Return to R/C
10-13-2003, 11:00 PM
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Return to R/C
Greetings fellow balsa bashers! I have been reading this forum for most of this year, but it has been months since I posted - been too busy getting back into the hobby after a 27-year lay-off. (That, and a massive computer failure: I ended up building an entire new computer from components in June.)
Thanks to all of you, but especially Dickeybird, my first project has been totally successful. I started back with what I knew best "way back when," small planes and Cox engines (no taking sides, here: I just flew my second plane this past Saturday with a new Norvel .15. More on that later.)
My first project is a "Miss Canada, Sr." oldtimer rubber free-flight kit by Easy Built. The kit was included with the engine I bought on an internet auction site. The first picture is of how the original kit would be built stock. I modified the structure significantly, adding a lot of "strength" to the basic framework. The second picture shows the framed-up model. I used a new-in-the-blister pack PeeWee .020 R/C engine with the tank drilled for an extension a la Andrew Donatelli. I made a 2/3 oz. "clunk" tank from an eye drops bottle. I used a Hitec Eclipse 6 rcvr., 3 HS-55 servos, and a Focus 4 tx.
The finished plane was covered with "Coverlite" bonded with Sig "Stixit."
The plane has a 30" span almost exactly 144 sq. in. area - this not counting the enormous lifting stab. I don't know the all-up weight, but I estimate something around 12 oz. Over two dozen flights to date.
Thanks to all of you, but especially Dickeybird, my first project has been totally successful. I started back with what I knew best "way back when," small planes and Cox engines (no taking sides, here: I just flew my second plane this past Saturday with a new Norvel .15. More on that later.)
My first project is a "Miss Canada, Sr." oldtimer rubber free-flight kit by Easy Built. The kit was included with the engine I bought on an internet auction site. The first picture is of how the original kit would be built stock. I modified the structure significantly, adding a lot of "strength" to the basic framework. The second picture shows the framed-up model. I used a new-in-the-blister pack PeeWee .020 R/C engine with the tank drilled for an extension a la Andrew Donatelli. I made a 2/3 oz. "clunk" tank from an eye drops bottle. I used a Hitec Eclipse 6 rcvr., 3 HS-55 servos, and a Focus 4 tx.
The finished plane was covered with "Coverlite" bonded with Sig "Stixit."
The plane has a 30" span almost exactly 144 sq. in. area - this not counting the enormous lifting stab. I don't know the all-up weight, but I estimate something around 12 oz. Over two dozen flights to date.
10-14-2003, 12:03 AM
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RE: Return to R/C
What an intriguing project. I never would have thought to convert a rubber model in this manner.
I like what I see though. The mods and sensible power to weight shows that you didn't loose the gift during the long layoff. Great work. I may just try something like this myself one day.
Could you elaborate on the flying charactaristics a little more? Docile? Aerobatics?
And just to put some clothes on that first naked frame shot......
I like what I see though. The mods and sensible power to weight shows that you didn't loose the gift during the long layoff. Great work. I may just try something like this myself one day.
Could you elaborate on the flying charactaristics a little more? Docile? Aerobatics?
And just to put some clothes on that first naked frame shot......
10-14-2003, 11:38 AM
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RE: Return to R/C
Man, she really looks great! I'm glad it came out so successful for you. We gotcha hooked fer sure now! Does the Pee Wee run and throttle OK for you?
Funny, my "think building" project de jour is an old timer look-alike with semi-elliptical surfaces powered by an OK Cub .049B. This new one replaces the first model engine I bought when I was 11 yrs. old....bought it at Sears & Roebuck no less! Ahh, nostagia....am I a masochist or what!
Funny, my "think building" project de jour is an old timer look-alike with semi-elliptical surfaces powered by an OK Cub .049B. This new one replaces the first model engine I bought when I was 11 yrs. old....bought it at Sears & Roebuck no less! Ahh, nostagia....am I a masochist or what!
