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Micro-Flite. What's the Beef?

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Old 10-16-2004, 06:47 PM
  #1  
tango28charlie
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Default Micro-Flite. What's the Beef?

What's the beef that lots of people here have with Roger from Micro-Flite? Has he actually screwed anybody or ripped anybody off by not sending people product that they have ordered? Are his products bad? Or does it just twist people up that he is using the forum to advertise? I was thinking about buying one of his throttled TD .010 engines.
Charlie
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Old 10-16-2004, 07:03 PM
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Default RE: Micro-Flite. What's the Beef?

The beef is simple, he won't furnish us with any performance data to go along with the exhaustive hyperbole. If you would buy one of his engines with out knowing what the high / low rpm figures are then you have "easier" money than I do. After the question was asked quite some time ago about what the engine could actually do, the silence has been deafening.
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Old 10-16-2004, 07:35 PM
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Default RE: Micro-Flite. What's the Beef?

Read this thread and decide for yourself.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_19..._1/key_/tm.htm
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Old 10-16-2004, 07:47 PM
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Tim Wiltse-RCU
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Default RE: Micro-Flite. What's the Beef?

Charlie,

It's like this I love anything to do with 1/2a RC. Anything new in this market gets my eye! Micro-Flite has ran ads in the models mags for a long time. About every couple of months someone would brimg up the topic. But after all of the ads no ever know of anyone getting a throttle. Lots of talk of returned emails, no answers to emails etc. He comes here to RCU to talk about this product whick I have no problem with since he was asked to give info. Here is a number of members here that offer 1/2a products or services. BUT...ok heres the but once he was asked about specs on the throttle all we would get was post after post after post of rehashed quotes and the word "patent" at least 5 times per post. Some straight questions were asked like rpm range. All he would say was it offers "park on runway idle" as both you and I know that means very little. At one point he even said that you have to send in writing what you want performance wise from the engine and then Micro Flite would decide whether or not to sell you an engine...and that is WHAT they said..no joke. Many people asked when the throttles were ready to ship and he couldn't even answer that simple question. One of the RCU members was waiting by the phone for Micro Flite to call so he could place an order since there was no way to get ahold of anyone at Micro Flite but he never called. Alot of the messages from the first thread have been edited you should make note of. In the end he said that he was waiting for some others to post reports first. One of those fellows was recovering from a heart problem! Which by the way I hope Andy is getting better.

That's the jist of it I guess. RCU is a great place to learn and share info on 1/2a. I will say that this topic has really rubbed me the wrong way and brought out the worse of me . It's just the way Micro Flite acts. Like I have said before the throttle is most likely a great product but after all of this there won't be one in my shop.

Later,
Tim
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Old 10-16-2004, 09:00 PM
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Default RE: Micro-Flite. What's the Beef?

Tango's trollin ya'll, he already knows about the beef if he knows anything, its because he's read the threads.......Rog
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Old 10-16-2004, 09:06 PM
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Default RE: Micro-Flite. What's the Beef?

ORIGINAL: Bipe Flyer

Read this thread and decide for yourself.
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_19..._1/key_/tm.htm
Also read the thread on .010 throttles.

To prepare yourself for this volume of reading, first read the collected works of James Mitchner followed by volumes A-W of the Encyclopedia Britannica.

jess
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Old 10-16-2004, 10:34 PM
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Default RE: Micro-Flite. What's the Beef?

No Rog, I'm not trolling. I normally fly larger airplanes and just want to try out a small plane for something different, and quite frankly I don't know all the ins and outs of the small airplane world. Roger from Micro-Flite sent me a PM about his .010 and it sounded pretty good, but I have seen that any time anything about him or his engines comes up on this forum, everybody gets p*ssed off. I was just trying to find out if he's likely to steal my money and not send me the engine if I try ordering one from him. Now after reading this thread and the other one I'm leaning away from ordering one though.
Charlie
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Old 10-16-2004, 11:22 PM
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Default RE: Micro-Flite. What's the Beef?

I think the ability to throttle a small engine is highly over rated. The models' speed difference throughout the usable rpm range doesn't [for me] justify the compromised high speed performance, and having landing gear on a 1/2A plane does nothing but add to mediocre performance also. I guess if all you are after is something that just flubs around with "scale like" performance , then 1/8th A with throttle is OK, but I would rather just watch paint dry.
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Old 10-17-2004, 01:52 AM
  #9  
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Default RE: Micro-Flite. What's the Beef?

