Ply Rolled Fuselage Part Deux - 1/2A " Mini Skorch "
#1751
It seems to have been windy all summer here. Whenever I went out, the wind comes up, or something breaks. Got a few flights in, and went to a control line meet, been busy with huge honey do lists on another house, selling another one..... I am afraid to run my little Picco, I heard the cranks are brittle, but yours was singing pretty high notes. I have an old hydro that is begging me to finish up. I think it is an old OPS .45. I have Lake Erie right behind my house, but even a calm day has waves that are too big for the .05 Picco. This is most of my boat stuff. Oddly enough none have been on the water yet. Got a few larger boat hulls and some weedwacker motors with some ideas, but they sit around.
Last edited by aspeed; 10-10-2016 at 07:33 AM.
#1752
Thread Starter
One trick I use is fine the shore line where the wind is to my back the natural landscape will buffer the wind
enough to have a zone of calm water, of course you are dealing with a massive size lake so wave like
action coming into the shore line could more more often. I use to run in a local pond small enough that
even a windy day would not have as much effect. I think with the Picco the trick is not to smack the
nose in on landings causing a fracture. I have had no issue's with current bought engine's, I now own
four ran two. Perhaps the early batch of engines had the problem years ago and Picco fixed the issue.
I have always dodged windy day by going out in the mornings or at the end of the day.
The engine has hit 47k ish yesterday. The piano drive line makes a singing sound. The prop I had on
it loaded down the engine, best pass was around 28k. I should have used one of my customized speed
props but wanted enough bite to insure it pushed up out of the water and to not let it rev too much while
running for all those laps to give the engine some more break .
Once your happy with the break in time you can remove the lower portion of the "ears or tongues" as they
are called from the prop blades providing there is enough power. These portions of the prop have all the bite
for good traction but are lower in pitch and drag down the top end using up the available torque. The other solution
if desired is just to prop down some. The Picco .05 needs to be unloading at around 38k to be on the sweet
end of the speed / power curve. Last few passes after trimming up the rudder had it clicking along.
I anticipate about 50mph in the end, its all in prop type, depth in water, rigger sponsons, turn fin, prop depth adjusted
to run straight and true without any induced rudder trim / drag for lazy correction.
I like the Rigger it looks like a Mongoose from the 1980's a friend of mine owned one I ended up making a 25 size
version. What size engine is in there a 45?
enough to have a zone of calm water, of course you are dealing with a massive size lake so wave like
action coming into the shore line could more more often. I use to run in a local pond small enough that
even a windy day would not have as much effect. I think with the Picco the trick is not to smack the
nose in on landings causing a fracture. I have had no issue's with current bought engine's, I now own
four ran two. Perhaps the early batch of engines had the problem years ago and Picco fixed the issue.
I have always dodged windy day by going out in the mornings or at the end of the day.
The engine has hit 47k ish yesterday. The piano drive line makes a singing sound. The prop I had on
it loaded down the engine, best pass was around 28k. I should have used one of my customized speed
props but wanted enough bite to insure it pushed up out of the water and to not let it rev too much while
running for all those laps to give the engine some more break .
Once your happy with the break in time you can remove the lower portion of the "ears or tongues" as they
are called from the prop blades providing there is enough power. These portions of the prop have all the bite
for good traction but are lower in pitch and drag down the top end using up the available torque. The other solution
if desired is just to prop down some. The Picco .05 needs to be unloading at around 38k to be on the sweet
end of the speed / power curve. Last few passes after trimming up the rudder had it clicking along.
I anticipate about 50mph in the end, its all in prop type, depth in water, rigger sponsons, turn fin, prop depth adjusted
to run straight and true without any induced rudder trim / drag for lazy correction.
I like the Rigger it looks like a Mongoose from the 1980's a friend of mine owned one I ended up making a 25 size
version. What size engine is in there a 45?
#1753
That is the OPS .45. The Swamp Buggy is an old style K&B .40, I like plain bearing engines in water planes and boats, but this motor is expendable. I ran it up in the winter a few years ago, and the throttle was not reliable enough to go in the yard, so I aborted it. I have fixed it, I think, but have not taken it out. The red thing is the K&B .21. I have a couple of those, but only ran a different one a couple of times in the 1990's.