10-14-2003, 12:58 PM
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RE: Return to R/C
Thanks for the kind words. The PeeWee runs great on the correct fuel: Cox fuel @ $8/pint!!! I have tried NFX 15%, 25% and 35%. The NFX 25% is the next best. The others hardly work at all. With the Cox fuel I get good top end and long slow idle with good response to throttle command. Boy did the head turns at my local club field the first time I taxied out onto the runway and then ROG'd.
Regarding flight characteristics: The Peewee is just above marginal unless I get the needle-valve setting "just right." Then climb-out is excellent and I can loop from level flight. Rolls are comical with the compound dihedral and undercambered airfoil. Surprisingly, the plane is hard to spin at low throttle. Unfortunately, the needle setting wanders (more so on the non-Cox fuels), and sometimes I am reminded of my old single-channel days when the small planes would hardly stay in the air. I have spent quite a bit of time "tinkering" on occasion. My guess is that one probably needs to filter the fuel to keep the reed valve super clean.
I probably added a bit too much "strength" in some areas, and so the plane is an ounce or two heavier than it needs to be. Trimming is interesting with the large lifting stab:The faster the plane goes, the more down you have to crank in. With the CG back a bit, it thermals! Flight characteristics are predictable: So far I have always landed on the runway, even with unexpected engine stoppages. (See next post to continue.)
Regarding flight characteristics: The Peewee is just above marginal unless I get the needle-valve setting "just right." Then climb-out is excellent and I can loop from level flight. Rolls are comical with the compound dihedral and undercambered airfoil. Surprisingly, the plane is hard to spin at low throttle. Unfortunately, the needle setting wanders (more so on the non-Cox fuels), and sometimes I am reminded of my old single-channel days when the small planes would hardly stay in the air. I have spent quite a bit of time "tinkering" on occasion. My guess is that one probably needs to filter the fuel to keep the reed valve super clean.
I probably added a bit too much "strength" in some areas, and so the plane is an ounce or two heavier than it needs to be. Trimming is interesting with the large lifting stab:The faster the plane goes, the more down you have to crank in. With the CG back a bit, it thermals! Flight characteristics are predictable: So far I have always landed on the runway, even with unexpected engine stoppages. (See next post to continue.)
10-14-2003, 01:19 PM
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RE: Return to R/C
Ben,
That is a swell looking ship!! -- I think that's what they would have said in the 30's. I, too, am interested in converting older rubber models to glow powered RC. (I'm working on a 48" Wakefield model right now.)
In your photos, it looks like you reduced the nose moment from the original model. I chose not to shorten the nose on my model to preserve the original look. Have you ever had problems with long nose moments? What were the effects on stability?
Thanks
That is a swell looking ship!! -- I think that's what they would have said in the 30's. I, too, am interested in converting older rubber models to glow powered RC. (I'm working on a 48" Wakefield model right now.)
In your photos, it looks like you reduced the nose moment from the original model. I chose not to shorten the nose on my model to preserve the original look. Have you ever had problems with long nose moments? What were the effects on stability?
Thanks
10-14-2003, 03:53 PM
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RE: Return to R/C
ORIGINAL: PsychTeacher
Thanks for the kind words. The PeeWee runs great on the correct fuel: Cox fuel @ $8/pint!!! I have tried NFX 15%, 25% and 35%. The NFX 25% is the next best. The others hardly work at all. With the Cox fuel I get good top end and long slow idle with good response to throttle command.
Hmmm, I may have to drag out my cigar box half full of Pee Wee stuff....I gave up on 'em and switched to Tee Dee .020's years ago. Maybe it was just the wrong fuel!
Boy did the head turns at my local club field the first time I taxied out onto the runway and then ROG'd.
Don't you just love it!
Trimming is interesting with the large lifting stab:The faster the plane goes, the more down you have to crank in. With the CG back a bit, it thermals!
