Bobsean

Hey evaeryone! I have one of these little planes that i built about 90% of about a year ago then set aside for school, sports, and other stuff. I wanted to hear other peoples comments on this plane. Also, I intend to one of the small norvel motors as a powerplant. I don't know much about these motors and would also like to hear any remarks concerning this item too. Thx.

flyinrog

My Feedback: (1)

Dont know about the plane, but I'd go with a Norvel as opposed to cox as you will need a throttle
on it. I have the .049.061.074 engines and they are all good engines, the .074 being quite the little powerhouse (as I plowed it into the ground and bent the needle beyond repair) said to have the power of a .10,....Rog

Scar

My Feedback: (3)

I have the Aqua Star. Delightful kit to build. Powered with a Norvel .061, I never got it to rise off water, but it hand launches quite nicley. Break in the engine before you fly, and balance with a battery or something clear in the front of the nose. I had to hack the formers out to get my square battery up in there.

Make sure to put the switch up high, preferably behind the wing on top, to keep water from spraying into it. Seal the wing mounting with clear silicon RTV, put waxed paper on the wing & a bead of silicon around the saddle, put the wing in place and leave it for a day or two. Then remove the wing, peel off the wax paper and trim off excess RTV.

Cut some Sharpie pen caps in half, to make blisters around the pushrod exits on the back. Water will get in there.

The tailfeathers are just flat thin balsa. I went to a lot of work to slot the thin balsa for CA hinges, and it worked, but then I learned about Monokote hinging. Would have been easier.

If you make the "chines" larger, and mount them out front a bit further, they MIGHT keep water from sucking up into the prop. I gave up on ROW, and just handlaunched, it's a fun plane.

Good luck,
Dave Olson

Bobsean

Thx for the info! I have all the frame work done and covering but the elevator. I look forward to flying it, but I am dissapointed to hear about its ROW characteristics. Did you make the chines that came included in the box? It still looks like fun and the laser cut parts made all the difference.

here is a photo of my Aqua Star...

tpstorey

Check this thread to see how I got mine to ROW (rise of water):

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_48.../tm.htm#480035

Bobsean

Thx for the link. Its nice to hear that its possible. So what did you find out was the key to making it ROW? I noticed that you had long "chines", they went all the way to the step, and that they were set at a very obtuse angle.

BMatthews

Bobsean, I think you'll find that it'll ROW easier if you flatten the V angle on the bottom. Deeper V angles won't plane across the water as well as a flatter shape. If you're good you can leave it with the attractive deeper V at the nose and flatten out the angle so that it's only about 5 degrees by the time it's under the prop. Hold that 5 degrees (2.5 per side) back to the step and it'll tend to lift and plane much easier. You may want to add Tim's chine edges as well as they will help keep the spray out of the prop.

She's a cute design. Best of luck with it.

tpstorey

Bobsean, to get it to ROW:

1.) Like with all small birds, lighter is better. I use all micro stuff in mine and an old style Norvel Big Mig .061 for power (bought a .074 to try but haven't gotten around to it). AUW is 18.3 ounces. I'm using 25% to 30% nitro fuel and a Cox grey 6x3. Someone else might have a better prop rec.

2.) Make sure you are not nose heavy. Mine is not tail or nose heavy. It takes a very small amount of down elevator to fly inverted.

3.) Add the chines like I described in the post I noted. I tried all kinds of shapes, sizes, and lengths, and these are the ones that work best. The chines not only redirect spray away from the prop, but because they extend all the way to the step, they also help lift the plane onto the step (make sure they stick straight out from the side).

4.) Move the tip floats in one rib bay. This also helps lift the plane on to the step.

5.) Use good take-off technique: full up till the plane is moving--slowly release up to allow the plane to "settle" onto the step--allow the plane to accelerate to take-off speed--add a "pinch" of up to lift off.

Good luck!

tpstorey

BTW, I totally agree with BMatthews. Flat/flatter bottom floats/hulls definitely get onto step and lift off easier, and the v on the Aquastar is pretty deep. If I were going to build another I would definitely use BMatthews' suggestion.

BuzzardsFly

I agree as well, i have some experience with deep vee racing boats, mainly ski racing.

The deep vee is very good for turning corners at high speed in the river - 120mph+, wheras a flat bottom dinghy will plane with a 6hp engine, but wont turn very well.

