Stickslammer

Hello Everyone,
Back in `91 or `92 my first r/c airplane was a Cox 2 channel and it was a Piper Tomahawk or it went by a different name based on that design. My then fiancé gave it to me for Christmas knowing it was something I always wanted to get into.
The only thing I have left of it is the engine. It was so long ago I can`t remember what it was called. I seem to remember it went by a different name, that it was really meant as a motorized glider. I know it definitely looked like a Tomahawk, with the low wing and T tail.
Before I flew it, I joined the local club and at the first meeting, after hearing all the talk about and seeing some of the more serious hardware, I realized that what I had was not much more than a toy-grade product. I felt embarrassed when it was my turn to stand up and introduce myself and my plane as a new member. I remember some of the blank stares as others looked on.
So I was standing there feeling kind of dumb during the mingle part when one of the members who probably took pity on me struck up a conversation. I remember discussing my aircraft, and he said that he had never heard of or seen a 2 channel model such as this and wouldn't even know how to fly it. I thought that a little peculiar since he seemed like one of the veteran r/c pilots. He said I was better off finding some place to fly it and just go for it. This really threw me, since I thought what I was going to hear from someone was "Hey, cool, so just show up at the field on Saturday and well get that baby in the air and have you flying in no time!"
So taking his advice, I found some wide open out of the way space one sunny day and promptly drilled my new airplane into the ground after the first take off. This is partly where my screen name comes from. I remember porpoising it more and more as I slammed the elevator stick up and down, as all of you know is one of the first newbie mistakes. My flying has much improved over the years, but one of the members of my current club started calling me "Stickslammer", after a helping me scrape the rust off after a long absence from flying.
So anyway, does anyone have this plane, or had one and maybe have a picture of it? I have had no luck searching on line.
Sorry, I hadn`t intended for this to be a long read but hope it was somewhat entertaining to those who were getting into r/c back then.

mgnostic

I think Cox had a Fournier RF-4. It was a molded foam 2-channel airplane. It had the low wing but I don't recall it having a t-tail. The real Fournier was a motor glider.

Stickslammer

Funny, I typed in Fournier RF4 and got a picture of a build of one on RCGroups,com, which wasn`t it, but the posters avatar has a picture of what must be a Tomahawk. That must be what Cox called it. I`ll keep trying to find it. Closest thing so far is a Guillows kit for an .049, but I know mine was a Styrofoam ARF kit.

WINANS

There weren't many COX T-tail ARF's. One was the Typhoon, which you can see here -
There may have been another, but I can't bring it to mind at the moment.

Sounds like a pretty crummy club that you bumped into. That never was the sort of feel that we had.

Regards, Scott

Stickslammer

That`s it! I`m still not 100% sure about the name, but that was definitely the plane. Mine had a .049 "Ranger" engine with a little muffler band on it. Surprisingly quiet. After my first attempt at flying it, I was able to order another fuselage. The next time was an attempt to fly off the ice in January in front of a friends camp. Too close to the shore and a big pine tree. Crunch!! I remember throwing sticks at it to finally dislodge it about 40 ft. up. This time the wing took it hard. My friend got a real kick out that short lived flight. I gave up putting any more money into it. Years ago tried the radio and one of the channels went kaput. Oh well, glad I didn`t give up on R/C.
Thanks very much for the video.

Charlie

g-rock

My Feedback: (1)

Here is a 1/2A two channel Piper Tomahawk

https://outerzone.co.uk/plan_details.asp?ID=5453

Gene

Tony Pacini

This is the one that I remember:

Stickslammer

The more I think about it, Typhoon sounds right. Funny how you can remember some details and not others.

GallopingGhostler

There was a Cox Piper Tomahawk semi-scale ARF. I ordered one back in late winter of 1980 (Feb - Mar). It was short lived, I don't think it even lasted in the catalogs but a year. Came with the new RC Bee engine already mounted, just add radio. Came slightly damaged during shipping, a friend wanted it badly and paid me what I paid. I built a Top Flite Schoolmaster all balsa, powered it with OS Max .10R/C. That was a blast to fly especially with the more powerful OS engine.

WINANS

Always one of my favorites - redsigned the Sportavia in ~2009 for Estes/Cox. We actually tooled it, but never produced it. Have a couple proto models of it. Made a number of improvements, and designed for a geared brushed version for low cost, and an easy brushless mount for a higher performance version. Both flew great. Would have loved to get it to market, but we never did.