The beef is one word, R-E-S-P-E-C-T. Dont come here with a lack of it.

And pigg, "watch paint dry"- seriously !!!!!

But i guess you and XFIST feel the need, the need for speed

Chris
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Old 10-17-2004, 03:17 AM
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Default RE: Micro-Flite. What's the Beef?

Okay Tango, if you want to try out smaller planes, try an .049 plan...The big "beef" was that they have been advertising this miracle engine for 2 years in magazines....no go, no show, no word, just dissapointment...then he "Roger" pops up with every excuse in the book because some guy was promised first rights to the review, but now that thats over with he is still dodgeing everyones questions about performance..re read them, all everyone wants to know is bottom and top RPM, and this guy still diverts every question he is asked...I dont want to be referred to another site, I want an answer here because it is asked here...So Roger if you read this,, and 1/2 a dozen others have asked? what is the low and high rpm of the "thing" that you make ,, in numbers please, not park on runway or screamin.. will it idle down to 800 rpm?, does it zoom to 40,000 rpm..??
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Old 10-17-2004, 05:26 AM
  #11  
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Default RE: Micro-Flite. What's the Beef?

MICRO-FLITE/COX TD .010 "R/C" ENGINE SPECIFICATIONS & PERFORMANCE DATA

*DYNAMIC SPEED RANGE

IDLE: 6,000-8,000 rpm...solid and reliable! (lowest idle ever obtained with a "1/8A" throttle!)

FULL SPEED: 30,000-32,000 rpm

*THROTTLE RESPONSE: instantaneous! (Transition from idle to full speed is excellent...vastly superior to a carburetor throttle!)

*MIDRANGE RPM: smooth and fully variable rpm from idle to full speed (widest speed range ever obtained with a "1/8A" throttle!)

*NEEDLE VALVE SETTING: broad, steady and reliable

*FUEL CONSUMPTION: 1.5g/.05 oz. per minute on high throttle/full power...considerably longer on cruise!

*EASE OF STARTING: EXCELLENT! Engine can be started with ONE (1) engagement of spring starter after broken-in!

*ENGINE RELIABILITY: EXCELLENT!

*ENGINE LIFE: EXCELLENT, when MICRO-GLOW FUEL is used (25% lubrication) and MICRO-CLEAN is used to devarnish cylinder.

*ENGINE NOISE LEVEL: LOW!! Incredibly small .010 cu. in. engine displacement with PET (throttle/muffler) makes engine suitable for backyard R/C!

*ENGINE/THROTTLE WEIGHT: 14g/1/2 oz. (throttle weight: 2g/.07 oz.)

NOTE:

1. A TNC Electronics Sensi-Tach Model PT10S with an "accuracy to better than 1 rpm" was used to do rpm readings.

2. A COX gray competition propeller (3"D x 1.25"P) and MICRO-GLOW FUEL (25% lubrication and 35% nitromethane) were used, when taking tachometer readings.

3. The above data only begins a discussion, on the RCU FORUM, of the rpm performance of the MICRO-FLITE/COX TD .010 "R/C" ENGINE! More detailed rpm performance data will be provided in future posts.

4. A COX TEE DEE .049 ENGINE with an Ace throttle sleeve would have to idle at 2,500-3,300 rpm to have similar performance to a COX TEE DEE .010 ENGINE with a PET. As you know a COX .049 with an Ace throttle sleeve idles around 6,000 rpm, so the .010 "R/C" ENGINE considerably outperforms anything that we have ever seen in exhaust throttles for COX engines. (However, to understand this statement you must take into consideration PROPELLER PITCH along with idle rpm!!) Your lightest multi-channel "1/8A" MICRO R/C models ought to sit dead still on a typical paved runway with the PET'S very low idle rpm. This is a true first for a "1/8A" throttle!!

5. Andy Woitowicz's experiments with throttling the COX TEE DEE .010 ENGINE proved that exhaust throttling is superior to carburetor throttling for COX engines. Dave Robelen's home-made carburetor throttle for the COX TEE DEE .010 ENGINE caused the engine to flame out at 14,000 rpm, which is more evidence to support Andy's claim. Andy also said that carburetor throttling caused the COX TEE DEE .010 engine to easily flame out, when quickly changing throttle settings from low throttle to high throttle. The PET has none of these drawbacks!!

Roger
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Old 10-17-2004, 08:38 AM
  #12  
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Default RE: Micro-Flite. What's the Beef?

