DualdudE

A very friendly user on this forum supplied me with a Cox (Babe Bee?) .049 which i'm very thankful for. Very cute looking little engine. Now i have to build a plane for it. I really like the looks of the 'Littlest Stick" and the "Match Stick", BUT i've heard the Littlest stick comes down pretty fast, and thats a characteristic that i don't like in an airplane since i'm not so experienced and like all the time i can get to plan a 'deadstick' landing. So i decided to alternate several things to optimize the ease of flying.

The basic idea is to construct it like a trainer, but don't let it look like one. My idea was to create a wing with a flat bottom profile (clark y?) and a little dihedral. If i take the Littlest Stick/Match Stick as a base for the design i guess i should scale it up to 150% according to all the LS150 topics i've found. To avoid the plane climbs like an idiot i'd like to remove the 'wing setup angle" (can't remember what you guys called it), and set it to zero degrees. I was thinking of making it with ailerons and elevator.

Would this all be smart and give the results i expect? Or do you say stop acting so foolish and just build the damn thing straight from the plan The point is i'm not flying that long and i'm not so experienced yet. I've flown a regular .53 size aileron trainer for a year and thats all the experience i have.

Comments are very welcome

This is the cox:

Tim Wiltse-RCU

Alex,

Go for it!!! Blow the thing up 150% add a bay or two to the wing to make it 36" wide. This will help slow it down as it is pretty fast at 30". I narrowed my fuse down by 1/2" or so and I think Jboy381 shortened it's hight by an inch. It just makes the fuse look better. It's so easy to build. It will take like 2 or 3 nights to get it done!!! The little Cox .049 will pull it around real easy.

Later,
Tim

BMatthews

Welcome to the small side of the Universe! [8D]

The engine you have there is the 290 product engine. It should have the twin bypass flutes between the exhaust ports. If there are two flutes then this is a hot little engine and will serve you well. Look up the thread on making the Fuji film canister fuel tank. That's a good companion to this engine.

With your background on that other trainer I would say you'll be fine. Go with Tim's idea to add an extra rib bay on each side for a bit more wing area and keep the weight down to about 16 oz or less and it'll glide like a feather. If you fly off grass then forget landing gear and just hand launch and belly land. You can save an ounce or two that way.

Narrowing the fuselage is fine if you wish but I would advise against shortening it. With the added wing area shortening the fuselage may bring on some stability issues.

Tim Wiltse-RCU

Bruce,

What I meant by shortening it was taking 1/2 off the bottom not off the length!

Later,
Tim

Lynn S

Dualdude,
The LS150 will fly with the cox .049 just fine. It doesn't fall out of the sky in the 150% version (like the tiny 19 inch wingspan original size) It will be more of a floater(trainer) with an extra bay(rib) on each wing panel. That will give you a 35 inch wing. This will make a nice trainer. You can use power to get it up really high then have a long glide in. With the standard wing it will come down faster. But the good thing is you have an elevator to flair your landing.
I have a LS150 that is rudder only and it is so easy to fly even with no elevator. It has the 35 inch wing, but you have to be a graduate of the Bruce Matthews Rudder Only Flight School in order to try it.
You can take the incidence out of the wing by making a copy of the wing saddle, draw a line through the chord. then place this copy over the saddle on the plans and level the chord line with the bottom of the plane(lower the front of the wing). You will then draw a line over to the saddle to the firewall.
Leave the fuse wide(and tall), that gives you more room to work with inside the plane. I like the stubby looks!
You don't really need ailerons, just rudder and elevator is fine as a trainer.
To show how strong the LS150 is....I flew mine last weekend and the engine wasn't running very well and died. I didn't set up a very good landing and hit the top wire to the power lines going to my house.
The wire caught the engine right on the cylinder and it fell to the ground from about 30 ft, nose first. There was no damage at all, not a scratch!
I've got a new Norvel .049 to try out on my LS150. That should be a blast to fly.
If you decide to build it with ailerons and elevator, build the wing in one piece and flat (no dihedral).

If you have any questions just ask.

