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Throttled .010's

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Old 10-11-2004, 10:43 AM
  #1  
Steve Westphal
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Default Throttled .010's

I've been on vacation so haven't followed up on much. Does anyone have an update on availibility of those little throttled(PET) .010's that caused such a stir a while back on the discussion board. Thanks.
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Old 10-11-2004, 11:10 AM
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Tim Wiltse-RCU
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Default RE: Throttled .010's

Sure if you really want a .010 throttle without all the BS from the owner get ahold of Steve Adams. He makes a great little throttle for the .010 and .020's.

Later,
Tim Wiltse
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Old 10-11-2004, 11:13 AM
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Default RE: Throttled .010's

The pets never happened but the November edition of 'Model Aviation' has pictures of and writeup about Steve Adams' throttle in 'The Engine Shop'.
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Old 10-11-2004, 11:37 AM
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Default RE: Throttled .010's

I have one of Steve's throttles for a .010. Mine works quite well. Very nice machine work and fit. It is based on the throttle sleeve as per the .020 and .049s. This design has always worked very well on all my Cox engines. Steve is a nice guy and is reachable for questions. He also flies what he makes!

Bob Harris
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Old 10-11-2004, 02:43 PM
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Default RE: Throttled .010's

We were all (or at least some of us) waiting for the write-up in Flying Models on the MicroFlite P.E.T. throttled 0.010 Coxes.

I got the magazine, and the fancy write-up is only a mention in passing. No review, no comments, no opinions.

Bill.
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Old 10-12-2004, 05:34 AM
  #6  
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Default RE: Throttled .010's

Steve,

The MICRO-FLITE/COX TD .010 ā€œR/Cā€ ENGINE is in stock and ready for immediate shipment! We are shipping .010 "R/C" ENGINES every week!!

The last time I posted on the RCU FORUM I was reluctant to "upstage" Andy Woitowicz and Randy Randolph by answering specific questions on the performance of the .010 ā€œR/Cā€ ENGINE. I had promised Randy that he would be the first to report in the model magazines about the .010 ā€œR/Cā€ ENGINE and Andy would be the first to report on the RCU FORUM, because both of these R/C modelers are very credible and honest in their reporting. Now that Andy and Randy have reported on the .010 ā€œR/Cā€ ENGINE, I am finally free to answer any specific questions you might have pertaining to the .010 ā€œR/Cā€ ENGINE, etc..

Roger
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Old 10-12-2004, 05:35 AM
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Default RE: Throttled .010's

ORIGINAL: mclintock

The pets never happened but the November edition of 'Model Aviation' has pictures of and writeup about Steve Adams' throttle in 'The Engine Shop'.
"The pets never happened..."? I believe Steve Adams (skaliwag) is honest enough not to agree with that statement! He has a MICRO-FLITE/COX TD .010 ā€œR/Cā€ ENGINE with a PET, along with MICRO-FLITE'S entire "1/8A" product line. We hope that Steve has a lot of fun with his PET!! You see, some of us are not willing to sacrifice our own personal pleasure in the R/C hobby, just to pacify other modelers' prejudice against a company. We are shipping PET'S every week!! Eventually even your R/C modeling friends will have PET'S, because they also are in this hobby for fun -- not for self sacrifice!

You might be surprised to hear that Joe Wagner, who writes The Engine Shop column for MODEL AVIATION, also has a MICRO-FLITE/COX TD .010 ā€œR/Cā€ ENGINE and MICRO-FLITE'S other "1/8A" products that are pictured and described on MICRO-FLITE'S web site (www.micro-flite.com). Joe e-mailed MICRO-FLITE that he would be doing an engine review on the .010 "R/C" ENGINE and MICRO-FLITE'S entire "1/8A" product line for MODEL AVIATION. Joe also said he will be taking pictures of our "1/8A" products and submitting them for publication in Modeler's Mall (new products DEPARTMENT).

"The pets never happened..."? "That never panned out."? Don't miss Joe's .010 "R/C" ENGINE review in MODEL AVIATION! The PET is patented, in production, and being shipped. THE PET HAPPENED!!



Roger
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Old 10-12-2004, 05:36 AM
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Default RE: Throttled .010's

ORIGINAL: William Robison

We were all (or at least some of us) waiting for the write-up in Flying Models on the MicroFlite P.E.T. throttled 0.010 Coxes.