ORIGINAL: tango28charlie

but I have seen that any time anything about him or his engines comes up on this forum, everybody gets p*ssed off.
No offence Tango but your wrong. If you re read the origional thread, all the initial coorispondence in by members was polite and respectfull reguarding microflight. It was only when Roger started posting that things went aray. Roger came into this fourm, he was coy, evasive and wouldn't answer simple questions directly (or at all). When a couple of HIGHLY respected members (Andrew Coholic and Tim Wilste) started holding his feet to the fire, Roger went on some sort of egomanial rant, was highly disrespectfull to many members, while at all times not answering simple questions reguarding the magical throttle. Personaly I would not do business with the man and encourage others to do the same.

My opinon

Darren
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Old 10-17-2004, 11:27 AM
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Default RE: Micro-Flite. What's the Beef?

First there was SOCRATES, then there was PLATO, then there was BUZZARDS FLY!
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Old 10-17-2004, 12:20 PM
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Default RE: Micro-Flite. What's the Beef?

For the past two and a half years, this place has been my haven away from any arguements, any ill-will, etc - just a cool place to hang out with the boys and share and gather usefull info about small planes. Sure, we have had a few guys come here and raise some hell for a short time but then it was back to normal. I feel bad for any new guys who happened to join in around the time the 010 crap was raging, it certainly doesnt represent the general attitude of the site and this forum.

As for me, if I were just starting off into small planes I wouldnt try an 010 first, I would stick to at least an 049, maybe an 020. It seems as you get smaller the planes are less forgiving (in many ways) especially for the less experienced modeler/flyer. Thats JMO I am sure some guys could go from .40 size to flying and building an .010 sport plane just fine.

For the record, Tango28charlie, if you do happen to re read the 010 threads, you can see many of us had actually had positive things to say (I for one suggested more than once that I thought the engine was probably a great little runner) but after the way things unfolded, well, it kinda left a bitter taste in more than a few mouths.... and thats a hard thing to fix unfortunately.

AJC
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Old 10-17-2004, 01:05 PM
  #15  
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Default RE: Micro-Flite. What's the Beef?

Something that rubbed me the wrong way was the never ending sales pitch. Many of us on this forums sell engines, plans, software, tools etc., but we only reply to specific questions about the product and don't launch into a big product promotion spiel.

I sort of lost interest in the group and wasn't posting as often since the Micro-Flight debacle and only recently started checking the group again every day. Unfortunately here it is again. People say "just ignore those posts", but the whole idea of a moderated group is to keep if friendly so that you don't have to pick through the inflammatory or objectionable material. I don't know what, if anything, the moderators can do about this, but I would like to see the group return to being a friendly place to exchange ideas.
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Old 10-17-2004, 01:14 PM
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Default RE: Micro-Flite. What's the Beef?

Bipe,

I know I have said it before but I'll say it again. I am tired of the nonsense too and I promise not to post anymore about anything regarding this Micro-Nonsense. If anyone needs my input I'll just PM them.

LAter,
Tim
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Old 10-17-2004, 01:17 PM
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Default RE: Micro-Flite. What's the Beef?

I'd like to thank Roger for posting this information since it hasn't been noticed so far.

Guys, this topic has been beaten to death and I'd like to see us move on. Let's leave the past threads to speak for themselves rather than re-hash all this. Roger has finally come through with some information and while I share your feelings of past frustration it's here now. Roger has said that he's ready to ship as soon as orders come in and there has been nothing to indicate otherwise and some that have supported him as an honorable fellow.

I'm looking forward to hearing about some users findings and seeing some cute and interesting models using the latest parkflyer gear and one of these little mills. Now if only I had a paved runway to fly something like that from....

ORIGINAL: MICRO-FLITE-RCU

MICRO-FLITE/COX TD .010 "R/C" ENGINE SPECIFICATIONS & PERFORMANCE DATA

*DYNAMIC SPEED RANGE

IDLE: 6,000-8,000 rpm...solid and reliable! (lowest idle ever obtained with a "1/8A" throttle!)

FULL SPEED: 30,000-32,000 rpm

*THROTTLE RESPONSE: instantaneous! (Transition from idle to full speed is excellent...vastly superior to a carburetor throttle!)

*MIDRANGE RPM: smooth and fully variable rpm from idle to full speed (widest speed range ever obtained with a "1/8A" throttle!)

*NEEDLE VALVE SETTING: broad, steady and reliable

*FUEL CONSUMPTION: 1.5g/.05 oz. per minute on high throttle/full power...considerably longer on cruise!