#1754
Thread Starter
Dumas Swamp Buggy was the big brother of the Lil Swamp Buggy 1/2A which I ran back in the late 70's
in a local pond good boat a bit big for 1/2A if speed is in mind. With the engine set just right on
a calm day you could get it clicking along at a good pace. Wet grass and your all set in a pinch for
a run or snow / ice.
in a local pond good boat a bit big for 1/2A if speed is in mind. With the engine set just right on
a calm day you could get it clicking along at a good pace. Wet grass and your all set in a pinch for
a run or snow / ice.
#1755
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For years our Canadian Tire chain sold expanded foam flutter boards in two sizes, the smaller being perfect for rudder/throttle swamp buggies. I ran them "FF" with reedies, RC with an FP .15 and a Fox .15 ($%@# POS engine..lol). Great on water, snow, wet grass, whatever. Lately they are all kneeboard style with wrist loops and fabric covering.
#1756
Thread Starter
Norvel .074 static stats:
APC 6x4 - Heli Muffler
19,147 rpm / 196w / .262hp / 22oz / 73 mph /
APC 6x4 - 17,603 rpm / 30% Nitro 20% Castor
Static: 19oz thrust / .203hp / 151.4w / 67 mph
HQprop 5x4.5 Carbon 20,126rpm / 86mph
APC 5x3 / 23.5k
APC 4.75x4 / static 22,852 / 129w / .173hp - using the APC power chart
86 mph / 12 oz thrust
Data from others:
MAS 5.5X4.5 / 20,700
APC 5X5 / 21,100
APC 4.7x4 / 22000
GRAUPNER 5.2X5.2 /19,000
APC 6X2 / 25,300
COX 5X3 / 24,600
8x3 /13,000
APC 7x3 19,300 / tuned pipe
Cox 7x3.5 19.1k / tuned pipe
Last edited by Pond Skipper; 10-21-2016 at 08:00 PM.
#1758
Thread Starter
World Models Midget Mustang:
Plane came in, it is too lightly built for anything more than low weight sub .10 engine,
so light it can actually do just fine with a .061. With a smooth running electric it could
handle up to 260w. So light a TD .049 would fly it fine. Possible floater with a TD .020
and a 4x3 for calm weather flying. More power and weight will cause a short life span.
Less canopy and pilot: 178g / 6.28oz with no landing gear as it sits out of the box, primarily
all balsa less motor / wing mount. Many holes to reduce weight, open framed as possible it
was built for electrics from the ground up. Cowl is 23.7g nice finish but not sure if it is nitro proof.
Stickers are nice but then not sure if they will hold up to nitro over time. Workmanship is good.
The stock pilot might work for some but I just can't let that happen. Can use the canopy or go open
cockpit. I do have some Fourmost Products cockpit coaming to finish it out a bit further. The surfaces
are large and should acro well as a low weight stuntah and a 6.5 x 4 prop.
........
Plane came in, it is too lightly built for anything more than low weight sub .10 engine,
so light it can actually do just fine with a .061. With a smooth running electric it could
handle up to 260w. So light a TD .049 would fly it fine. Possible floater with a TD .020
and a 4x3 for calm weather flying. More power and weight will cause a short life span.
Less canopy and pilot: 178g / 6.28oz with no landing gear as it sits out of the box, primarily
all balsa less motor / wing mount. Many holes to reduce weight, open framed as possible it
was built for electrics from the ground up. Cowl is 23.7g nice finish but not sure if it is nitro proof.
Stickers are nice but then not sure if they will hold up to nitro over time. Workmanship is good.
The stock pilot might work for some but I just can't let that happen. Can use the canopy or go open
cockpit. I do have some Fourmost Products cockpit coaming to finish it out a bit further. The surfaces
are large and should acro well as a low weight stuntah and a 6.5 x 4 prop.
........
Last edited by Pond Skipper; 10-25-2016 at 06:02 PM.
#1759
Thread Starter
The Norvel .074 will fit you have about 66.7mm or 2.65" from the existing firewall.
The thin balsa sides leading to the front of the firewall is not beefy enough to support
the engine over time you will get cracks along the grain. best to glass the inside or
use more balsa or thin ply. In other threads about the plane some folks have dumb
thumbed the balsa stringers and broke them while handling the craft. It would be
worth pulling off all the covering and sheeting the entire frame in balsa. Doing so
would allow easy handling during launch and landings and crash damage resistance.
