D Bronk

pics of bottom of fuse

Bipe Flyer

Whoops, I guess I should have told you that the bottom and top sheeting should be 1/16" cross grain.

It would be a good idea to leave the top sheeting until just before you are ready to cover so that you can fit the components, set up the push rods and check everything for balance while you still have easy access.

D Bronk

NO way[:@],Your joking ..Right???[X(]At least I still didn`t put the top of the fuse together.still got the pushrods ,etc. to make..Obviously I`m more of a ,kit Guy,than a,build off plans,Guy.I guess I`ve got the grain running the wrong way down the sides too..[&:]

Bipe Flyer

It's no big deal. It's common on box fuselages to run the grain on the sides lengthwise and the top and bottom crosswise because it is stronger. On something with a rounded fuselage the grain on all the pieces is usually run lengthwise.

It is important that you run the grain vertically on the vertical stab and from port to starboard on the horizontal stab though.

I'm updating the plan to show grain direction.

D Bronk

Well I`ve been thinking about this, a bit, Andrew .I have Z-poxy, and SIG glass, in 1/4 and 1/2 Ounce weights.I could put a piece between each of the formers,easily enough.What do you think? I kind of knew I would run in to some glitches with this,but at least when this all gets together I`ll send you a C.D. with all the pictures, I`ve taken,and you can WEED through them all, and use what you think are good for a manual..I haven`t put all of them in the thread .At least when you get that all together you`ll have instructions for how to build the way you intended.You may have to make some fake parts, to show the correct way, of some of the things, I`ve done wrong

Bipe Flyer

No need to fibreglass, it'll just add weight. It is a deep fuselage, so it should have more than enough strength.

This build is just what is needed to get the plans/instructions up to snuff. It shows the areas that are not obvious to those who are new to scratch building. When drawing plans I guess I make unconscious assumptions.

D Bronk

Okay no glass I don`t mind being the Guinea pig, because eventually, I would like to see the Nephews build this on their own,and with a pictured instruction manual step by step I can`t see why the younger generations, can`t build this with out too much trouble.Tomorow I`ld like your oppinion on what I have in mind for a couple things but I`ll save A LOT OF TYPING by useing pictures So have a good night D.B.

D Bronk

Here`s how I want to make the, control cables.NY-rod tube and stainless braided inner line Brass threadeded rod end with clevis on that.would like to know th throws that will work nicely to please Thanks Dave.B

Bipe Flyer

You could do that, but it'll be a little heavy. I also find the flex cable to be a little flimsy. I prefer to use a piece of wire, about .05" diameter (1.25mm), with Z bends on each end and a V bend for adjustment. You could still use the brass thread and clevis on one end.

Whatever way you decide to do it, make sure that the nyrod is supported every few inches or the control will be very sloppy. You can do this by roughing up the nyrod and gluing it to the formers or even the fuselage sides. I like to leave the nyrod long inside, almost to the front of the wing, until I decide on the final placement of the servos then I cut it to length and make the wire pushrod.

You can also make a pushrod out of a 3/16" stiff balsa stick with wire ends held on with thread and CA.

Cowboy88

Hi I don't know if you guys want the oppion of an old-timer but I'll give it to you anyway... I had flown F/F, C/L, R/C of all sizes for 30+ years and 1/2s have always been my favorites. So your debate about pushrods interest me.

In my years of flying I have found that planes such as this 1/2 Kadet fly well using simpe 3/16" sq. balsa pushrods or nyrod. Steel cables will add a lot of additional weight and prove more fleible in flight than the wood rods. Also, 1/8" round dowl also works well on short runs. If you use steel cable for throttle use the micro cables from Sulivan and solder a small piece of brass tubing to the end to make it fit the inside of the threaded brass clevis end.

I prefere the wood pushrods as they work well, are very light weight, and easy to make. Simply grove the end as suggested in an earlier post and wrap with sewing thread and white glue, carpenters glue, CA, or what ever you like. I've even seen a guy use hot glue on the thread.... But stick with something more managable like white glue...

