Bipe Flyer

I've been drawing a set of 1/2A Beercat plans for Wild Fred and it has been taking me ages. It seems that something keeps coming up and preventing me from getting it done. Well I've been working on it a bit lately and it's almost finished. I thought I'd show you what I've done so far.

matchlessaero

Andrew, that absolutely looks great.

What airfoil is that? Its very interesting looking....

DICKEYBIRD

Ooohh, that'sa NICE!!

Jeremy, the airfoil looks sorta NACA 63012 to 15'ish to me. Hal DeBolt was big on those sections back when he designed the Midwest Beercat. He was able to make them work by keeping the wingloading low and using a fully sheeted wing structure. I'm interested to see how it works in the 1/2A size with open structure. Not being critical Andrew, just curious 'cuz my one attempt with the 630xxx series/medium wing loading/open structure didn't do very well ie: snap city!

Bipe Flyer

DB, the airfoil is NACA 65012 and the tail is NACA 0010.

I wondered about the airfoil too. I wanted to use NACA 2415 on the wing, but Wild Fred asked that I use the same airfoil that Hal used because he likes the way the .40 flies. I will be sending foam cores to Wild Fred, so they will be fully sheeted. I drew the built up wings for the sake of completeness of the plan. If I build one for myself I will probably use NACA 2415 or NACA 0015.

DICKEYBIRD

Ahhh, foam wings....that'll help! The bipe I was referring to that was evil had some other ills on the maiden flight also, like aft CG and too much elevator. It was a friend's design that he had me draft the wing plan for and CNC cut the ribs. He chose the airfoil to hopefully reduce the drag of the 2 wings. After the crash, he rebuilt it with less elev. travel and moved the CG forward. It flew successfully but you ALWAYS had to respect that elevator....at any speed and any angle of attack! [X(]

I'm wid' you on the NACA24xx series but since it's a small bipe I'd lean towards a 2412 to reduce the drag somewhat. It's all a crapshoot, eh?

Bipe Flyer

Yes, it's a bit of a balancing act. Personally, I don't worry too much about drag when it relates to airfoils. I don't care about speed and draggy airfoils tend to be higher lift airfoils. My 1/2A Ultimate, Cloud Buster and 1/2A Bipe Stick are all 15% airfoils and fly fine for me. The Beercat is a racing biplane though, so the 65012 airfoil does make sense and the airfoiled stab should help.

combatpigg

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HI BIPE! Looks good, but how many gallons of MOLSON has it taken you to get this far on the BEERCAT? The only thing I question is the need for a symetrical airfoil on a racing plane or even a sport plane, a semi symfoil will get the job done better IMHO. After doing some pylon racing, I've been made a believer in looking for just the right amount of lift in the wing to keep the AOA closer to 0, and to make the plane feel more at home in all flying conditions. Most of my time spent inverted is at a speed that the semi symfoil handles OK, and the slight forward pressure on the stick acts as a reminder anyway. I have a fleet of 1/2A RC combat planes, some are symetric, some are semi , there are no other differences.The semi symetric ones really are better all around!

DICKEYBIRD

Well spoken there C-Pigg!

Bipe Flyer

I should clarify. It is a scale model of a reno racing biplane. I didn't design it for 1/2A racing. I designed it to fly like the 40 size Hal Debolt design, which I suspect was designed after the original since the original looks like it uses the same airfoil. (See the attached Picture.) I would have used a different airfoil to suit my style, but I was asked to use this aifoil because Wildfred prefers it for his flying style.

As for semi-symmetrical being better. I have never done any pylon racing so I can't comment on that. However, I can notice a definite difference between a semi and fully symmetrical airfoil in inverted flight. Semi may be better for pylon and combat, but when it comes to aerobatics fully symmetrical is the way to go.

combatpigg

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HI BIPE! It's an age old debate, semi VS full. In a perfect world where I could scale down gravity with the reduction in size of a wing, there would be no contest. The REYNOLDS numbers on a 40 size wing are respectable, but the numbers on typical 1/2A & under wings are disproportionately worse. The saving grace is the disproportionatly large decrease in wing loading that successful 1/2A designs have,[which is something that I'm rediscovering thanks to your recommendations about feather weight radio gear]. I don't doubt for a minute that you can pull it off, though! Especially since you've got a guy named WILD FRED! at the controls. I don't know him, and have never seen him fly, but anyone named WILD FRED ! has GOT to have THE RIGHT STUFF!![X(]!!