Most of all vibrations from the engine wont shake the thing apart. The guy that glued
the thing together was not very generous with the glue. The plane is very light as I
stated could be a free flight model. No telling what they used in the wing I haven't
opened up the servo bay yet. If there are no spruce stringers nor sheer webbing
I may only use a Norvel .061 at the most. Could use some slow epoxy and brush
it on the inside up front to bind the grains and sparse glue joints. Just some thoughts
from my observations thus far. Cool plane though, it's matter of getting around the elect.
designed all balsa cheesed out framed fuselage and wing for IC use.
To go fast you have to close up most of the holes apply tape to the hinge lines to
avoid flutter with zero play in the servo links. The rudder needs to be fixed the elevators
need added support as the elevator without the horn lags behind. The CG is wrong in the
planes calls for 60mm off the leading edge of the wing others have fought a tail heavy flight
45mm is recommended. The throws in the plans are too much with a fast setup the plane
was originally design to fly around 65 mph.
Just found this review thread have not gone through it:
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show....php?t=1307695
The thin balsa sides leading to the front of the firewall is not beefy enough to support
the engine over time you will get cracks along the grain. best to glass the inside or
use more balsa or thin ply. In other threads about the plane some folks have dumb
thumbed the balsa stringers and broke them while handling the craft. It would be
worth pulling off all the covering and sheeting the entire frame in balsa. Doing so
would allow easy handling during launch and landings and crash damage resistance.
Most of all vibrations from the engine wont shake the thing apart. The guy that glued
the thing together was not very generous with the glue. The plane is very light as I
stated could be a free flight model. No telling what they used in the wing I haven't
opened up the servo bay yet. If there are no spruce stringers nor sheer webbing
I may only use a Norvel .061 at the most. Could use some slow epoxy and brush
it on the inside up front to bind the grains and sparse glue joints. Just some thoughts
from my observations thus far. Cool plane though, it's matter of getting around the elect.
designed all balsa cheesed out framed fuselage and wing for IC use.
To go fast you have to close up most of the holes apply tape to the hinge lines to
avoid flutter with zero play in the servo links. The rudder needs to be fixed the elevators
need added support as the elevator without the horn lags behind. The CG is wrong in the
planes calls for 60mm off the leading edge of the wing others have fought a tail heavy flight
45mm is recommended. The throws in the plans are too much with a fast setup the plane
was originally design to fly around 65 mph.
Just found this review thread have not gone through it:
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show....php?t=1307695
Last edited by Pond Skipper; 10-26-2016 at 07:03 AM.
#1760
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Hey Skipper - somewhere along the way on one of these threads the subject of an .010 delta came up. I kludged together a 1/4" FSWR (foam sheet wing racer.. I made that up) with a crudely cut out cardboard fuselage shell, lots of tape, and a piece of 1/4 x 3/4 TE stock, and a pair of elegant cardboard fins.. yech!
12" span, 2" tip chord, 8" root chord, 1" x 8" center section. I balanced it at 10% static and ballasted it right up to 50g, and it glides across the living room fine and plunks on the couch in what seems to be stable and not overly fast flight, with a touch of reflex in the elevons as expected at low speed.
(Before I continue shamelessly, there is hope - the Scat Cat is on the bench getting the canopy masked off for air brushing, and it is sooo close to done. So I haven't abandoned it in favor of this POS, no worries..)
I have it mostly drawn up in CAD, going to use depron like this but with a LE and tip cap. I think it is stiff enough to fly as you see it here. Prolly use Microlight covering. And
If it gets past this stage I'll start a thread.
Going to try not to be fanatical, and actually get it done and tested. Will go with a shallow box fuse for now (1-1/16" square to match the backplate OD). If the performance is worth repeating, the next step is to get as much of the radio gear inside the 1/4" wing as possible. The Tactic servos on their side, solder the leads into a pinless Rx, 1S Lipo and step up reg - it will all squeeze in. And go with the rear mount plate and balloon tank.
