Andrew

A bit too large for the group, but perhaps of interest to the NORVELites.

The AX 40 is now available: http://www.shopatron.com/product/pro...=NVLAX40/100.0

Andrew (the "other" Andrew)

tiggerinmk

Hmmm, not to be confused with the 'other' AX

Don't say much about it do they, some more specs would be nice.....

Bipe Flyer

Yay! I've been waiting for this one. Now when is that .02 coming out?

Andrew (Another one)

jboy381-RCU

.010 would be nice too!!!

john

John C

Just to be clear, this is a .25 cu.in. engine, NOT .40 . . The 40 in the name seems to come from 4 cc displacement.

I'm sure everybody understands this (this is the small section ).

Clarification just in case

I'd lile to see a real .40 (cu.in. that is) from Norvel

Bipe Flyer

John C

I think you are confused. It is indeed a .40ci engine.

Norvel Big Mig .25
Part number = NVLB25R
http://www.shopatron.com/product/pro...=NVLB25R/100.0

Norvel AME .25
Part number = NVLA25BBR
http://www.shopatron.com/product/pro...=NVLB25R/100.0

Norvel .40
Part Number = NVLAX40
http://www.shopatron.com/product/pro...=NVLAX40/100.0

Norvel also has a .60 (yes that's .60, not .06) in stock in Russia waiting for new packaging.

Andrew

The detailed specifications do indeed list the displacement as .25 CI, however, many web developers are a little lazy (myself included) and tend to boiler plate as much of their code as they can. The displacement listing is likely an oversite on the programmers part -- some webmasters create pages about material for which they have no knowledge and work from the clients notes alone.

The AME .25 lists a bore of .68", stroke of .66" and power rating of .91 hp. The AX-40 lists a bore of .82, stroke of .75 and power rating of 1.4 hp. A little quick and dirty calculation using the Bore/Stroke figures of the AX-40 yields a displacement of .396 CI.

Even as good as AJC is, I don't think he could squeeze 54% more HP out of the AME .25 and retain the same disp. I have dropped NORVEL an email regarding the displacement listing and would expect either a change or clarification to be forthcoming.

Regards,

Andrew

Bipe Flyer

It must be a typo. Thanks for clearing that up Andrew.
A bore of .82 and stroke of .75 is .396 Cu In.

I sent an email to Ed Stevens at Norvel to let him know.

Bipe Flyer

Ed just emailed me back and he has fixed the typo.

cali_dream

It's true, we must have missed the typo, but I fixed it now. NORVEL has just completed a major renovation of our production facility. We are very committed to the small engine market, it is part of the soul of our company. Thanks everyone for your support! Ed Stevens

jboy381-RCU

where is the .010???that's about as small as you can get...that would be a little hotrod...

john

buzzard bait

Looks very interesting, but the specifications table is titled "w/muffler" and then in the weight column it says "w/o muffler". So what is the weight with the muffler? The Irvine .39 is about 13 1/2 WITH the muffler, so is the Norvel really lighter or not? Can't tell. Have I missed or misread something?

Sorry to continue the non-1/2A subject, but wanted to follow up while I had the chance. Any info on the rumored .020 would be most welcome too! Jim

tiggerinmk

Nope, you've not missed anything......

If we take an 'average' 40 sized (BB) engine, eg the OS 40FX, the weight without muffler is 13.6oz and with muffler is 16.84oz. The Norvel claims to be 20% lighter than any other 40 sized engine which takes us to 10.88oz and 13.47oz respectively. The weight is advertised at 10.79oz, so they've hit the target. As Norvel are using an 'ultra-light' muffler, this should also help keep the overall weight down.

The Irvine is, as you say, 13.6oz with the muffler but is not actually a 40 sized engine. The Irvine 40 is 13.9oz and 18.1oz with the muffler. All symantics as they say..

The Norvel may work out to be slightly lighter with the muffler than the Irvine 39, but then the Irvine does have a large muffler and the Norvel probably isn't actually 40 sized either....

One other thing about the Norvel, if you look at the description "it saves loves of money" so maybe it's cheaper too!

