ajcoholic

My Feedback: (10)

I traded a few of my Cox engines for a Norvel 061, its a cl version, and I planned to convert to RC use with one of the AP 061 carbs that DB got for me.

The other day I was kinda' shocked to discover that the venturi is an integral part of the crankcase! If I want to do the mod, I will have to mill off the venturi. Before I start hacking up the engine I wanted to know what exactly I have.

I will go to my shop, atake a picture and post here later today....

I know a lot about the Cox engines, but these Norvels are a whole new ballgame....[X(]

AJC

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

HI AJC, If it's an early version, it might look like it's an integral part of the crankcase, but it's actually a very well pressed in fit. I think epoxy is involved to, so a little heat, and a little wiggling with the pliers and it should come out. If it is a REAL early version it is a STELS [before NORVEL]and they had phenolic inserts for tuning.

ajcoholic

My Feedback: (10)

I thought the same thing, but it is so close it looks part of the case to me - but the base looks like the elongated hole similar to the newer ones. The cylinder is aluminum, anodised a light brown/gold. I will heat it and try to pull it out before I do anything else...

Thanks CP!

AJC

Andrew

Hi Andrew (other, other)

There are several identifiers to look for. The earlier AAC models had a one piece crankcase, brass or steel needle valve without an extension and an aluminum cylinder notched for the cylinder mounting screws without black anodize. The later models have a removable venturi, steel needle valve extension, black anodized cylinder with holes to access the cylinder mounting screws. The earlier AAC used slotted cylinder mount screws -- the Revlites have gone to allen head bolts. The AME/Big Migs have the 3 port/5 port induction layout. See DickeyBirds explanation for the high end/low end performance. I've attached pics of the 1 piece AAC crankcase (early model), the AAC slotted cylinder, and the most recent Big Mig Revlite C/L. Norvel still sells the replacement crankcase as a 1-piece crankcase, probably due to a high parts inventory. They may have the newer cases with removable carbs/venturis but don't advertise them.

the "other" Andrew

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

HI ANDREW! The top picture shows the engine that I'm talking about, and with a little muscle the venturi WILL pull out. I'll throw in a picture here of an AME that I put a carb on, with the help of some JB WELD[:'(]![ugly, but it works]

Bipe Flyer

CP, is that a Stels on the right?

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

HI BIPE! Yes, I bought it off a C/L speed guy named Scott Newkirk and it worked nicely for C/L COMBAT. It is so light I had to make longer mounts for it.

ajcoholic

My Feedback: (10)

OK guys, thanks for the tips. Looks like I have myself an early version.

Combatpig, I heated up the case with a small flame and gave it a yank, it came out! And it was epoxied in for sure. Now I can try and fit the ap carb to it.

I also have a spare piston/cylinder set that I may try and do something with later on.

Thanks boys, here are some pics...

AJC

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

What a set up you gave me for a YANK pun,,hmm,,Bruce is gone,,hmmm,, should I?

ajcoholic

My Feedback: (10)

Please NO!

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

AJC, I was thinking that JB WELD would be the most trouble free way to attach the carb. Less invasive, OH, the reset tool for the .020 is here, thanks again!

Big Al-RCU

Hi Guys,
I keep seeing JB WELD mentioned. I have been using it for years, but have not had good luck around nitro. I patched up a carb on an OS46 and I thought it turned out beautiful but midways thru the first flight it went rough. Landed and found that the JB WELD had turned into a bright green gooey mess. Anyone else seen this? Maybe the stuff was old, I do tend to keep half used tubes forever, but it did set up OK. After that experience I assumed it wasn't fuel compatible and haven't used it since around engines. Sounds like others are using it with no problems?
Thanks,
al

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

HI BIG AL! If the JB WELD is fresh, and mixed 50/50 it should be a medium shade of gray, and semi runny viscosity. I don't know if it is totally impervious to fuel, but I have seen a combination of string and JB WELD hold the carb housing on a COX MEDALLION together for over 25 years! It's the UGLIEST engine you ever saw, but it works. LOCKTITE has a high temp epoxy out for the same purpose too, available at auto parts stores.

ajcoholic

My Feedback: (10)

I dont use JB weld myself - there are many other better products for use in engines IMO.