Lynn S

DualdudE

First i want to thank you all for the very useful information. Incidence, that was the word I came up with the idea to remove it cause i read it could be a possible solution to make it float better. But since that isn't much of an issue with the enlarged version with extended wing, i guess i can leave that as it is. And i can always build a second fuse without incidence.

I decided to go for elevator and ailerons. I have flown with trainers with just a rudder, and with ailerons. Ailerons respond a bit more 'direct' and i like that. I also like the idea to build the wing in once piece and flat. It's a little more easy to construct.

The crash-proofness (is that even a word ) could possibly come because it's light. Not much kinetic energy to build up.

I have to think about what i will do with covering. I think it would be 'wrong' to cover it with oracover or something alike. It's just not old-fashion enough I could use Oratex or Solartex, but thats more heavy. Oralight would be the most ideal. Covering it with paper/silk and dope would be the most genuine way i guess but thats also a little weighty i guess.

Lynn S

Dualdude, I used some 13 yr old monokote to cover my plane and it still went on fine. You can even use full size servos, it will fly with anything you put in it as long as you have a good running engine.
I might add that its easy to hand launch. You don't have to run with it. Just give it a good level throw. I have a video in one of my old post, I'll try to find it.
I can hear people in the Netherlands saying "Look! up in the sky, its a bird! its a plane! ....its......Alex and his LS150!!!

DualdudE

LOL!

Servo's i already have. I've got some Waypoint W-150 metalgear micro servo's. Metalgear is overkill but it's what i have. I think i'll go for the solartex, it gives a more oldtimer-like look. I like that


edit:
I came across this thread while searching for the vid. also. Your post makes me conclude i better remove the incidence from the wing.

And it's about time for bed now.. it's 01:31 in the night...got a little carried away

Lynn S

Alex,
The positive incidence (upward tilt of the wing)is for Rudder Only flying. It will fly a lot better without it. The original Littlest Stick is designed as a rudder only plane.The positive incidence makes the plane CLIMB. That is how rudder only planes fly, they are in a constant climb until the engine dies. Its like flying with a lot of up trim. You would have to give it down elevator trim to over ride this.
They(RO) are designed to Loop if enough speed is built up in a spiral dive. (which is fun to do) This is good for rudder only planes but not good if you have an elevator. You can give it as much elevator as you want when you need it. The incidence will not help it to fly any slower than giving it up elevator would.
So be sure to lower the front of the wing saddle on your plans as I mentioned above.

Edit: I just read in your last post that you will take the incidence out.....Nevermind

gcb

Another option is the Renaud Q-Tee. Nice little high wing rudder/elevator, no ailerons. Not sure who makes the kit now, built mine from plans. It appears to be the plane the "Cutie" electric was derived from.

George

nekked_man_2000

Another great flying plane with a reed valve .049 is the Beetween designed by Randy Randolph. This was the first plane I ever scratch built, and it was a snap, with very few pieces. It is low wing, has a 36" wing, and flies with full size radio gear, kind of a between the wars type of low wing trainer, thus the name.

mclintock

My Feedback: (3)

dchobby.com kits the old Airtronics Q-tee again, now featuring laser cutting..
Laser cutting is the new teflon!



Also tempting is the hobby lobby mini telemaster-



I have a kit and an engine for it, but it sits in it's box in my dining room still waiting for me to glue it together. Plus BMatthews said he had first dibs, so I gotta wait for him to build his (and work out any bugs in the conversion to glow!)

here are some threads about it..
[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_1652319/anchors_1652319/mpage_1/key_telemaster/anchor/tm.htm#1652319]a thread about trainers..[/link]

[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_1661632/anchors_1661632/mpage_1/key_telemaster/anchor/tm.htm#1661632]another thread[/link]

Oh wait- I re read your first post and you said you didn't want a plane that looked like a trainer...
oops.. not much to do to make the telemaster not look like a trainer.. even with p-40 warhawk style teeth painted on, it's gonna look like a trainer..

DualdudE

I miss one thing on the plan of the littlest stick. I can't find the balance point. It's very common that it's at one third of the wing, seen from the leading edge. But does that count for this little thingy too?

