A Bit Of Cox Nostalgia On The Tee Dee .010
11-09-2004, 09:21 PM
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RE: A Bit Of Cox Nostalgia On The Tee Dee .010
Bob HH,
You started this thread with a copy of the Peter Chinn article from a 1961 MAN. This was the first page of the article, and the article was continued on page 46. I though somone else might notice and ask you to post it, but no one has yet. I am just SURE there is some pearl of wisdom in those last pages...
So Bob, would you please scan and post the rest of the article?
The Cox Tee Dee .010 has a special place in my heart. My father gave me one for my 7th birthday in 1962. You will just have to immagine its fate - too sad to mention here. A couple years ago, I bought one (NIB in the bubble style pack of course) on ebay for cheap, then found another at a swap meet even cheaper, then another and another, and I haven't even run one of them yet!
Arlen
You started this thread with a copy of the Peter Chinn article from a 1961 MAN. This was the first page of the article, and the article was continued on page 46. I though somone else might notice and ask you to post it, but no one has yet. I am just SURE there is some pearl of wisdom in those last pages...
So Bob, would you please scan and post the rest of the article?
The Cox Tee Dee .010 has a special place in my heart. My father gave me one for my 7th birthday in 1962. You will just have to immagine its fate - too sad to mention here. A couple years ago, I bought one (NIB in the bubble style pack of course) on ebay for cheap, then found another at a swap meet even cheaper, then another and another, and I haven't even run one of them yet!
Arlen
11-09-2004, 09:41 PM
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RE: A Bit Of Cox Nostalgia On The Tee Dee .010
Hi Arlen... You should run at least one of them.... You might like the screeeeeeeeem. Or are you waiting for your 50th for that treat.
11-09-2004, 09:52 PM
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RE: A Bit Of Cox Nostalgia On The Tee Dee .010
Yeah, I bought a used black and silver one the other day - thought I should sort of ease into the .010 thing slowly...
Now all I need is some of that "red can" Cox Racing Fuel!
Arlen
Now all I need is some of that "red can" Cox Racing Fuel!
Arlen
11-09-2004, 11:56 PM
#54
RE: A Bit Of Cox Nostalgia On The Tee Dee .010
Arlen, try the 1/2A All The Way Site. http://groups.msn.com/12Aalltheway
I posted the complete article plus one on the Pee Wee .020. The rest of the guys have posted some great info there also. Give it a try!
Bob Harris
Early RC Models
www.earlyrcmodels.com
I posted the complete article plus one on the Pee Wee .020. The rest of the guys have posted some great info there also. Give it a try!
Bob Harris
Early RC Models
www.earlyrcmodels.com
12-15-2004, 01:51 PM
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RE: A Bit Of Cox Nostalgia On The Tee Dee .010
I was present when a friend ran one of Micro Flight's throttled .010 engines. It was the best performing little gem I'd EVER seen! With RPM's in the high 29,000 and touching the 30,000 a couple of times and comming down to 5,000 also. The fuel (also available from him) was top notch and, using only castor oil, sealed the sleeve well. I understand why you would blow your horn, but please refrain in the future.
12-17-2004, 10:37 AM
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RE: A Bit Of Cox Nostalgia On The Tee Dee .010
Yes, the MF throttle works, and in a unique way. Too bad that Roger is mishandling the entire enterprise. I learned a lot about myself from all of this.
Just for the interest of all, pictured are my attempts at throttling the TD .010. I tried using the Arlton Brothers patented method, (with permission) and also using a barrel type baffle. Both worked quite well. I did find a lot of variation in the top end, from engine to engine. Not to mention idle figures. Best was 9K up to 26-27K. The idea was to get away from the sleeve type throttle and at the same time direct the exhaust away from the plane somewhat. Another version also used a small muffler but the noise was nearly as loud and too much power was lost. Well, I think its the pitch not the decibels that's most noticeable on this little screamer so a muffler is redundant.
Also shown is a clank tank/mount. I had hoped that these ideas might have commercial possibilities but I'm a tinkerer, not an entrepreneur.
The last pic shows a TD .020 with an airbleed throttle coupled to a muffler baffle arrangement. The muffler on this one was originally installed on the .010. Not necessary really on the .010 but was found useful on the .020. Not too much power loss and noise WAS reduced nicely.
Just for the interest of all, pictured are my attempts at throttling the TD .010. I tried using the Arlton Brothers patented method, (with permission) and also using a barrel type baffle. Both worked quite well. I did find a lot of variation in the top end, from engine to engine. Not to mention idle figures. Best was 9K up to 26-27K. The idea was to get away from the sleeve type throttle and at the same time direct the exhaust away from the plane somewhat. Another version also used a small muffler but the noise was nearly as loud and too much power was lost. Well, I think its the pitch not the decibels that's most noticeable on this little screamer so a muffler is redundant.
