Mr Cox

Personally I would hate to see electric motors, they have nothing to do with real engines...

Pond Skipper

[h=2]"1/2 A" & "1/8 A" airplanes[/h](18 Viewing)
These are the small ones...more popular now than ever.

Bipe Flyer

I hear ya. In the past we've not allowed them and kept the engine size close to 1/2A by allowing up to .061. I don't hate anything... well, maybe ARFs. lol jk I don't have an issue with the use of electrics as long as it keeps in with the spirit of being small and being designed and built by the contestant. If the general consensus is no electrics, then I'm fine with that too. Is it about the power plant, or designing?

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

I don't care if electric power is entered, I just won't vote for them....LOL.

guille2006

Sorry, but; why to limit the contest to those engines? I've several own designs (and built) to show...
Besides; who flyies .049 or .15 today? everyone goes electrics!!!
I guess that the real challenge here is to find someone REALLY designing and building nowadays, besides of plane's power. Unfortunately, everyone buys and by just putting a battery on a plane they think they have the right to say "I built"!!!!

Just a thought, Kill me or love me... It's what I think.
Cheers

Bipe Flyer

One class for IC and one for electric, or is that getting too complicated?

Mr Cox

I believe the electric guys have a forum, or two, of their own, can't see why they would be on a forum for combustion engines...

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Trying to decide which format will generate the most participation is the task. Holding a contest for "1/2 A glow only" entries that produces only a few completed projects is a disappointment. If allowing small electric designers a place to show case their talents and creativity generates more build threads and message traffic here, then what is wrong with that..?
The threads that don't interest me, I don't have to click on any way.
How does SMALL limit their entries...?
Oh...welcome to the forum Guille2006....!

Bipe Flyer

IIRC SMALL is .26 and under or electric equivalent.

Pond Skipper

Perhaps this should not be posted as a design contest more so a build contest.

If a design contest then to qualify / voted on:
- own design
- built by designer
- must fly at least (ok) to be a viable proven design

Beyond that any votes received is purely a personal choice by the voter.

If you want electrics allowed then this forum should "Host" a design contest or rename to a build contest open to all small 1/2A size planes.
Up to 1cc or 160 watts of total cumulative power

Beside the fun of it all this will encourage small plane projects suitable for small IC or electrics for future builders to gain inspiration by or to recreate for themselves.
The folks that still choose to design their own can - this opens up building from plans or kits for the rest of the folks who prefer not to test their aerodynamic design skills.

Note times have not changed general rule of thumb
Micro IC .010 - .030
Mini IC .049 - .09
Small IC .10 to 25 (unless 4cyl up to .30)
Med IC 30 - 50
Large IC 60 - 90
Giant IC 100 - 200
Jumbo IC 200 +

Bipe Flyer

Why allow kits for electrics? The whole point has always been to encourage design and push ourselves. If you saw ajcoholics Piper Seneca with 2 home made .040 twin engines, you'd understand why there wasn't a limit on total displacement.

The fact that lots of people are responding with their own opinions shows that there's enough interest to for it to be worthwhile doing a contest.

We had similar conversations in the early years and settled on 1 CC glow as something we could all work with.

hllywdb

I Have to agree with Bipe Flyer for a few reasons:
1. A 1cc or smaller engine is something most everyone on this forum has a drawer full of, if not sure starts are cheap enough
2. A big factor in building planes from scratch for this size is how to FIT everything in there and still have a good flying/looking plane. This is something we have all had to contend with in scratch building for years.
3. The small radio gear already make it easy enough. Plus you have to design better/stronger when you have to use a small glow engine. It has to repeatedly go through the cycle of prime,flip,adjust the needle, flip some more,prime,flip,swear,flip,ouch,swear,flip some more,swear,throw plane,prime,flip.... you know the drill.
4. Can it realy be a 1/2a contest without the smell of castor and nitro? I think not. Plus you have to cover it with something that will stay on after being slimed and soaked. Foam doesn't count as building in the 1/2a world.

Just my 2 cents

BMatthews

I'm a bit late to the game here but it's heartening to see so much interest from the number of posts in this thread.

My own feeling is that to keep this in tune with the idea of small glow engines being the heart of this sub forum is that any electric models must be easily adaptable to glow power. Now that's not a huge deal but it does mean that the nose area where the electric motor is mounted has to be reasonably sturdy to accept the vibration and forces used for starting a glow engine. After all who here hasn't almost ripped their engine out of the nose of the model when the mixture pre-ignited well before TDC and the prop just about sheared off our fingers? Come on, I know I'm not the ONLY one! ! ! !

I've always felt that the upper limit of "small" was more like .10's to maybe .15's. But even ,15's seem like a bit of a stretch. But I'll go with the flow..... as long as a limit at .15 2C sets the stage for a higher 4c limit and I finally getting to use my OS .20FS that I've been hoarding all these years.

Now don't anyone have a heart attack or anything. But since I gave up motorcycle racing last year and now that my retirement dream workshop is all done I'm in the mood to build and fly again. Yeah, I know. It's all hot air until the balsa hits the sky. But I've got honorable intentions this time....

Bipe Flyer

OK, how about these for rules?

All entries must meet the following criteria:

• original design or scale model from own plans
• must be flown

3 Classes

1. 1/2A: any combination of 1cc or smaller internal combustion engines (I know 1/2A is .049, but there are a lot of guys with .061s.)
2. Electric: any combination of motors to a total of 200 watts
3. Small: Single internal combustion engine of up to .15 2-stroke or .26 4-stroke

The restrictions on the total electric power and the larger glow engines is to keep the designs in the spirit of small models.

1 winner for each class and 1 overall winner. The winners each get a new model of their own design. All other contestants get the same prize!

The most important rule - HAVE FUN!

I know the rules wont fit with everyone's idea of the perfect contest, but hopefully we can all compromise a little to get this thing going.

Pond Skipper

There is the OS .26 FS 4cyl more of them still around / same power as a modern .15

Bipe Flyer

Yeah, that's why SMALL allows up to a .26. We can do that.

BMatthews

I'll up the anty with a prize. All those that finish and fly their models by the contest deadline will be entered into a draw for one of my cherry wood razor planes. Picture below.

When unpacking and organizing a while back I ran across a few bodies and caps that need very little to finish them.

Pond Skipper

Nice bonus prize

Speaking of I see back in the day folks paid 10 bucks towards the prize could up it a bit more to commiserate 2015 ($15)

Bipe Flyer

Very nice Bruce! Kind of a door prize. Cool idea. I'll see if there's anything I can throw in. Maybe some prop shims for APC props on Norvels or an .020 electric starter.

Bipe Flyer

In one of the early years we each put in $10 for t-shirts and the guy who was to have them made disappeared with the money so I doubt anyone wants to go there again. In subsequent years we set up shirts on Cafepress and we just bought our own from there. http://www.cafepress.com/12a_challenge

guille2006

you have my vote!!!

Pond Skipper

I can donate a 1/2A engine = )

A. J. Clark

I like the rules and the 3 classes you have setup here.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Bipe Flyer...I like the 3 classes of model entry you proposed. Most of the "regulars" here who love .049 engines and scratch building aren't negatively affected and we might even see multiple class entries from the same modeler..?!?
Thanks again for being so generous with your time to host a website to help promote scratch building.

BMatthews

Yeah, let's avoid the whole sending in money for anything. If individuals want to offer participation/completion prizes to be drawn that's great. If something happens and they don't send it out then no one is out anything and we all still have new models to be proud of and fly.

Having said that it seems I've started something towards the idea of spreading the wealth out....