2fast4u

My Feedback: (5)

Specifications for AX-40 w/Muffler
Spec Name Description
1 Displacement 0.40 cu.in. (6.5 cc)
2 Bore 0.82 in. (20.85 mm)
3 Stroke 0.75 in. (19 mm)
4 Compression 9.0 - 12.0
5 Power 1.4 HP at 16,000 RPM
6 Practical RPM 2,000 - 17,000 RPM
7 Fuel Consumption 30 oz./hour
8 Weight without muffler 10.79 oz. (306 g)

And only $109. Cool.

buzzard bait

At some point the .40 category almost disappeared as a practical matter because most manufacturers built them to be bored out to make a .46. Few people buy them as 40s anymore since you can get an identical engine for slightly less weight with a .46 displacement. Why get an OS .40FX when the .46 is actually lighter? It's a meaningless comparison because the .40s are needlessly heavy for their displacement. There are some plain bearing .40s that are light, but they are designed primarily for easy handling and cheap production, not high power. That leaves the Irvine .39 and the Fox .40, which are both very poweful and comparable in weight to the Norvel. Till recently you could get the Irvine from Gold Coast for $108 but I just checked and the price has gone way up.

Glad to see the Norvel fill the niche at a reasonable price. If it is user friendly it will be a very attractive buy and I won't care whether it is really "20 percent lighter". But I'd still like to know how much it weighs with the muffler. Jim

tiggerinmk

No need to get hot under the collar,just stating the facts...

The standard classes still exist, they've just got a bit blurred in some cases where a smaller bored out engine can out perform the larger standard engine. I don't believe that they make the standard engines larger just to bore them out, it's just that machining is a lot more accurate than it used to be allowing the standard cases to be bored out further and generate more power. This is how the current range of 52-53 sized engines came about, competition to get the most power out of a 40 sized case.

As for the Irvine, it's in a 30 sized case and is a bored out 36. I've got one of these and have compared it to my LA46 and FX46. As you would expect, the Irvine is more powerful than the LA but then it is heavier. It is not as powerful as the 46FX, and won't have the torque of the larger engine to turn bigger props.

You may find that the Norvel will be compararable to the Irvine in that it will be able to turn a 10" prop at high speed but it won't have the torque of a 'standard' 40-53 class engine to turn 11" props.

wild fred

My Feedback: (3)

It's about time, Ed! been wanting one of those since you first advertised it!

red_z06

My Feedback: (11)

FYI

Specifications for AX-40 w/Muffler
Spec Name Description
1 Displacement 0.40 cu.in. (6.5 cc)
2 Bore 0.82 in. (20.85 mm)
3 Stroke 0.75 in. (19 mm)
4 Compression 9.0 - 12.0
5 Power 1.4 HP at 16,000 RPM
6 Practical RPM 2,000 - 17,000 RPM
7 Fuel Consumption 30 oz./hour
8 Weight without muffler 10.79 oz. (306 g)
9 Weight with muffler 13.10 oz. (371 g)

cali_dream

The engine is significantly lighter than any other motor because we do not use a brass sleeve. Our 1/2A engines (to be relevant to this forum) have always been very light for their power, also because we don't use brass sleeves in them.

20% less weight and 20-25% fuel economy are really most exciting to experienced modelers who understand that 5% weight savings is absolutely huge in the way an airplane will fly.

A Sig Somethin' Extra weighs about 72 oz. full up. Saving 3.5 oz. on the motor and muffler is a little less than 5%.

For example, I went to Boeing's site and noted that the maximum takeoff weight of a 747-400 is 875,000 lbs. Consider that 400 people weighing 100 lbs average comes to 40,000 lbs. I am pretty sure the pilot will notice the 40,000 lbs., especially at takeoff and landing.

We believe that our lighter engines will ultimately win the hearts of many modelers. We hope you will try one and let us know if you agree.

wild fred

My Feedback: (3)

Ed; I need the mounting dimensions of the norvel 40, please post!

cali_dream

We used FX standards for ours, so mounting would be the same as 40FX. 1.4" width not including mounting ears. .69" width between mounting holes same side. 1.7" width between mounting holes different side. 3.2" high not including plug. 3.27" from back plate to front of prop washer.

wild fred

My Feedback: (3)

Yay! I can get back to work! thanks for coming through for me! no need to email me back, Ed. and once again, norvel customer support second to NONE!

Bipe Flyer

I've been hooked since I bought my first Norvel AME .061 in 1998. I now have 11 Norvels ranging from .049 to .15 and I think they're great. I'm going to clear out some of my .25 and .40 stuff to make room for the larger Norvels.