ajcoholic

My Feedback: (10)

I was just thinking today, about a thread we had running last year after the 1st RCU 1/2A design contest. It was one thing a fellow said in particular - about that he thought a "design" contest should be an original design, not a scale model of a full size plane that allready exists. He stated (if I remember correctly) that it was too easy to simply "scale down" a plane that you dont have to actually "design"....

Well, here is what I know know. I have designed and built 9 of my own models in the last 4 years. Untill I built my Seneca (this years entry for me) I had only done sport models, ie, never tried a scale model. I was intimidated to even try. It scared me! Seriously, I watched last year at the beautifull planes that were entered. Man, that was awesome.

I think now that the fellow who posted that comment, obviosuly NEVER designed and built a scale model. Now I know that it is as difficult, and im many respects more so, than doing a sport model. From a building/construction point of view that is. Sure, you are more or less guaranteed of a decent flying airframe (with some exceptions, I am assuming the builder knows about basic model construction) but there are a lot more things to worry about.

Now I have a much greater understanding, and respect, for you guys who do these scale planes ALL the time, not just for a contest...

AJC

nekked_man_2000

Nearly all of my designs are at least "sorta scale", I have no imagination, and no artistic ablility. But, I do know what I want, and there aren't a lot of kits that fill the bill for me. I'm currently designing a T-28 "fun fly" type of plane, it allows me to hide the muffler in the cowl, stick the wing almost inline with the thrust line(moved it up), it has a lot of tale area. I'm using a fully symmetrical wing, about 22%thick, with 3" full length flaperons, and expect to have a ready to fly weight of around 4pounds(.40 size). How can anyone say that is not designing? All I'm using is a sideview and a top view, if I could draw something pretty I would, but how would that make it any different? Lots of scale designs look good, and don't fly worth a crap, or have nasty snap roll tendancies...I like a warbird that flies like an extra, and it can be done, but most of the available kits and plans don't. So YES, I consider it designing. If it is so easy to make a scale model, why are there so many plans available?

On a different topic, your contest entry is NICE! Too bad you didn't design it yourself...

Austin

Lynn S

AJ, what you are building is a work of art, just building the engines is pretty amazing in itself...[8D]

ajcoholic

My Feedback: (10)

This thread isnt about "me" but about ALL the guys here that design and build scale 1/2A models.... Its about the difference between building a scale model VS a sport model, and how I have learned the differences becasue of my contest choice.

I will say, now that I have had a taste ot scale, I LIKE IT!! I like it a LOT!!

Why didnt you guys tell me about this a long time ago?

I was mainly just thinking of the guy that thought that the scale guys (who won last year) didnt deserve to "win" because they didnt really "design" their planes.... which of course is nonsense. Now I know that for fact, last year I didnt.

I am allready thinking of my next scale plane.... that tells me a lot. It tells me I am enjoying a whole new aspect of model airplane design and building...

AJC

Ragwing

My Feedback: (2)

I think there are varying degrees of design. I've been building a scale model for the contest, my first really scale model, and first scratch build. It has been a lot of fun, and really challenging. Obviously I didn't come up with the proportions or gentle curves that of the aircraft, but those elements are just a fraction of the work it takes when you try and convert an outline to a workable design that is nice to look at and flies well. I agree with AJC, I don't feel that my accomplishment was somehow less because I used an outline that someone else came up.

However, when I look at the planes that people have designed for a purpose, like Matchless's Caliente, I think it goes a step beyond what I have done. With designs like that, the builder really has to do more than just design a structure. The design has to meet a set of criteria. That takes the design process to a different level.

All and all, when you start to draw up your own plans, it is time to put up or shut up. I've felt in the past like I came on to this forum to learn, because I don't have a lot of experience with which to advise. So this contest and this project gave me a chance to put what I have gathered to application. It has been a lot of fun, and it has only increased the number of projects that will be competing for my time when I finish this plane.

Kudos to any of you who make it through this dribble , I guess I should just sum it all up as:

I agree

Derek

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

HI AJC! It used to be the case in AMA or FAI competition that what you were involved with was a design contest, before the age of the ARFS. It is still lots of fun for those who don't buy ARF combat, or pylon,etc. planes to scratch build something with an intended purpose. I see vacuforming as key to being able to pull off scale modeling of ANY subject, and keeping the weight to a minimum. The other skill that I'm super impressed with is doing the whole plane as a lay up, like NEWTECK! When he first posted his plans for what to build this year, I came out and said, "OINK"[or something like that] I thought it would be way to heavy. His plane came out almost as light as it did beautiful[and it hasn't garnered as much attention as it deserves]. The contest is serving it's purpose really well, and providing all of us with a wide variety of neat stuff to look at! The part of the contest you didn't hear about[I think you were away] was how we were going to donate our planes to my 1/2A MUSEUM OF FLIGHT! Just think about what an honor it will be! As curator, I promise to give the entire inventory regular workouts, FREE!!

ajcoholic

My Feedback: (10)

CP - I knew you were a gentleman,... how nice of you to take our planes, and even fly them once and a while!!

I am following the thread about Newteck's plane... believe me thats something I never have seen before. Its awesome! Allways something to learn and someone to learn from...

AJC

matchlessaero

Je consens mon ami! ( I agree my friend...)

Both of them provide their challenges....

Coming up with a totally original shape for a sport plane is tough, but it has its freedom. You have to think outside the box and create a shape that says what you want it to say both through asthetics and performance(sometimes more one than the other)....

On the flip side, trying to fulfill someone's preconcieved notion of what a plane should look like and fly like has its own set of challenges. Creating something in miniature that is an accurate representation of the 'real' thing while preserving flight characteristics that don't scale down at the same rate as the asthetics is a true accomplishment.

Frankly, I like 'em both.

Now something that is really fun is to do a 'cartoonish' version of something real. Then you get a little of both approaches (check out BMatthews cute little FF GeeBee type thing on the Smallflyingarts.com webpage to see what I mean)

Bipe Flyer

Building a scale model means that a lot of decisions are already made, but it also raises a whole new set of design problems to keep the plane looking scale. One luxury you don't have is moving or changing the shape of something to make construction easier or save weight etc.

I'm with matchlessaero; I like 'em both. Especially if it's a biplane.

Digger-RCU

I am enjoying this thread guys.

For me, building scale means having a fight with yourself.
The Mig was a constant fight between scale looks and what I thought would be good flight stats. I would stretch the wing on the the design, and then walk around the house for an hour and tell myself how ugly I thought it looked. Then, I'd go and change it and complain to my wife that there wasnt enought wing area. (Like she cared!)

The flip-side is that I dont think I have enough creativity to just go hog wild. The consept of "Anything" is very daunting to me. The blank page scares the crap out of me!

Now you take guys like AJ and Matchless and you get both! Unfair unfair unfair! And of course, they both have to brag about it!

I didnt know I could design a scale plane when we started last year, so I guess I should try something abstract that comes only from my mind. Any Ideas guys? GRIN

Randy (Digger) Birt

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

In the ELECTRICIANS' entrance exam to the apprenticeship they called the visualisation skill, "SPACIAL APTITUDE". The ability to understand what it will take to make a miniature fly the way you want it to, and still look scale, or maybe better said recognizable is the quest some of us are on. I lean towards flyability. A pilot in a real P51 could lose 500 feet after sneezing, and I have seen examples of P51s, P47s, etc., that were exact scale that would do the same, so I don't see anything wrong with cheating on your MIG, if the end result gives you more fun, and less white hair while flying. Too much time and money spent on a plane decreases my enjoyment of flying it also.