own special platform to succeed.


Here is a modified APC 4.2x4 now a N
54g as shown will go with throttle and bench
test for a static goal of 24k with 35% nitro.
Stock 4.2 x 4 IC the mod N in the middle and a 4.1x4.1E
Giving up some grip for rpm.

Pond Skipper

The CG is 1/4in off the leading edge so the wing will have to be moved.
The aluminum vent line and fuel line ports off the firewall may be able
to work around would have to hack up the back plate to make this work.

It does seem to look ok on the nose of the Lil Speedy

MJD

My Feedback: (1)

Finally the engine looks big enough for the airframe!

Pond Skipper

Lol Mike! The dia. of the glow plug looks big considering the TD .02 has hit 106 mph on Doppler.
Might have to rename it to "Lil Freight Train" it will be very constant at full throttle any direction.

Today in the mail I received the perfect prop for the TD .010 The speed record
will be shattered due to its perfect proportions. 2.4 x 4 will hit 35.5k / 135 mph.
No wasted power at the hub max thrust for min. dia. Narrow blade has a proportioned
airfoil. The bore hole is smaller than the bolt I was able to tap a 2-56th thread for
vibration free mounting. The lip on the spinner needs to be ground down to improve
flow to the prop. The dia. is spot on without the useless lip. The airfoil is thicker
at the hub providing plenty strength for the life span of the prop.

HP-PRT Propeller - Micro Tigermoth (4x4)
3.99 ea.



5v regulators came in 5.2g combined with RX not bad.