I got the magazine, and the fancy write-up is only a mention in passing. No review, no comments, no opinions.

Bill.
As you know, Randy Randolph, who writes the SMALL TALK column for FLYING MODELS, is not an engine reviewer, so he did not do an engine review of the MICRO-FLITE/COX TD .010 ā€œR/Cā€ ENGINE. However, as you also know, he is a famous very well trusted and respected 1/2A R/C modeler, by the RC community. Randy is the most published journalist, in the model magazines, on small R/C planes! After personally running and testing the .010 "R/C" ENGINE, Randy made the following comment in SMALL TALK in the November, 2004 issue of FLYING MODELS about the MICRO-FLITE/COX TD .010 ā€œR/Cā€ ENGINE: "Heck of an engine, especially when you consider it has a reliable throttle from dead idle to 32k rpm." [dynamic speed range] Randy emphasized the broad speed range and amazingly low idle for an .010 "R/C" ENGINE with additional comments: The COX .010 lives again...with a genuine throttle! ...a variable throttle that provides stand still idle all the way up to a 32k top."

Therefore, according to Randy, the MICRO-FLITE/COX TD .010 ā€œR/Cā€ ENGINE is a "...Heck of an engine...." with a very low idle, wide midrange, and high top-end rpm. Also, the letter from Andy Woitowicz that you posted on the RCU FORUM stated that the .010 "R/C" engine's idle "...was solid, reliable and transition to high was excellent." The comments from both Andy and Randy clearly indicate that the MICRO-FLITE/COX TD .010 ā€œR/Cā€ ENGINE indeed has the outstanding performance that has been claimed by our HIGH TECH universities and engineering schools that are working on Micro Air Vehicles (MAVs).

Frank Fanelli, who is editor of FLYING MODELS, has recently called MICRO-FLITE a couple times. Frank said his interest was really peaked by Randy Randolph's comments about the MICRO-FLITE/COX TD .010 ā€œR/Cā€ ENGINE in the November, 2004 issue of FLYING MODELS. Frank now has a MICRO-FLITE/COX TD .010 "R/C" ENGINE and MICRO-FLITE'S entire "1/8A" product line. He will be writing about the .010 "R/C" ENGINE, etc. in his future editorials. He also encouraged me to document MICRO-FLITE'S recently patented THERMAL EXHAUST THROTTLING technology, etc. in FLYING MODELS.

Roger
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Old 10-12-2004, 07:07 AM
  #9  
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Default RE: Throttled .010's

Steve,

Just so you know I am on my way to NE to wring your neck for bringing this subject up again If your are interseted in a MicroRunourmouth engine just remember that they told us in the last thread that you have to send them in writing what you want the engine to perform like and then they with decide if they want to sell you an engine.

MicroRunourmouth= 42 posts about nothing but theirselfs that should tell you something right there!

Later,
Tim
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Old 10-12-2004, 08:28 AM
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Tim Wiltse-RCU
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Default RE: Throttled .010's

Ok Roger here is a question. Please don't answer it with quotes or other nonsense. Just a straight answer in your own words. Do you fly model airplanes? I have read the patent info and looked at the pictures of the tech. drawings etc. No one ever said it would not work and I am sure it works well. It's just when you came here to blow your own horn and when pressed with questions all you gave us was the run around. You have to admit that it true. Andy was recovering from health problems for goodness sack. I just don't understand as many of us don't why you felt it was so important to wait on a fellow that was under the weather instead of just saying "hey guys I want this guy to give the details but here is the data I have" in plain simple terms not just all the hyped BS you gave. I asked, who knows how many timesthe rpm range on the PET engine in RPM's and all you would say was "park on run way idle". That just does not answer the question and you know that. What was the answer you gave something like "now that performance is an issue people have to send in writing what the expect of the engine and then MicroFlite will decide to sell an engine to them or not". That's just crazy. I guess my BIG question is after seeing the patent info and all what was the reason for getting a patent? In the end it's just a throttle sleeve made from brass sheet and a bucket load of screws and bolts. I understand the idea is to provide a better sealing fit but Andy only got his to go down to 11,000 or something. I don't see that being park on runway idle for alot of small planes. I am well aware of the difference between the expansion rate of the leaded steel cylinder and the brass. I can't find the post now but right here on RCU a long time ago a guy made a sheet brass throttle sleeve just like it. I don't see whats really "new" about it. A wheel by any other name is still a wheel.

later,
Tim Wiltse
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Old 10-12-2004, 09:09 AM
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Default RE: Throttled .010's

I figured out how to block a member's posts, which helps but how do I block an entire thread, title and all?
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Old 10-12-2004, 09:26 AM
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William Robison
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Default RE: Throttled .010's

Mac:

You can block an individual, or an entire forum in "My Forums." The only thing you can use for an individual thread is the "Remove Subscription" button near the top, on the right side. It will still show in the thread list, but you don't have to read it.