Yup, big lifting stabs generally need the CG way back there! Take a look at the plan....should be about 50-60% of the wing chord on that plane.
Thanks for the kind words. The PeeWee runs great on the correct fuel: Cox fuel @ $8/pint!!! I have tried NFX 15%, 25% and 35%. The NFX 25% is the next best. The others hardly work at all. With the Cox fuel I get good top end and long slow idle with good response to throttle command.
Hmmm, I may have to drag out my cigar box half full of Pee Wee stuff....I gave up on 'em and switched to Tee Dee .020's years ago. Maybe it was just the wrong fuel!
Boy did the head turns at my local club field the first time I taxied out onto the runway and then ROG'd.
Don't you just love it!
Trimming is interesting with the large lifting stab:The faster the plane goes, the more down you have to crank in. With the CG back a bit, it thermals!
Yup, big lifting stabs generally need the CG way back there! Take a look at the plan....should be about 50-60% of the wing chord on that plane.
10-14-2003, 04:00 PM
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RE: Return to R/C
Engine upgrade:
Several weeks ago a fellow club member offered me an excellent TeeDee .020 he had in an old box of 1/2A stuff. (If I told you the price I paid I'd probably get hate mail for weeks.) It came with an excellent machined aluminum radial mount attached. I took it home, bolted it in and fired her up. Wow! Does this baby scream. Having never owned a TeeDee (I couldn't afford one when I was a kid), I always thought the advertising slogan "Will fly most 1/2A planes" was just hype. It isn't. Following Dickeybird's lead, I swapped the cylinder and piston with same from another new PeeWee R/C I had just broken in. With the new engine the Miss Canada takes off like a scalded cat. Top end isn't quite as good as with the unrestricted large stock exhaust ports but it is still substantially better than the PeeWee. With NFX 35% fuel I now have all the power I need and endless idle. I get about 8 minutes with the tank pictured. I can do continuous touch-and-goes with my .020-powered craft. That really gets a lot of crowd attention.
Unfortunately my flying skills haven't come back as quickly as my building skills: got my thumbs crossed up, zigged when I should have zagged and pranged the nose a bit. A little damage to the front former and a cracked firewall resulted - all easily reparable.
I'll describe the airframe mods in my next post.
Several weeks ago a fellow club member offered me an excellent TeeDee .020 he had in an old box of 1/2A stuff. (If I told you the price I paid I'd probably get hate mail for weeks.) It came with an excellent machined aluminum radial mount attached. I took it home, bolted it in and fired her up. Wow! Does this baby scream. Having never owned a TeeDee (I couldn't afford one when I was a kid), I always thought the advertising slogan "Will fly most 1/2A planes" was just hype. It isn't. Following Dickeybird's lead, I swapped the cylinder and piston with same from another new PeeWee R/C I had just broken in. With the new engine the Miss Canada takes off like a scalded cat. Top end isn't quite as good as with the unrestricted large stock exhaust ports but it is still substantially better than the PeeWee. With NFX 35% fuel I now have all the power I need and endless idle. I get about 8 minutes with the tank pictured. I can do continuous touch-and-goes with my .020-powered craft. That really gets a lot of crowd attention.
Unfortunately my flying skills haven't come back as quickly as my building skills: got my thumbs crossed up, zigged when I should have zagged and pranged the nose a bit. A little damage to the front former and a cracked firewall resulted - all easily reparable.
I'll describe the airframe mods in my next post.
10-14-2003, 04:20 PM
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RE: Return to R/C
Fuselage modifications:
First, let me say that the best thing about the kit was the plans. Perhaps as a superlight rubber free-flight the wood in the kit may have been adequate, but much of it was too soft/spongy for a powered ship. Many of the parts were cut out twice: once from the printed sheet and again from quality wood when I went to fit the parts into place. Every part is cut by hand, so lay in a goodly supply of new razor blades.