wild fred

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Hi! been offline a few days, glad to see the progress on the beercat! looks good! the airfoil debate is funny I don't usually use symmetrical airfoils on 1/2a, but laminar is something I've never tried in this size, worth a try.
As far as me flying, I do o.k.; got some video of me hovering my seniorita with an fp 40, that fancy enough? if it's calm I can back it down to about 2' off-hee hee!
the 40 size beercat is very light for size, not snappy at all; but 800 sq. in. at 4 lbs. does well. it will sink once it's slowed up a lot but no wing drop. LARGE stab. probably helps, as does attention to incidence and symm. tail. Looking forward to building it! Haven't got my 1/2a design going yet, been busy, started new job. will hammer out something by mar., if nothing else will do a ferroplane and show how to build one; best flying 1/2a around! -unbiased opinion, of course-

combatpigg

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HEY WILD FRED! CARL GOLDBERG would be doing torque rolls in his grave if he saw a SENIORITA hovering at 2 ft.! You got my curiosity about the FERROPLANE! I figure it's a play on words, but I can't figure it out[sm=confused.gif], I've built plenty of FEAR-O-PLANES though!

wild fred

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a freind named it, as my last name is ferrer. Thought about changing the name, but everyone is used to it by now! They don't hover, but do everything else. on an 074 they run about 70 mph, point roll, knife edge, flat spin, unlimited vertical, fly inverted and outside manouvers well, and are made out of 2 sheets 1/8x4 and 3 sheets 1/16x3, 1) 1/4" sq, 1) 1/4x1/2, 2) 3/4' t.e. stock. the firewall is 1/4" luan, I get a years worth out of 1) 4x8 sheet. been tinkering with the design since 1984, about got it right.

Bipe Flyer

I had the Beercat plans printed today. I have a meeting on Monday, but I'll try to get the cores cut this weekend and get things mailed out on Tuesday.

Wild Fred; send me your mailing address.

Andrew

Andrew --

Only a person of suspect character would show us a set of BEERCAT plans after shutting down BlackFlight. It's like showing a child an ice cream cone then eating it yourself

the "other" Andrew

combatpigg

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HI BIPE! After looking at those plans, one thought struck my head, don't you think we should have to use at least FIVE BUCKS WORTH OF WOOD for our entries?

Bipe Flyer

Welllll, I hope to restart things this year in a slightly different form. I don't have time to cut cores and vacuum form parts so it'll either be plans only or downloadable plans bundled with my tile printing program.

Anyways, I started drawing the plans for Wild Fred some time before shutting things down. I always keep a promise... eventually.[sm=tongue.gif]

Bipe Flyer

Less is more; especially when it comes to weight.

wild fred

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yep, less wood, less weight! no problem with cores and stuff, I have no problem building it all balsa, built 2 40 size, and am the balsa nut! I sent you email w/ my address, looking forward to the plans and building it! wonder if it will knife edge loop as good as the 40 size?

2fast4u

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OK WILD FRED.....

I guess you know that several of us will want a set of cores and plans!!!!

You will have to work out a deal with BIPE FLYER so that you can sell the cores and plans "for" him. Come on dude, hook us up.

wild fred

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I am kinda foam impaired. maybe this will give me an excuse to buy a foam cutter! will build and evaluate, and if all works well, including the laminar airfoil in this scale, we can do something. I am not profit oriented, so will make availiable at cost plus shipping if it works out (of course, I make a little on the ferroplanes; you NEED one o' them w/ an 074!!)

SST

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So here I am, several months hence, and STILL waiting for a plans update on this cute sucker. Are they available yet? Are wing cores available too?? I've been holding my breath, but have been unable to wait on several occasions!

Bipe Flyer

I've been too busy to sell much over the past few months, but if you send me a PM I'll set you up with plans and cores.

wild fred

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hi, guys, haven't started it yet, but SOON! got other projects clearing off the bench, and about caught up fixing everyone else'e stuff. I still gotta build the 40 size one I got, too; got a norvel 40 for it (of course!) been running them for a month now, they are working out well. a little more break in than 061-074, but after several tanks they RUN! anyway, look for it within the month.

Andrew

Hey Wild Fred --

I realize the NORVEL 40 is a little large for this forum, but could you give us a short description of your breakin procedure, fuel used, engine quality and perhaps some RPM measurements. After all, NORVEL got started with the small stuff.

Thanks,

the "other" Andrew