Bill.
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Old 10-12-2004, 09:48 AM
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Default RE: Throttled .010's

[how do I block an entire thread, title and all? ]

Look away.

jess
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Old 10-12-2004, 07:26 PM
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Default RE: Throttled .010's

You do NOT have to state the performance specifications of the MICRO-FLITE/COX TD .010 ā€œR/Cā€ ENGINE to purchase one!! PERIOD!!!!

In a previous posting I asked ONE (1) perspective customer what he expected as regards performance with the .010 "R/C" ENGINE. If MICRO-FLITE'S .010 "R/C" ENGINE met his performance expectations, we would continue with the sale. Unfortunately communication on the RCU FORUM often leads to a lot of misunderstandings. My statement is now being over generalized to EVERY perspective customer who might want to purchase an .010 "R/C" ENGINE. If you really want to get FACTUAL information about MICRO-FLITE'S "1/8A" products, you will get much more ACCURATE information by directing your questions to MICRO-FLITE (www.micro-flite.com or e-mail: micromall@seanet.com). This will avoid hearsay as much as possible!!!!

Roger
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Old 10-13-2004, 03:26 AM
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Default RE: Throttled .010's

Tim,

Since Andy and Randy have now reported on the .010 "R/C" ENGINE, which means I have fulfilled my promises, there is no longer any reason(s) not to directly answer your specific questions about the performance of the .010 "R/C" ENGINE. However, Randy now has established the credibility of MICRO-FLITE in the November, 2004 issue of FLYING MODELS, so we are very busy filling orders. Therefore, I will need to answer your questions in several postings on the RCU FORUM. To directly answer your first question, yes I do fly model airplanes! I began flying model airplanes way back in the late 1940's. In 1955 I purchased my first R/C model airplane kit. It was a CESSNA "170" by BERKELEY MODELS INC. (Advertised at the time as "GIANT SIZE SCALE" with a six foot wingspan.) When I was a public school teacher, back in the very early 1970's, I ran the model airplane club for our school. In 1975 I built and flew a "1/8A" Ace Littlest Stick with an Ace Pulse Commander R/C system (baby actuator). Ever since then I wanted a great working throttle for my COX TEE DEE .010 ENGINE. I now have one and very soon many other "1/8A" R/C modelers will have one!

Roger
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Old 10-13-2004, 05:07 AM
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Default RE: Throttled .010's

There's some serious head shaking and hat throwing going on at my place, is that bloke for real?
Please, no more!!!!! From what I've heard, if you want a great throttled Cox, go to S.G.Adams.
I have evoked "The Curse Of The Black Jelly Bean".
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Old 10-13-2004, 08:01 AM
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Default RE: Throttled .010's

vauxhall,

I don't know I just don't get it I guess. He would not answer anything himself. He said he was waiting to get reports from Randy and Andy but he has had a website up and was running ads in mags years ago!?!?!? Was he waiting to get reports from Andy and Randy then...no I don't think so.

Later,
Tim
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Old 10-14-2004, 03:26 AM
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Default RE: Throttled .010's

Tim,

ALL the secrets of THERMAL EXHAUST THROTTLING that I so carefully guarded for years to protect my patent rights are in the "1/8A" ENGINE MANUAL & HANDBOOK that comes with the .010 "R/C" ENGINE. The "1/8A" ENGINE MANUAL includes my treatise on the theory of THERMAL EXHAUST THROTTLING. Obviously the "secrets" in my treatise are now no longer secrets, since many "1/8A" MICRO R/C Modelers already have the "1/8A" ENGINE MANUAL & HANDBOOK and are reading and studying my treatise.