12" span, 2" tip chord, 8" root chord, 1" x 8" center section. I balanced it at 10% static and ballasted it right up to 50g, and it glides across the living room fine and plunks on the couch in what seems to be stable and not overly fast flight, with a touch of reflex in the elevons as expected at low speed.
(Before I continue shamelessly, there is hope - the Scat Cat is on the bench getting the canopy masked off for air brushing, and it is sooo close to done. So I haven't abandoned it in favor of this POS, no worries..)
I have it mostly drawn up in CAD, going to use depron like this but with a LE and tip cap. I think it is stiff enough to fly as you see it here. Prolly use Microlight covering. And
If it gets past this stage I'll start a thread.
Going to try not to be fanatical, and actually get it done and tested. Will go with a shallow box fuse for now (1-1/16" square to match the backplate OD). If the performance is worth repeating, the next step is to get as much of the radio gear inside the 1/4" wing as possible. The Tactic servos on their side, solder the leads into a pinless Rx, 1S Lipo and step up reg - it will all squeeze in. And go with the rear mount plate and balloon tank.
#1761
Thread Starter
Would be very curious to see how the TD .010 goes but your foil is too thick for
top end speed. Depends what your goal is here of course.
A guy converted this to reed power a TD would fair better of course.
http://www.topmodel.fr/product-detai...-laser?lang=fr
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDuu9FAC9Eg Too bad Charles is not around do to lack of a flying field hims loves the delta's.
top end speed. Depends what your goal is here of course.
A guy converted this to reed power a TD would fair better of course.
http://www.topmodel.fr/product-detai...-laser?lang=fr
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDuu9FAC9Eg Too bad Charles is not around do to lack of a flying field hims loves the delta's.
Last edited by Pond Skipper; 01-26-2017 at 06:45 PM.
#1762
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I know that, but this exercise is more about a quick build minimum fuss. It will tell a story about the possibilities of a delta this size I'm sure. If I like it, get fancy afterwards.
It may be 12.5% at the tip, but it's only 3.1% at the root.
It may be 12.5% at the tip, but it's only 3.1% at the root.
#1763
Thread Starter
The winter has us all hunkered in doing projects here is one for the spring well underway.
Using a AP .09 and Utckam 1.5cc pipe. Stocky rigger should hold up to the power.
Also Matt Ex Models is hooking me up with a die to thread the GMark .03 carb for the TD .020
Goal is a micro tuned pipe using carbon sock. Not going to use the stock muffler no
good for a pipe. Will be ok for bench testing the carb.
Using a AP .09 and Utckam 1.5cc pipe. Stocky rigger should hold up to the power.
Also Matt Ex Models is hooking me up with a die to thread the GMark .03 carb for the TD .020
Goal is a micro tuned pipe using carbon sock. Not going to use the stock muffler no
good for a pipe. Will be ok for bench testing the carb.
Last edited by Pond Skipper; 01-26-2017 at 07:16 PM.
#1765
Where did you scare up that motor? What size is it? The boat looks like a good plan. The little motor almost looks as though a traditional pinch bolt would work to hold the carb on, if there is enough meat on the aluminum body. It would mean drilling off the threads though :-( I kind of forgot about this plane. I did make up a few extra headers for a pipe, and even found a few more APs at swap meets . I think I have three .09s and 3 .15s now. I am just using the one .15 so far, but have plans. I was going to sink the servos and electronics into the wing of this 1/2" foamy, with no fuselage at all. I did put in a carbon wing stiffener and a foam sub fuselage to stiffen the front and give something to grab for a hand launch. Got too many projects in the brain, and no action I guess. This pic was about three years ago.
Last edited by aspeed; 01-27-2017 at 09:47 AM.
#1766
Looks like the Lite Machine helicopter version (V7) of the Norvel .074?
I have one too which I bought in order to have a spare liner, they where down to $19 each at the end I think (about 10 years ago now I guess). Never thought they would have changed the timing on those, but I haven't checked...
I have one too which I bought in order to have a spare liner, they where down to $19 each at the end I think (about 10 years ago now I guess). Never thought they would have changed the timing on those, but I haven't checked...
Last edited by Mr Cox; 01-27-2017 at 10:13 AM.
#1767
Thread Starter
The liner fins are a bit larger in diameter, I cut off most of the head fins.
Note they spent extra effort and put a thick bronze bushing in the case for the crank.