AJC

AndyW

My Feedback: (1)

Andrew,

Glad to see you've joined the Norvel fold. You might want to give the J B Weld another try. I've got several Norvels that have had the JB treatment and after 7 years, they're still holding. It does sound like you got a bad batch. From Crappy Tire maybe? But if you've got something better, that's certainly what I'd use.

Also, may I suggest that if you find compression seal lacking, anodize the piston and see if that helps. Don't colour it, just do the anodizing. While it might not be as hard as Norvel's factory version (as they do on their cylinders), any anodize is harder than the original aluminum and the bonus is that the anodize is porous and therefore holds oil and gives better compression seal,,, just like the Revlites. Worked for me.

But geez, whyntcha just buy a new Revlite?

ajcoholic

My Feedback: (10)

Guys, I was looking at the AP carb and the Norvel engine today at work on my break. I am going to machine up some adapters so I dont have to carve up either the case or the carb.

Since they worked so well (the carbs) on the 040 twins, I am hoping they will work good on the Norvel without any mods. I have a pusher design I want to build after I finish the Seneca, and I think the Norvel may get a shot at being in that plane. But if it actus up, I allways have enough Cox's to do the job

Gonna make a few for Dickeybird too, for being such a nice guy and getting me these carbs in the first place

AJC

Bipe Flyer

I have a Norvel carb body that has a broken "neck". You can have it if you think you can use it

ajcoholic

My Feedback: (10)

No thanks Bipe, I'll make up my own But thanks for thinking of me

AJC

Bipe Flyer

What! You don't want an old broken piece of aluminum?[sm=lol.gif]

I thought it might be useful as a template to make a new one.

ajcoholic

My Feedback: (10)

I appreciate the offer Bipe, but its a simple job I think to match the inside shape of the ccase where the carb adapter will sit.

Please dont hesitate to offer me free stuff in the future though!

AJC

zoomzoooie

I bought a Norvel .061 on ebay. The box it came in says Big Mig .061R/C BRC. It looks band new. I haven't run it yet. I wanted to know which one it was. In reading here it appears to be the early AAC model. It looks just like the one Ajcoholic has in his hand except the head is aluminum in color. The carb looks just like the AP carb in the bag and Bipe Flyers busted up aluminum scrap (no screw mount hole).

So My question is, how good is this model compared to the later ones. What is the difference between them? Which has better performance and reliability. The later engines looks like they would weigh more with the bigger finned cylinders. Probably not significant.

I noticed there are differences in the carbs on these engines. Some have the needle valve through the center of the venturi, like mine, and some have it at the rear of the carb and on an angle. Some of these angled needle valve setups have a throttle.
Why the difference in the carbs on these engines.

ZZ

Bipe Flyer

ZZ,

Check out this thread to see the differences between a few models of Norvel.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/Norv...1469467/tm.htm

I have a few of the older ones and they work fine although I'd say the newer Revlite versions have a little more power. As for reliability, I've only ever had one quit in the air if I ran the tank dry, which happens every flight with my hand launch stuff. I just weighed a couple and the newer revlite version weighs 2 grams more.

The only carbs I've seen with the rear needle are the CL versions.

gws1

My Feedback: (13)

I have an older Norvel just like yours, and have an AP carb coming this week. I ordered the carb to try some experimenting with a throttled reedy like japanman had a thread about. I may end up putting it on the Norvel because I want to build a Half-Wit, and don't have anything smaller than a 074 that is throttleable.

Are you going to press fit your adapters back in, or use a screw mount?

Greg

ajcoholic

My Feedback: (10)

Probably try and press fit them into the ccase, and use the two small screws to attach the AP carb.

You were talking to me were'nt you?

AJC