Also shown is a clank tank/mount. I had hoped that these ideas might have commercial possibilities but I'm a tinkerer, not an entrepreneur.
The last pic shows a TD .020 with an airbleed throttle coupled to a muffler baffle arrangement. The muffler on this one was originally installed on the .010. Not necessary really on the .010 but was found useful on the .020. Not too much power loss and noise WAS reduced nicely.
12-17-2004, 12:04 PM
#57
12-17-2004, 05:12 PM
#61
RE: A Bit Of Cox Nostalgia On The Tee Dee .010
That .010 IS a powerhouse. I bought one in 1963 and put it in a Top Flite Rascal 27 with an F&M Pioneer reciever and a citizenship SN escapement. As fast as I could handle back then, and great climb.. In fact, on the last flight, I realized too late that I had forgotten to rewind the escapement rubber, and the plane climbed out of sight.
I have one of the newer engines on an old Enterprise FF bipe. The plans show the plane flying on an old Spitzy 045. With the .010, the plane is a corkscrew under power, even running rich with the prop on backwards. I've seen this plane fly with the Pee Wee 020, with far less trouble.
I have one of the newer engines on an old Enterprise FF bipe. The plans show the plane flying on an old Spitzy 045. With the .010, the plane is a corkscrew under power, even running rich with the prop on backwards. I've seen this plane fly with the Pee Wee 020, with far less trouble.
12-17-2004, 09:33 PM
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RE: A Bit Of Cox Nostalgia On The Tee Dee .010
Andy,
It's nice to see you posting again. I trust you must be feeling better! Those are some real neat looking project engines you have posted. I saw them just yesterday over on the 1/2a engine collectors site but didn't have time to ask you about them there.
Take care,
Tim
It's nice to see you posting again. I trust you must be feeling better! Those are some real neat looking project engines you have posted. I saw them just yesterday over on the 1/2a engine collectors site but didn't have time to ask you about them there.
Take care,
Tim
12-18-2004, 12:32 AM
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RE: A Bit Of Cox Nostalgia On The Tee Dee .010
Good to hear from you Andy!! 
Hope your health has improved! The pictures of your throttle experiments along with your commentary are very interesting.
Roger [sm=sunsmiley.gif]
www.micro-flite.com
Hope your health has improved! The pictures of your throttle experiments along with your commentary are very interesting.
Roger [sm=sunsmiley.gif]
www.micro-flite.com
12-18-2004, 07:30 PM
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RE: A Bit Of Cox Nostalgia On The Tee Dee .010
Thanks to all for the good wishes. Yeah, its been a strange year for me. But, things are improving and I've had a progressively busy fall and winter and am starting to catch up.
Quite a few years ago, some of you may recall an ad in RCM from an outfit called Little Gem products. They offered a tiny throttle for the TD .010. Not an exhaust throttle but an intake throttle and it came with an adjustable airbleed. That one was donated to me by someone as I never could get ahold of the company. It was tried and really didn't do more than take the engine down to 18K or so. A throttle it was but not all that effective.
Then I stumbled on to some neat little throttles made by VA for some of their small diesel engines. These were generously donated to me by Dave Larkin of Canadian diesel fame. Quite a bit better made and after having installed an adjustable airbleed, it was somewhat more effective at throttling but while the idle would hold, transition was mediocre at best. While I managed to get a TD .049 throttling well with a conventional throttle, much mechanical gymnastics were required to accomplish what I wanted.
Pictured on the right is the Little Gem throttle and on the left is the VA unit adapted to suit.
There's something unique to the Cox series of engines that allows them to throttle effectively at the exhaust. Today, we have three designs that do that satisfactorily, two of them commercially available. The important thing, I think, is that now we have very small radios and choices in throttles for that little marvel, the TD .010. Now we can get our creative juices steamed up and make something to take advantage of what we have available to us. Full house .010 pattern ship? Why not. Imagine Quique Somenzini putting one through its paces. Imagine his surprise at how well it flies.
Quite a few years ago, some of you may recall an ad in RCM from an outfit called Little Gem products. They offered a tiny throttle for the TD .010. Not an exhaust throttle but an intake throttle and it came with an adjustable airbleed. That one was donated to me by someone as I never could get ahold of the company. It was tried and really didn't do more than take the engine down to 18K or so. A throttle it was but not all that effective.
Then I stumbled on to some neat little throttles made by VA for some of their small diesel engines. These were generously donated to me by Dave Larkin of Canadian diesel fame. Quite a bit better made and after having installed an adjustable airbleed, it was somewhat more effective at throttling but while the idle would hold, transition was mediocre at best. While I managed to get a TD .049 throttling well with a conventional throttle, much mechanical gymnastics were required to accomplish what I wanted.
Pictured on the right is the Little Gem throttle and on the left is the VA unit adapted to suit.