Shown next to a standard aero .74 this is a nice upgrade.
The manual has the typical inspection signature on the back dated 11/04/02
The venturi is held in by the NV could be replaced with a typical RC carb and
bolt with the half moon cut. No holes drilled for the muffler in lieu of the throttled
exhaust. Note in vid I modified one of those throttle exhausts and found the larger
volume muffler allows more top end rpm over the stock aero muffler.
------- --------
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJoGBccfJnQ Uploaded on Nov 3, 2016
Norvel .074 / Heli Muffler / APC 6x4
Static stats: 30% Nitro 20% Castor
19,147 rpm / 196w / .262hp / 22oz thrust / 73 mph
Lite Machines Heli with the original .8cc engine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgdW5vzf58E
Note they spent extra effort and put a thick bronze bushing in the case for the crank.
Shown next to a standard aero .74 this is a nice upgrade.
The manual has the typical inspection signature on the back dated 11/04/02
The venturi is held in by the NV could be replaced with a typical RC carb and
bolt with the half moon cut. No holes drilled for the muffler in lieu of the throttled
exhaust. Note in vid I modified one of those throttle exhausts and found the larger
volume muffler allows more top end rpm over the stock aero muffler.
------- --------
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJoGBccfJnQ Uploaded on Nov 3, 2016
Norvel .074 / Heli Muffler / APC 6x4
Static stats: 30% Nitro 20% Castor
19,147 rpm / 196w / .262hp / 22oz thrust / 73 mph
Lite Machines Heli with the original .8cc engine.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgdW5vzf58E
Last edited by Pond Skipper; 01-27-2017 at 08:39 PM.
#1769
Thread Starter
Yea wild gone are those days, the Vmax7 was the hot rod upgrade of it's day allowing
better bang on torque. With the front mounting tabs makes it great for big props. Most
excellent stability for flywheel control with boats and when pulling up with a starter belt.
If you want one to mess with I can send a link new unused old stock 40.95 free shipping
if in the lower 48.
better bang on torque. With the front mounting tabs makes it great for big props. Most
excellent stability for flywheel control with boats and when pulling up with a starter belt.
If you want one to mess with I can send a link new unused old stock 40.95 free shipping
if in the lower 48.
#1770
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Yea wild gone are those days, the Vmax7 was the hot rod upgrade of it's day allowing
better bang on torque. With the front mounting tabs makes it great for big props. Most
excellent stability for flywheel control with boats and when pulling up with a starter belt.
If you want one to mess with I can send a link new unused old stock 40.95 free shipping
if in the lower 48.
better bang on torque. With the front mounting tabs makes it great for big props. Most
excellent stability for flywheel control with boats and when pulling up with a starter belt.
If you want one to mess with I can send a link new unused old stock 40.95 free shipping
if in the lower 48.
All things willing I'm going to shoot Klasskote primer and color on the Buggered Birdie ( still looking for a name) tomorrow. I used shrunk spun polyester and nitrate on the wing for the base, fine sanded and it's like a baby's bum (I mean smooth, not in the middle). The fuselage is similarly done but with an odd combination of materials in my perpetual quest for easy fast and light shortcuts. It's actually done with pretty light self-adhesive spun cellulose mat and thin CA.. apart from the fumes nearly blowing my eyes off en route to the fan, it's light, smooth, and tough. And really fast! After patiently waiting a few seconds for cure, fine sandpaper soon has a nice finish to the surface.
#1771
Thread Starter
Well Mike I do hope we see more vids from you this year I have been waiting with
baited breath on some of those most worthy projects you have started.
The original 1994 LMH-100 had a Cox TD .051H (with slide-valve exhaust throttle)
They recommended 50% castor per the artical and used a Glowbee plug.
The engine had a bronze bushing!
The LMH-110 with a Norvel VMax6 was introduced for more power as shown in the
pic it has 5 bypass ports with a bronze bushing for the crank.
Finaly in 2001 the LMH-117 with the VMax7 was introduced as the shizniz being less
noisy and jump in performance with the front mounting tabs supporting the clutch, gear
and starter cone. Within a few years a electric version was provided ending the era of
the honored IC offerings. This cut out Norvel a company the surely felt the financial pinch
on the efforts made towards the specialized heli engine and slowly seeing a reduction in
over all product sales in general as more folks transitioned to E power in all regards.
baited breath on some of those most worthy projects you have started.