Fuselage: I shortened the nose so that it would "look right" to me. I took measurements from profile views of a Taylor cub, a Citabria, and a Piper Supercub, determining the ratio of two distances: prop hub to wing leading edge and wing leading edge to rudder post. I averaged the figures from the three prototypes and laid out a pencil sketch on the plans, put the PeeWee prop drive in front of the forward mark, superimposed on the rubber prop thrustline, took my pencil and free-handed a profile that looked like an airplane. As chance would have it, the plane balance perfectly with a 110 mah batt. I used 3/32" sheet doubled for nose area sides with a lap joint over the longerons for strength inasmuch as the original structure is a simple box of 3/32" sq. stringers. I added two 1/8" sq. longerons to each side of the fuse., which vastly increased torsional rigidity. The windows were modeled roughly after the T'craft, cut from the plastic "window" of a shoebox cover. Appropriate mods were made to allow a removable wing. See wing and tail mods, below.
First, let me say that the best thing about the kit was the plans. Perhaps as a superlight rubber free-flight the wood in the kit may have been adequate, but much of it was too soft/spongy for a powered ship. Many of the parts were cut out twice: once from the printed sheet and again from quality wood when I went to fit the parts into place. Every part is cut by hand, so lay in a goodly supply of new razor blades.
Fuselage: I shortened the nose so that it would "look right" to me. I took measurements from profile views of a Taylor cub, a Citabria, and a Piper Supercub, determining the ratio of two distances: prop hub to wing leading edge and wing leading edge to rudder post. I averaged the figures from the three prototypes and laid out a pencil sketch on the plans, put the PeeWee prop drive in front of the forward mark, superimposed on the rubber prop thrustline, took my pencil and free-handed a profile that looked like an airplane. As chance would have it, the plane balance perfectly with a 110 mah batt. I used 3/32" sheet doubled for nose area sides with a lap joint over the longerons for strength inasmuch as the original structure is a simple box of 3/32" sq. stringers. I added two 1/8" sq. longerons to each side of the fuse., which vastly increased torsional rigidity. The windows were modeled roughly after the T'craft, cut from the plastic "window" of a shoebox cover. Appropriate mods were made to allow a removable wing. See wing and tail mods, below.
10-14-2003, 04:43 PM
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RE: Return to R/C
Wing and tail mods:
Conventional construction was used throughout. To the wing I added a 1/16" x 3/8" deep main spar at the thickest point in the airfoil in addition to the multiple 3/32" spars. I reduced the dihedral angle of both the center and tip sections. I added 1/32" sheeting to the leading edge and center sections. I used 1/16" plywood dihedral braces in all three locations, and I also replaced the rectangular t.e. stock with tapered stock notched for the ribs - with the very thin undercambered rib section, I did not want to trust the resulting miniscule t.e. butt joints. I also added reinforcements to the wing tip bows.
I split the horizontal stab virtually in half lengthwise to produce movable elevators and framed the verticle fin and rudder with plywood for stiffnes. I only have a tailskid right now, but while I am doing the repairs mentioned above, I plan to add a steerable tailwheel.
Covering was a challenge. I grew up with silk and dope, but neither is easily available in my neighborhood (California paint laws - or is it Kalifornia?), nor affordable when they can be found. So, I researched this forum for ideas and settled on trying Coverlite. It took four tries to get the first piece on smooth and tight because it shrinks so little, but once I got the nack things went well. This stuff is much tougher than silkspan but looks about like a good doped silkspan job when finished. Minor dents and pokes just iron right out. My next projects include a Hobby-Lobby Supercub that I am converting to glow (Hey! The electric guys are converting glow-powered kits!) and Guillow's Spitfire full house for my TeeDee .020. I have a Norvel .074 waiting in the box and a H.O.B
Mustang kit to go with it. I just got a new Hitec Eclipse 7 QPCM Spectra system in order to keep track of all the planes. Dickeybird is right - the bug has really sunk its teeth in.
Thanks for all the encouraging feedback.