*EASE OF STARTING: EXCELLENT! Engine can be started with ONE (1) engagement of spring starter after broken-in!

*ENGINE RELIABILITY: EXCELLENT!

*ENGINE LIFE: EXCELLENT, when MICRO-GLOW FUEL is used (25% lubrication) and MICRO-CLEAN is used to devarnish cylinder.

*ENGINE NOISE LEVEL: LOW!! Incredibly small .010 cu. in. engine displacement with PET (throttle/muffler) makes engine suitable for backyard R/C!

*ENGINE/THROTTLE WEIGHT: 14g/1/2 oz. (throttle weight: 2g/.07 oz.)

NOTE:

1. A TNC Electronics Sensi-Tach Model PT10S with an "accuracy to better than 1 rpm" was used to do rpm readings.

2. A COX gray competition propeller (3"D x 1.25"P) and MICRO-GLOW FUEL (25% lubrication and 35% nitromethane) were used, when taking tachometer readings.

3. The above data only begins a discussion, on the RCU FORUM, of the rpm performance of the MICRO-FLITE/COX TD .010 "R/C" ENGINE! More detailed rpm performance data will be provided in future posts.

4. A COX TEE DEE .049 ENGINE with an Ace throttle sleeve would have to idle at 2,500-3,300 rpm to have similar performance to a COX TEE DEE .010 ENGINE with a PET. As you know a COX .049 with an Ace throttle sleeve idles around 6,000 rpm, so the .010 "R/C" ENGINE considerably outperforms anything that we have ever seen in exhaust throttles for COX engines. (However, to understand this statement you must take into consideration PROPELLER PITCH along with idle rpm!!) Your lightest multi-channel "1/8A" MICRO R/C models ought to sit dead still on a typical paved runway with the PET'S very low idle rpm. This is a true first for a "1/8A" throttle!!

5. Andy Woitowicz's experiments with throttling the COX TEE DEE .010 ENGINE proved that exhaust throttling is superior to carburetor throttling for COX engines. Dave Robelen's home-made carburetor throttle for the COX TEE DEE .010 ENGINE caused the engine to flame out at 14,000 rpm, which is more evidence to support Andy's claim. Andy also said that carburetor throttling caused the COX TEE DEE .010 engine to easily flame out, when quickly changing throttle settings from low throttle to high throttle. The PET has none of these drawbacks!!

Roger
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Old 10-18-2004, 07:25 AM
  #18  
MR Flyer57
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Default RE: Micro-Flite. What's the Beef?

The RPM data has been produced, and I for one am longing for a time when we were discussing positive issues.

I am sorry for the whole group. This could have turned out much differently, with only an engine sent to ajcoholic to review (he was willing to pay full price), and full data disclosure from the start.


It has been a journey, but for me this thread is over.

Thank you Roger for the needed data. I'm sure we will someday get posts of the engine in a plane.

I love the smaller planes, and will be interested in all aspects including that bit of news.

NOW on to the new.

MR Flyer57
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Old 10-19-2004, 04:35 AM
  #19  
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Default RE: Micro-Flite. What's the Beef?

Bruce,

In my VERY FIRST post No.35 on the www.micro-flite.com thread, I clearly indicated that I had promised the SCOOP on the MICRO-FLITE/COX TD .010 "R/C" ENGINE to Randy Randolph. He was to be the FIRST to report on the performance of the MICRO-FLITE/COX TD .010 "R/C" ENGINE, in his SMALL TALK column, in the November, 2004 issue of FLYING MODELS. I also had promised Andy Woitowicz that he would be the FIRST to report to the RCU FORUM on the performance of the .010 "R/C" ENGINE. Even when under considerable peer pressure on the RCU FORUM to break my promises to Randy and Andy and report FIRST, or let Andrew Coholic report FIRST on the performance of the .010 "R/C" ENGINE, I kept my word to Randy and Andy and allowed them to report FIRST. It was the only HONORABLE thing to do!

I agree with you! We all have heard both sides of this argument too many times. It now is time to end the "re-hash" and move on! According to the RCUniverse this is suppose to be an "online friendly community"! If the community truly is what it claims to be, then WE should post friendly thoughts and keep any unfriendly thoughts to ourselves -- and be wise enough to know the difference.

Roger
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Old 10-19-2004, 04:39 AM
  #20  
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Default RE: Micro-Flite. What's the Beef?

Thank you Andrew! It is as you believe "...a great little runner". It will bring fun and enjoyment to the world's "1/8A" MICRO R/C modelers, for many years to come.

Roger
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