Chris

Zeroman

Here are some mods that have been done to my Aqua star.Engine pod is now mounted on the fuse,also the tail section is lenghtened to compensate for the engine weight which is farther forward.Also added some strakes on the fuse. The wing has been lengthened by one bay each side.The engine is a Thunder Tiger .010.It takes off from the water easily and flies touch and gos all day long.This plane is alot of fun to build and fly.If you have water around your area,dont hesitate in getting this little plane.Regards Chris.

Bobsean

Thanks for all the responses, Im glad to hear that its possible. Now to go work with the plane!
-bobsean-

Dan Vincent

This has been a great thread. You are converting a Deep-V hull to a Ski-boat. Since airplanes travel in a straight line for take-off and landings it just makes sense to get away from the drag of the Deep-V hull.

tpstorey

Agreed. V-bottom floats are better at cutting through waves without bouncing and track a bit better than flat bottoms, but when on step, they still leave a footprint that requires extra power to unstick from water and lift off. Flat bottoms, on the other hand, continue to rise out of the water until there is virtually no footprint left to unstick from. Besides, with flat bottom floats you can do way-cool skidding turns.

goldguy

The Aqua Star that Zeroman is showing off not only has the additions to the side of the hull, but it was origionally built 1/2 inch wider to improve floatation, which didn't work, hence the side pods. The other modifications were inspired by Nick Ziroli's FM article on his "E" conversion.

I have built two ASs' and they both suffered from the same problem, the hull is too narrow which doesn't provide enough floatation and the hull ploughs into the water. The result is water coming over the nose into the prop, which doesn't allow the motor to get up to speed.

One other important factor in getting it to ROW, is approximately 3 degrees of up thrust in the motor. It helps pull the hull up on the step and keep in mind that with the engine above the wing, it actually acts as down thrust in flight. Chris meant a TT .07 for power.

Just finished "kit bashing" a HOB Float Fly 10 and converted it to "E"power using BL and lipos. It has a flat bottom, ROWs' no problem, flys great and at 22 ounces flys up a storm for 20 minutes per charge.

fly SMALL, have a BALL

Mr. Mugen

Well I ordered one of these before they too went up in price. Always liked the looks of it. By the sounds of it I have my work cut out for a first time kit build. I guess once I start the build I will have more Q's for you guys who own this plane. I plan to use either a Norvel 061 or 074. Better look in the engine stash and see whats is available. Got this new OS 10 here but it sounds like a heavy feat to get it up and ready with it. Any way around that? Maybe adding some wing area? I am new to this so bear with my off the wall questions.

Kevin

Jburry

How'd I miss this thread?

I have an aquastar, built mostly stock. Mine rows well, if not with great ease. I'll try to give a summary of all that was required (nowhere near as much as some here have done!).

The Aquastar is the plane that got me into this hobby, just as the Norvel .061 is the engine that did the same. It's a beautiful design, and I especially like the deep V hull. Not optimum for getting up on step, it does serve its purpose.

First, there is an error in the Aquastar plans. This is key. The plans, and the supplied parts, result in about 3 degrees of downthrust on the engine. The engine points downwards. This is incorrect, there should be about 2-3 degrees of up thrust. Upthrust is appropriate whenever the engine's thrustline is above the aircraft's centre of drag, as is the case with the aquastar. With downthrust, the prop blast is also directed too high and does not impinge on the elevator, making ROW all but impossible. Upthrust puts some air on the elevator. Removing downthrust is noted on an addendum leaflet in the kit box, but is missed by many

Second, chine rails must be installed. The ones in the addendum are a bit short. They should go all the way to the nose, and all the way back to the step, about 3/8" wide, pointing downward and out from the hull at about 45 degrees. THis creates a sort of a mix between a deep V hull and a double tunnel hull. Better hydrodynamic lift, and less splash in the prop.

Relocate the tail pushrods to the top of the fuse. The exit as in the plan will allow water in the back of the fuse, potentially creating a variable tail-heavy condition. Cover over the pushrod exits with a bit of extra covering, so as to make an exit shielded from water coming from the front of the craft. Lighter than the pencaps mentioned above. A dab of vaseline makes sure.

Move the tip floats in 1 bay.

My plane features strip ailerons and less than 1/2 the dihedral. Much better this way! Also, a bolt on wing is easier to manage, and removing the wing is seldom necessary on this size craft.