Conventional construction was used throughout. To the wing I added a 1/16" x 3/8" deep main spar at the thickest point in the airfoil in addition to the multiple 3/32" spars. I reduced the dihedral angle of both the center and tip sections. I added 1/32" sheeting to the leading edge and center sections. I used 1/16" plywood dihedral braces in all three locations, and I also replaced the rectangular t.e. stock with tapered stock notched for the ribs - with the very thin undercambered rib section, I did not want to trust the resulting miniscule t.e. butt joints. I also added reinforcements to the wing tip bows.
I split the horizontal stab virtually in half lengthwise to produce movable elevators and framed the verticle fin and rudder with plywood for stiffnes. I only have a tailskid right now, but while I am doing the repairs mentioned above, I plan to add a steerable tailwheel.
Covering was a challenge. I grew up with silk and dope, but neither is easily available in my neighborhood (California paint laws - or is it Kalifornia?), nor affordable when they can be found. So, I researched this forum for ideas and settled on trying Coverlite. It took four tries to get the first piece on smooth and tight because it shrinks so little, but once I got the nack things went well. This stuff is much tougher than silkspan but looks about like a good doped silkspan job when finished. Minor dents and pokes just iron right out. My next projects include a Hobby-Lobby Supercub that I am converting to glow (Hey! The electric guys are converting glow-powered kits!) and Guillow's Spitfire full house for my TeeDee .020. I have a Norvel .074 waiting in the box and a H.O.B
Mustang kit to go with it. I just got a new Hitec Eclipse 7 QPCM Spectra system in order to keep track of all the planes. Dickeybird is right - the bug has really sunk its teeth in.
Thanks for all the encouraging feedback.
10-14-2003, 05:07 PM
#11
RE: Return to R/C
The PeeWee runs great on the correct fuel: Cox fuel @ $8/pint!!! I have tried NFX 15%, 25% and 35%. The NFX 25% is the next best.
Boy did the head turns at my local club field the first time I taxied out onto the runway and then ROG'd.
The NORVEL fuel (NFX) is produced by Wildcat in Central KY. At $10/quart, the NFX 25% can get pretty pricey -- on the other hand, you can fly a LONG time on a quart. If your LHS carries the Wildcat brand, you might check their pricing on gallons -- there may be some $$$$ savings.
Regards,
Andrew
10-14-2003, 09:47 PM
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RE: Return to R/C
Dickeybird said-
Yup, big lifting stabs generally need the CG way back there! Take a look at the plan....should be about 50-60% of the wing chord on that plane.
Yup, big lifting stabs generally need the CG way back there! Take a look at the plan....should be about 50-60% of the wing chord on that plane.
I'd tell you where my FF'er balances but the clothes are off it just now for repairs and recovering so I don't really know where it should be. 50% sounds about right though.
10-15-2003, 08:42 AM
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RE: Return to R/C
To jboy381-rcu:
The internet (and this forum especially) have provided me an incredible wealth of information. I have been able to catch up with several decades of changes to the hobby from the convenience of my desk. I am still a full-time community college professor, so my schedule is packed, but I do a little web surfing during my lunch break most days. Doing so, I found this site that will give you all the details on the PeeWee tank conversion:
http://www.mfarchive.modelstuff.co.u...3/airspace.htm
Best Regards, Ben
The internet (and this forum especially) have provided me an incredible wealth of information. I have been able to catch up with several decades of changes to the hobby from the convenience of my desk. I am still a full-time community college professor, so my schedule is packed, but I do a little web surfing during my lunch break most days. Doing so, I found this site that will give you all the details on the PeeWee tank conversion:
http://www.mfarchive.modelstuff.co.u...3/airspace.htm
Best Regards, Ben
10-16-2003, 02:31 PM
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RE: Return to R/C
Didn't know that, but his other web site is crammed full: didn't have time tioexplore it all, yet, but I set it in my "favorites" list.