And the down and sidethrust for the engine. Do i need to keep that as described on the plan? Or could i also reduce the downthrust cause i'm going to remove the incidence of the wing?

DualdudE

@mclintock

I like the looks of the mini telemaster. A member at our field has it with floats and an electric motor. But when i read the thread, it's a little heavy for the .049 Cox i have.

ZAGNUT

My Feedback: (1)

keep it simple and just do rudder/elevator. with the right amount of dihedral you'll be able to roll all day long. keep some incidence at the root and then twist in some washout when you cover the wing. this should make it nice and stable when you come down without power. the right/down thrust is there to make the transition from full power to no power a bit friendlier without too much fiddling with the trims.

the most important part is to have fun! that's what these little planes are all about. i guarantee that you won't stop once you start.


dave

DualdudE

When i'm correct, ailerons respond more directly than a rudder. And to create ailerons isn't much fuzz. I've flown both rudder only (Robbe Charter), and aileron planes (Graupner Trainer 65, my own trainer). The one with ailerons fly's much better imho

Dukester

My Feedback: (31)

I sure like the look of that Beetween. Anybody know where one mught find the plans?

Thanks,
Duke

BMatthews

The downthrust is related to it's rudder only heritage and you're quite right that if you use an elevator you can take out about 1/2 to 2/3's of what is there now along with reducing the incidence. Balance right on the spar and it should be fine.

cortacesped

I agree with Dukester, the Between is a very nice plane !! . Maybe Dave Fritzke could help us with the plans.

Claudio

Lynn S

Dualdude, Bruce is right about the down and right thrust, and balance.

Use 3/32 sheet balsa for everything except the firewall,and 1/4 sq. for the spars and leading edge(which is rounded). I like the ca hinges.
I stack sheets of balsa and use a glue stick to stick the rib pattern on the top.and cut half of my wing ribs out at one time with a bandsaw.(enough for one side) you could cut all of them but that would make a tall stack to cut.
that is what I do with all the parts, use a glue stick and stick the plan part on to the balsa and cut. You can cut both sides at one time.
Remember to change the incidence of the wing saddle before you cut out the sides.

Edit: it usually takes extra weight in the front to make it balance. You could add about 1 inch to the front end to help make it balance without adding so much weight.

Tom @ Buzzard Bluff

Maybe not-----------might be some copyright concerns since it was published as a free centerfold plan by Model Airplane News in the late '80s or early '90s. Bet they'll sell you a plan tho.

nekked_man_2000 wrote:
<Another great flying plane with a reed valve .049 is the Beetween designed by Randy Randolph. This was the first plane I ever scratch built, and it was a snap, with very few pieces. It is low wing, has a 36" wing, and flies with full size radio gear, kind of a between the wars type of low wing trainer, thus the name.>

And also because the prototype had a Cox Golden Bee in the snoot. How do I know that? Check the text of the article if you still have it. Tom

DualdudE

I've made a pic of the ports, doesn't look like there are two.



But Zagnut told me there was some porting done on the engine so it could be that it isn't original anymore

Today i ordered a tank for it. The LHS didn't have one of a size i wanted. And the Fuji experiment didn't work out. I couldn't get the brass tubes sealed where they would go trough the 'tank'. Now i ordered a small 40cc's graupner tank. I'll guess it will get in somewhere next week

William Robison

My Feedback: (3)

Alex:

Your picture doesn't show whether your engine is single or double bypass.

You can see where the pictured bypass is between the exhaust ports. Now look at the area opposite what you pictured. If you see plain cylinder wall on the other side yours is a single bypass, but most Coxes had a second bypass opposite the one you showed. If it's there you do have the double bypass cylinder.

Bill.

ZAGNUT

My Feedback: (1)

it's a widow dual bypass cylinder with SPI. it has been ported but not by me...the exhaust ports are stock but the bypasses have been deepened and the tops squared off. was one of the only rust free cylinders i could find.
tested it on 10% nitro and got 15K with the MAS 6x3. seems i remember the stock widows and product engines being quite a bit slower...


dave

DualdudE

The otherside looks the same indeed I misunderstood, i thought there where "supposed to be" two on the same side :P