There's something unique to the Cox series of engines that allows them to throttle effectively at the exhaust. Today, we have three designs that do that satisfactorily, two of them commercially available. The important thing, I think, is that now we have very small radios and choices in throttles for that little marvel, the TD .010. Now we can get our creative juices steamed up and make something to take advantage of what we have available to us. Full house .010 pattern ship? Why not. Imagine Quique Somenzini putting one through its paces. Imagine his surprise at how well it flies.
12-18-2004, 08:12 PM
#67
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RE: A Bit Of Cox Nostalgia On The Tee Dee .010
Hey, J-Man, many thanks.
Yes, but actually, Tom had introduced me to diesel combustion several years ago by way of our project to install the two needle Jets throttle on to an old Indian made Mills replica. However, I never dared run it and left that up to Tom. The fellow that gave me the courage to even flip the prop on compression ignition was Raj Massilamoni of Singapore. After doing a few throttle projects for him, he insisted that I take the plunge and run one of his conversions before sending it back. Well, I warned him and I proceeded to break the crank pin on his Mills replica. Not to worry, Ed Carlson of Carlson Imports had a replacement and I tried again. This time, I at least knew what NOT to do and finally got that strange little machine going. That did it, I was hooked. There's something magical and intriguing about diesel engines. Since then, I've become a real convert and now, it could very well be my favourite way to fly.
And now that you've reminded me, I'll be making a diesel head for one of my .010s. What I've discovered is that if an engine runs and throttles well on glow, it'll do the same as a diesel. On the bench now is a Texaco diesel conversion using an exhaust throttle. A 10 X 4 on an .049?? Gads, what have we wrought?
Meanwhile, pictured is an .061 and an .074 conversion of my own design. Both run well on an 8 X 4 Tornado prop but only the .074 has flown (extensively). The .061 is more comfortable with a 7 X 4 but it does go with the 8. Interestingly, tilting the test bench back simulating a climb caused a flame out even at full bore. This was cured by installing some exhaust tubing and this resulted in better muffler pressure to the tank and better fuel draw. The neat thing is that despite the huge prop and exhasut tubing, the engine does not overheat. Well, diesels love heat and besides, all them cooling fins on Norvels sure helps.
Yes, but actually, Tom had introduced me to diesel combustion several years ago by way of our project to install the two needle Jets throttle on to an old Indian made Mills replica. However, I never dared run it and left that up to Tom. The fellow that gave me the courage to even flip the prop on compression ignition was Raj Massilamoni of Singapore. After doing a few throttle projects for him, he insisted that I take the plunge and run one of his conversions before sending it back. Well, I warned him and I proceeded to break the crank pin on his Mills replica. Not to worry, Ed Carlson of Carlson Imports had a replacement and I tried again. This time, I at least knew what NOT to do and finally got that strange little machine going. That did it, I was hooked. There's something magical and intriguing about diesel engines. Since then, I've become a real convert and now, it could very well be my favourite way to fly.
And now that you've reminded me, I'll be making a diesel head for one of my .010s. What I've discovered is that if an engine runs and throttles well on glow, it'll do the same as a diesel. On the bench now is a Texaco diesel conversion using an exhaust throttle. A 10 X 4 on an .049?? Gads, what have we wrought?
Meanwhile, pictured is an .061 and an .074 conversion of my own design. Both run well on an 8 X 4 Tornado prop but only the .074 has flown (extensively). The .061 is more comfortable with a 7 X 4 but it does go with the 8. Interestingly, tilting the test bench back simulating a climb caused a flame out even at full bore. This was cured by installing some exhaust tubing and this resulted in better muffler pressure to the tank and better fuel draw. The neat thing is that despite the huge prop and exhasut tubing, the engine does not overheat. Well, diesels love heat and besides, all them cooling fins on Norvels sure helps.
09-07-2019, 09:14 PM
#68
Some good ole vid rpm results...
Testing new CNC fuel tank Carbon 3x3 Prop / Best Peak 33,107 rpm
More typical 32,138 rpm / 91 mph pitch speed / 3.6oz thrust .058hp / 43.3w /
Tank duration 2.57 mins. due to 35% nitro / 20% oil and 3x3 prop a cut down
4.5x2 to 3.75x2 should squeak out 3.5 mins.
Testing new CNC fuel tank Carbon 3x3 Prop / Best Peak 33,107 rpm
More typical 32,138 rpm / 91 mph pitch speed / 3.6oz thrust .058hp / 43.3w /
Tank duration 2.57 mins. due to 35% nitro / 20% oil and 3x3 prop a cut down
4.5x2 to 3.75x2 should squeak out 3.5 mins.
09-08-2019, 08:42 PM
#69
I've got a couple of those little beasts. One is on an old Enterprise FF Profile bipe. Main problem, even rich with stock prop on backwards, the plane flies like a high speed drill bit. So far, I haven't been able to get a good flight out of it. I guess I need one of those OLD non-Cox .020s, or the Spitzy shown on the plans.