Seal the wingroot as per recommendations by others above. I too used RTV and cellophane to build the seal, and make it real sure with a skim of vaseline before water operations.

I sealed my switch by placing it in the finger tip of a nitrile glove, and using RTV to seal that in the fuse hole. Works awesome.

All told, my Aquastar came out at about 22 oz dry. Yup, it's a bit heavy. But it's still ROW'd 6 times in 3 float flies over the last 2 years, and impresses all spectators with its performance. Take-off technique is key.

Waves must be under about 3-4 inches (duh). When you hit the water, apply full up elevator. Roll on the throttle. For a bit, the plane will slowly move out, with the waves regularly breaking over the bow, into the prop, "Mush, whine, mush, whine" as the engine is hit with splash after splash. In 10-20 feet, the plane begins to transition to step. The tail drops noticably, and the bow rises. The mushing stops, as the bow is now clear. Quickly, the plane is on step. Relax up elevator and allow the plane to accelerate. When she's just skipping along, ease in elevator and she's off. I typically stop while still in ground effect to gain more speed still, and then it's up, up and away.

The real keys to success are correct CG (I use 32% MAC to good effect, still very easy to fly), good chine rails, and most important UP THRUST!!!

Here's a photo of my Aquastar catching me by surprise. This was my last flight off water with it so far. I had her fired up, and running fine. I placed her in the water running WOT. Little bugger never bothered running in displacement mode this time, and in the photo is lifting off about 20' off shore, before I even got my antenna out. Don't worry, I remembered.

Now, I told ya I'd comment on the beauty of that V-hull. You can land this little bird on water just about as hard as you want, and she responds gracefully. Simply flying it in on a 5 degree slope, and it'll hit, plow a bit and scoop right back out of the water. Lands like it's on a huge shock absorber. No, I don't do this regularly, but I've done it by mistake a time or 2 and it's done great!

My favorite little plane, I'll cry when her time comes.

3 photos: Surprise take-off (ROW), returning from a flight (note how wet she got, and how low she floats!), and taxiing for take-off still in displacement mode. The mist is from water striking the prop.

J

Jburry

Couple more shots showing upthrust and chine rail details (I'd bring 'em all the way forward if I built her again)....

One other change I made... Fully enclosed the fuel tank in the pylon. Didn't like the kit setup....

J

Jburry

Hey Mugen,

The problem with using a larger engine than an .061 is going to be all-up weight and prop clearance. THe plane is setup for a 6" prop, likely a bit small for a .10. They do not recommend using even the Norvel .074, saying it's too heavy too.

At 22oz, mine's a bit heavy with .061 power, falling off the second side of a cuban 8 unless great care is taken. It does fly very nicely, though, I'm just spoiled by the power of some of my other planes....

6x2 apc is the prop to use, allowing best thrust and adequate top speed. It's all about thrust hauling this little boat off the water.

If you need to use a larger engine, for whatever reason, I'd simply widen the hull by half an inch or so. Just a few new formers to make up and a bit of extra hull sheeting. It's flotation this model is hurting for, not wing area. Look in the taxiing photo in my post above to see how low 22 oz floats on that hull. Not alot of freeboard.

Anyway, this is one of the nicest kits I've seen to build, and it builds a very pretty plane. I like to joke that I just threw a bottle of CA in the box, shook it a bit and out popped the completed airframe. Not far from the truth, in reality I think it took 3 evenings. Most of my extra weight came from grossly excessive use of CA.... Mine has almost 3 oz of CA in it.... Live and learn.

J

Mr. Mugen

Thanks a bunch for the pointers. I will be putting a .061 and shooting for a light build. There must be 20 micro servos in the drawer so thats covered, have a berg rx already and some small lipos for rx pack. What is the lightest yet strong covering?

Jburry

Mine's done in ultracote, since I like working with it. It is one of the heavier covers, tho... I'm not sure which ones are lightest...

To me durability was important, since this will regularly be belly landed, on water and grass... I installed about 3 layers on the bottom of the hull forward of the step....

J

Kievlanin

Did you made it fly eventually?

subarubrat

My Feedback: (1)

Here is mine I built years ago, it is electric not glow though, but it would come off the water before you could get the throttle from off to full and would really scream. One mod I did that ended up being purely cosmetic and had no impact on airspeed was to add retractable tip floats. It look so much more elegant and it looks really neat to see them drop down just before you land.

http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_48...tm.htm#4854821