You said in post: #10 you could not see, by studying my patent, why the PET is any different from a conventional throttle sleeve (Ace, Cox, etc.), other than it is "...made from brass sheet and a bucket load of screws and bolts." The PET is NOT "...just a throttle sleeve...."!! A conventional throttle sleeve is ONLY a ROTARY EXHAUST VALVE that controls the engine's exhaust to vary the engine's rpm. The PET is BOTH a ROTARY EXHAUST VALVE AND A FULLY ADJUSTABLE RECIPROCATING EXHAUST VALVE (with rectilinear motion) that enhances idle, midrange and full speed rpm performance. A conventional throttle sleeve has two parts: a metal sleeve with an adjustable spring steel snap ring actuating arm. The PET has thirty-four parts, but only weighs two (2!) grams -- even though it is BOTH a throttle and progressive muffler. The "bucket load" of parts you referred to constitutes the most advanced exhaust throttle design we modelers have ever had for a COX engine -- with unparalleled performance!!

Tim,

Rather than making a "knee jerk" verbal response to what you have just read -- that it is nothing more than "hyped BS" -- why don't you take an open-minded approach to this new patented THERMAL EXHAUST THROTTLING technology. At the rate we are shipping MICRO-FLITE/COX TD .010 ā€œR/Cā€ ENGINES, it will not be that long before you actually see the performance of the .010 "R/C" ENGINE first hand! On that day I believe you will become another believer in THERMAL EXHAUST THROTTLING, just like George Maddad M.D. (SERCEFLYER), when the .010 R/C engine was demonstrated for him last summer. Afterwards, he reported to the RCU FORUM. He described the .010 "R/C" ENGINE as an amazing awesome product!

Roger
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Old 10-14-2004, 09:29 PM
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Default RE: Throttled .010's

Roger,
Being that I have editor staus here on RCU, and being that I have an unbiased opinion, how about sending me one of those little buggers for a thorough real world test and review?
No joke, just the facts....seriously.

Jetts
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Old 10-16-2004, 03:13 AM
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Default RE: Throttled .010's

Tim,

As you know from my past postings, I have always used technical language rather than non-technical language to describe MICRO-FLITE'S Proportional Exhaust Throttle (PET). I am going to continue this practice, not only for greater accuracy, but also to avoid some gross misunderstandings that will most likely occur if I resort to non-technical language to describe the PET that is more sophisticated in its design and working actions than that of a conventional throttle sleeve. Hopefully, we can eventually overcome the problem found in past postings wherein technical language has been misinterpreted as "hyped BS". Non-technical language can lead you to a false conclusion, as it has in your Post #10, that there is really no working difference between the PET and a conventional two-part throttle sleeve, such as an ACE or COX throttle sleeve, or a three part throttle sleeve, such as Steve Adams' "Throttle Ring". Nothing could be further from the truth!!

Incidentally, Steve's "throttle Ring" has been described as a "new concept" in the November, 2004 issue of MODEL AVIATION. The "throttle Ring" is actually not a new concept, but a modern version of Carl Vogt's 1960's "1/8A" throttle sold by ACE R/C. In 1966 the late, great Howard McEntee described the "1/8A" Vogt throttle as "...two precision-turned aluminum half circles, and a wire spring clip to hold them in place on the cylinder." Obviously, Steve's "Throttle Ring" is the same basic throttle design, which belongs to the public domain.

All the prior art (earlier) throttle sleeve designs mentioned above, have a non-adjustable sleeve. The sleeve is non-adjustable in the sense that you cannot adjust the gap between the inside walls of the throttle sleeve and the outside wall of the cylinder. How tight a fit you will have with a new sleeve/cylinder is determined by the LUCK OF THE DRAW (purely by chance!). For this reason, Milton Dickey has advised 1/2A modelers to purchase as many used throttle sleeves as possible and mix-and-match them to cylinders to get a tight fitting sleeve. However, normal sleeve/cylinder wear will eventually increase the width of the gap, until you have EXCESSIVE UNCONTROLLABLE "BLOWBY", resulting in high idle rpm. Even a brand new sleeve/cylinder can have this problem, as I have found to be the case with three part throttle sleeves for the COX TEE DEE .010 ENGINE!

To get a patent I had to prove to the PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE (PTO) that the PET was a considerable improvement over the prior art throttle sleeve designs that were mentioned above. The patent examiner stated in writing that one of the most important reasons for issuing a patent for MICRO-FLITE'S patent pending THERMAL EXHAUST THROTTLE was that I had finally solved the problem of EXCESSIVE UNCONTROLLABLE "BLOWBY" by incorporating in my throttle design fully adjustable brass semisleeves that MECHANICALLY and THERMICALLY control the gap between the inside walls of the throttle sleeve and the outside wall of the cylinder, resulting in an amazingly low idle for a "1/8A" engine -- much lower than anything ever thought possible!