LDGILLS

Winans, ive been reading some old threads around the net from you and the sportavia. What happened so many years ago that it never made it to market? Any idea where the molds ended up?

WINANS

It was a challenge at Estes to get the more hobby oriented products to market. Ultimately it succumbed to the simple drag of the process. We had several fun projects that didn't see the light of day. It's a tough business in the end.

Yes, I know exactly where the molds are, and just yesterday I was daydreaming about trying to bring in 50 sets of parts or so, just to get a few out there. I might touch base with the factory and see if they'd even entertain such a discussion.

Scott

LDGILLS

wow.....if you could get your hands on the molds. I often wondered if one could bring plastic 1/2a c/l back to market successfully. I really believe they would sell like hot cakes thru walmart and big box stores. Not sure about everyone trying to sue over little johnys cut finger though....

WINANS

I enjoy your enthusiastic perspective, but to this, from my experience I would have to say - not a chance in hell.

LDGILLS

Scott, if you can get your hands on the molds....im a extrusion fix it guy who may be able to get a couple extruders.....

LDGILLS

haha....true story right there! You get the molds, ill set up a couple milacrons in my garage and do a limited run....lolol now thats dreaming (-;

GallopingGhostler

Actually, seeing how that at least in my observations balsa flew better than the plastic RTF's, I think one would be further ahead building with balsa instead. About 8 years ago I acquired two Estes Star Wars kits, the X Wing and the Y Wing. Although these would be difficult to duplicate except in private due to copyright concerns, one could certainly come up with something similar and avoid all that.

I think that a balsa Back Draft canard similar to the one Estes sold would be the ticket, also. It of course would not be the real thing, but would give a sense of reminiscence, IMO. Just a few thoughts.

In reality, if the CL planes back then were popular, heightened sales would have continued. Changes occurred in society regard noise. In the 1940's - 1960's, unmuffled model engine noise was considered healthy noise, keeping young boys out of trouble. Nowadays, it is mostly frowned upon. Not many kids are interested in flying toys, mostly into video games, but that is another topic of itself.

H5606

This thread keeps drawing my attention - seem to remember something besides the "T-tailed" Typhoon mentioned earlier in model magazine ads as GallopingGhostler mentioned a short-lived, Cox Piper Tomahawk.

A little research on-line yielded that Cox offered a scale-like, Piper Archer (conventional tail) and Turbo Arrow ii and - possibly - iii and perhaps even variations thereof (Tomahawk?) - I suspect airframes were made by Kyosho in molded foam like the more common, Centurion and Sportavia - could this be what the OP was referring to?

Couldn't help but get enthused about any prospect to bring back plastic control-line airplanes - am impressed in what's being done with 3-D printing of small parts - could 3-D copying be far behind? Thinking this kind of technology could be beneficial to recover or reproduce certain missing parts for existing stock. I'd have no trouble going grocery shopping at Walmart or Target with the wife if I knew there was an entire isle devoted to environmentally challenging "Gas Planes" displaying subjects in cardboard boxes with clear plastic windows like I remember even if they included current generation CYA, cut finger disclaimers.

I realize I'm in a minority that thrives on nostalgia rather than practicality and reality; this idea is a pipedream and would never come to be...

GallopingGhostler

Nothing prevents one from living out there nostalgia. If interested, join https://www.coxengineforum.com/ . There's a small community of enthusiasts who collect Cox engines and gas powered vehicles and planes as well as other makes and models, too. There, they discuss how they refurbish a less than whole plastic plane to airworthiness or to appearance for static display. They use different materials to do the patching, replacing missing / damaged pieces, etc. How to clean up finishes, restore original colors, etc. Also, they point out where to get parts, or may have spares with them to sell / barter / etc.