The original 1994 LMH-100 had a Cox TD .051H (with slide-valve exhaust throttle)
They recommended 50% castor per the artical and used a Glowbee plug.
The engine had a bronze bushing!
The LMH-110 with a Norvel VMax6 was introduced for more power as shown in the
pic it has 5 bypass ports with a bronze bushing for the crank.
Finaly in 2001 the LMH-117 with the VMax7 was introduced as the shizniz being less
noisy and jump in performance with the front mounting tabs supporting the clutch, gear
and starter cone. Within a few years a electric version was provided ending the era of
the honored IC offerings. This cut out Norvel a company the surely felt the financial pinch
on the efforts made towards the specialized heli engine and slowly seeing a reduction in
over all product sales in general as more folks transitioned to E power in all regards.
Last edited by Pond Skipper; 01-28-2017 at 07:36 AM.
#1772
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As a buddy of mine said when I described my usual hobby lifestyle of moving several balls ahead a tiny bit at a time each: "no project is too big to start".
I'm actually getting tired of that pattern, and trying to spread my attention less thinly and drive a few projects to the finish line.
Dunno how this works for you, but often I;ll be happy with everything all through the design and build and then at some I goof something due to rushing or a moment of stupidity so I stop having fun for the time being, So things tend to halt there until I figure out the easiest and most practical way to backtrack and get it right.
In the case of the little Cat, my covering job on the wing pissed me off. I could likely peel it off in.. hmm, 5 minutes? But I kept vacillating "hmm, I bet I could touch thin up.. nah! But.. maybe.."
Whereas I could likely redo it in what, a leisuely 1-1/2 hours? Doh!
Might redo it in tissue, nitrate, and KlassKote. The weight build is minimal with care paid to surface prep and a light touch on the gun. And the surface is so-o-o-o impervious to hot fuels and other messes.
#1773
Thread Starter
I tend to stop and think too, not much for cutting important corners. Covering is a no brainer for me
though I just use plastic shrink film covering, easy peasy quick clean up and repair.
Put a CS RC carb on the engine seems to work ok after a impatient break in moment I gave it
a rev up to see where I was at.
Norvel LMH VMax7 - .074 static stats:
MA 5.5x4.5 - Modified Heli Muffler / CS .061 carb.
19,176 rpm / 153w / .205hp / 15.7oz / 82 mph
-------
though I just use plastic shrink film covering, easy peasy quick clean up and repair.
Put a CS RC carb on the engine seems to work ok after a impatient break in moment I gave it
a rev up to see where I was at.
Norvel LMH VMax7 - .074 static stats:
MA 5.5x4.5 - Modified Heli Muffler / CS .061 carb.
19,176 rpm / 153w / .205hp / 15.7oz / 82 mph
-------
#1774
Thread Starter
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEuHZCqFlUA
Published on Jan 29, 2017
Litemachines final upgraded engine for their Heli.
New old stock inspected and signed, dated 11/04/02
MA 5.5x4.5 prop / 20,510 best peak / 17.8oz thrust /.255hp / 190.23w / 87.3 mph
25% nitro / 20% oil / Standard plug and head 5 ports Revlite with bronze bushing.
Approximately 4.5oz of fuel ran through thus far. NV was set but not peaked no pressure tap.
Should hit 21k with ease with shorter fuel line and a pressure tap.
Long neck venturi draws fuel very well / fuel line swung up at start venturi had no issues with it
Published on Jan 29, 2017
Litemachines final upgraded engine for their Heli.
New old stock inspected and signed, dated 11/04/02
MA 5.5x4.5 prop / 20,510 best peak / 17.8oz thrust /.255hp / 190.23w / 87.3 mph
25% nitro / 20% oil / Standard plug and head 5 ports Revlite with bronze bushing.
Approximately 4.5oz of fuel ran through thus far. NV was set but not peaked no pressure tap.
Should hit 21k with ease with shorter fuel line and a pressure tap.
Long neck venturi draws fuel very well / fuel line swung up at start venturi had no issues with it
Last edited by Pond Skipper; 01-29-2017 at 03:17 PM.