The PET is unique in that it has ROTARY and RECIPROCATING throttle exhaust valves working together simultaneously in perfect harmony to produce the highest performance ever obtained with a throttled COX TEE DEE .010 ENGINE! GOOD NEWS FOR "1/8A" MICRO R/C MODELERS!!!!

Roger
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Old 10-16-2004, 04:25 AM
  #21  
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Default RE: Throttled .010's

Hi Jetts,

Thank you for your offer to review the MICRO-FLITE/COX TD .010 "R/C" ENGINE for the RCU FORUM. However, we have received PM from RCUniverse with another suggestion on how to demonstrate the performace of the .010 "R/C" ENGINE. We will have to make a decision on which course of action to take. In the meantime, we now are very busy filling orders for the .010 "R/C" engines. I don't know how credible Randy Randolph is with the RCUniverse members, but he sure is credible with his SMALL TALK readers in FLYING MODELS! Randy has definitely established the credibility of MICRO-FLITE with his SMALL TALK readers!!

RCU FORUM members have been informed about the MICRO-FLITE/COX TD .010 "R/C" ENGINE and the credibility of MICRO-FLITE'S advertising claims. MartialArtist and SERCEFLYER posted on the older micro-flite thread on the RCU FORUM that the .010 "R/C" ENGINE is just as great as MICRO-FLITE has claimed in its advertising -- even though MICRO-FLITE advertising claims might sound fantastic to some incredulous RCUniverse members. Nevertheless, based on MartialArtist and SERCEFLYER posts on the RCU FORUM that the .010 "R/C" ENGINE has amazing awesome performance, we are sure to have a whole lot of happy SMALL TALK readers, when they get their .010 "R/C" ENGINES and start an exciting new pioneering trend in MICRO R/C!

Later,

Roger
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Old 10-16-2004, 05:26 AM
  #22  
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Default RE: Throttled .010's

Roger,
looked over your website completely. What appears to be missing are the "technical" aspects. Weight, dimensions, power output, recommended prop sizes, minimum RPM, recommended model weight, horsepower, thrust, etc. I don't care all that much how or why the "PET" aspect works, but I can't go designing a model around it without some info. So, yes, some "technical" information would be appreciated.
Jax
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Old 10-16-2004, 08:22 AM
  #23  
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Default RE: Throttled .010's

Hey,
Ya can't kick a guy fer' tryin'!
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Old 10-16-2004, 09:50 AM
  #24  
MR Flyer57
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Default RE: Throttled .010's

Hello Roger,

I have tried to just read the posts and stay silent, but it seems some issues are not getting resolved. I for one would like to put the RPM issue to bed and get the information that has been missing from the start.

Please Roger, take three of your engines that are sporting the pet feature and fire them up. Put a tach at the busy end and take readings while they are at idle and then again when they are at full throttle. Put these numbers on a piece of paper and post them as a reply to this post.

This should only take about 10 minutes and in reality you probably have already thought of this little test and have the numbers handy.

I, like so many others here are not really that interested in the how or why it works, or who is has written glowing words about it. I would like a small but important bit of information from you, and that is the tach readings.

This is an open invitation for you, or anyone else that is in possession of one of your pet equipped engines to send in the specs. MartialArtist and SERCEFLYER, I would be intrested in the same information from you.

I am interested in your response, but would ask that you do not respond if you cannot/will not include the RPM information that this post requests.

Thank you
MR Flyer57
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Old 10-16-2004, 10:10 AM
  #25  
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Default RE: Throttled .010's

[As you know from my past postings, I have always used technical language rather than non-technical language to describe MICRO-FLITE'S Proportional Exhaust Throttle]-Roger


Roger, much of the problem is not whether your words have been technical or non-technical, but that there have been so many of them.

Take MR Flyer57's advice and publish the results WITHOUT ANY EXCESS VERBIAGE. Example:


Engine idle RPM max RPM

#1 xxxx xxxx

#2 xxxx xxxx

#3 xxxx xxxx

NO MORE INFORMATION IS NEEDED NOR DESIRED.

jess
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