Stickslammer

Hi H5606,
I, the OP, was referring to the T tail Typhoon that you mentioned and that WINANS provided a video of. Because it seems to be a rarity, that had to have been the name of the model I once owned. I guess it was considered a RTF, although I don`t remember if it came with a starting kit,(fuel, battery, etc.in a box) or not. You mentioned Kyosho, and that seemed to be the name on the 2 channel transmitter that came with it. Like so many of us do, I wish I had hung on to what was left of all those really cool gifts we received as kids and young adults. Like the guy on the Hot Wheels forum who still has every single car and piece of track given to him since 1968 including the original 16 cars all in nearly mint condition.
Oh, to still have that Pinto Funny Car or that PT19 Trainer that I got in Christmases past. They can still be had on Ebay if one is willing to shell out some serious dough. Funny that I never flew that PT19 or ran that Funny Car. I guess both got sold in yard sales or ended up in the trash during one of our many moving adventures.
Many years ago when I was 30, a co-worker brought a box of assorted Cox vehicle parts that he was planning to throw away but knew I was fond of that kind of stuff.
There was almost an almost complete car in there, either a Vega or Pinto but the body was long gone. There was enough of the car left to piece together that would actually run.
I was living in an apartment on a side street where I could nail down a length of nylon string. I set it up, got the car running, and danged if it didn`t blast down that string into an old pillow that I`d found to stop it. I think there wasn`t enough smooth pavement on the street to get a full run. My girlfriend`s 5 year old son was pretty awe-struck. We ran that car over and over until that little can of Glow Fuel was gone. I seem to remember a couple other kids on the street had gathered to watch. I was very impressed with that little car. Weird how after all those years, finally getting to run one as a full grown adult.
So yeah, Ghostler, It`s a cool thing to live out your nostalgia once in a while. I`ve even managed to claw some back by getting a couple of Cox CL planes on Ebay. Less collectible models that sold for considerably less than the PT19s or Mustangs.
If there were many millions of old guys like me who wouldn't hesitate to grab a few of the .049 powered vehicles of the shelves at a store, than maybe a few limited production forays might be doable, but like WINANS says, probably not a chance.
I did pick up a couple of the Sizzler sets that Mattel reissued a few years ago at Target, so maybe there`s a small glimmer of hope after all.

GallopingGhostler

Living out my nostalgia, a few months ago for my Christmas present I bought me a 46" wingspan Brodak Profile FW-190 Kit. I noticed it is still on sale. Inasmuch as a 23" Cox Spitfire of the mid 1960's would mimic my first RTF as an adolescent, I consider the FW-190 close enough. I've got a barely broke in Testors .40 Black Head venturi engine for it. It is die cut, but Brodak's die cutting is the cleanest I've seen with decent kit wood, too. If somebody wanted to, they could convert it to RC, too.

Stickslammer

AM transmitter


I should have heeded this with my first one.
A member here, who may choose to remain anonymous, contacted me after reading my post about the model I was looking for. He had the plane and transmitter new in box, and well, of course I just had to have it.

Jaime_Arenas

My Feedback: (4)

Awesome. I hope you fly it and enjoy it.


-J

Stickslammer

I did attempt to fly it several times. It didn`t have enough power to climb out. I ran 3 tanks of fuel through it to get it run in before launching it. No damage from the attempts. After cleaning it up I ran one more tank of fuel through it. It seemed to be "peaked" and ran steady till the tank ran dry. Wanting to know what the final setting was, I turned the needle in and it seated after 1 turn. Should I run more fuel through it? I have a laser type thermometer. What should the temp be at peak power? Thanks for any input.

GallopingGhostler

That's the Ranger engine in that RTF. Basically it is the non-throttle version of the Dragon Fly RC. What fuel are you using? Are you using 25% nitro content fuel with at least 20% oil, of which at least 50% is Castor oil? Castor doesn't vaporize upon ignition as much as synth does, has a higher flash point, needed for the piston ball and socket joint for the connecting rod and lubricating the crankcase bearing surfaces that the crankshaft rotates in. The case has no steel, brass or bronze bearing surfaces, only the crankcase aluminum.

I'd experiment with other props, try say a Masters or APC 6x3, which is well fitted to its power curve. The Ranger is basically a refinement of the 1967 Cox .049 Q-Z. (See Sceptreflight.com Model Engine Tests, Cox 049 QZ) Sub-port induction (SPI, breather space created when piston is at top dead center and piston leaves an air gap at the bottom of the cylinder exhaust port) was eliminated and cylinder porting revised) so a muffler could be fitted. Also, you might get more RPM using a higher compression Tee Dee glow head. There are also alternative higher compression glow heads with replaceable glow button.

15% nitro is the minimum practical, but I'd bump it up to 25% for more power. Also, the prop spring plastic rachet looses about 300 RPM on the top end. You could try it running without the plastic rachet starter ring.