It has been my experience as well that dowl is heavier and adds little in the way of stiffness to the pushrod.

You can take or leave this information as you wish. Just thought I'd give you my two cents worth. I've been whatching this thread since it's begging and love the to see the folks building litle airplanes like this. I have scratch built long enough to know a winner when I see one and this little plane has all the right lines and areas to be a very nice sport trainer. I can;t wait to hear some of you tell tales about the fun you're going to have with little airplane.


Cowboy88

Bipe Flyer

Thanks for the comments Cowboy88. I agree with what you said. Dowel adds nothing but weight and is often not as stiff as 3/16" balsa. Balsa sticks also save servo gears in the event of a crash.

D Bronk

From my point of view.There`s always more than 1 way to skin a CAT.Cowboy, You`ll be able to see some pictures, and video of the nephews and myself,flying this one ,as soon as I can get the LT trainer together..I welcome all advice.The more pro`s, than cons ,attached to an idea the more likely, I`ll try to use that idea., if possible....What I have on hand here that comes closest to the mentioned,"BEST WAY" .I might as well state what I have on hand first::3/16" square spruce(heavy);1/4" sq. balsa(big),some nice 3/16" plank stock(I`ll have to strip it).. I knew of the stick /wire/ thread, idea, but thought ,it was out dated.Obviosly not!! ..So I won`t use the braid and ny-rod idea..I think I`ll go this route ; strip up a couple 3/16"sq. balsa push rods,Not use the brass threaded ends,use threaded control wire I do have.Make these balsa control rods with Clevises at both ends,except one end of the set-up, the clevis will be adjustable,the other end the clevis soldered to the wire, and not movable.I`ll bind with some good thread and put an epoxy/micro-ballon coating over the binded portions at both ends of these rods.This might be a good job for my, fly tying bobin(fishing)..Andrew will I need to put a backing plate, inside the fuse, where the rods will exit the fuse..Oh by the way Andrew, I`ll have to use the standard sized servos for now, maybe you`ll have an idea of a movable servo tray of some sort that can be changed ,when I`m able to exchange, for the smaller versions,and what are your thoughts on the control surfaces throws.I`m glad I didn`t go ahead ,and make the braces, and permanently install that system, I was going to use ...DAVE.

Bipe Flyer

Another nice thing about the balsa pushrods is that you can replace them easily if you move the servos later. This is where hard balsa comes in handy, so if you have a 3/16" plank that is harder/stiffer than the rest, us it to make your sticks.

No need to reenforce, just cut slots for the rods to exit. If you really want a clean look you can get exit guides.
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXK061&P=7

Hmm, throws... I'd say about 5/16" for the elevator, 3/16" to 1/4" for the ailerons and 3/8" for the rudder.

D Bronk

Those exit guides look nice,seems like they can be installed after covering at any time.the plank I pictured is a pretty nice piece of balsa.,and fairly firm.So I`ll make them up tommorrow..how do you think the Stick system, over the golden rod system ,compares weight wise??

Bipe Flyer

Sticks should be lighter than Golden Rods, it depends on the size of the wire that you use on each end. Z bends are the most reliable, easiest and lightest connection you can make, they just aren't very adjustable.

D Bronk

ANDREW I`ve got the ,DU-BRO, 2-56 SPRING steel KWIK-LINKS,and .072" threaded wire. I`ll keep the wire as short as possible with the threaded end to the outside of plane ,so that the rods can be adjusted without having to remove the control horn,or removing the wing,to work(adjust) on the rod.Let me know if you think I`m over looking something.By the way I don`t have a Z- bend pliers and I`m guessing most beginners won`t have one either..They would more likely be able to get their hands on soldering equipment.Although ,I could free-hand the Z-bend,with pliers ..If you still think that is best.I also have aprox..0.035" music wire on hand,actually a good amount..Maybe that wire, with the NY -ROD as a housing is a possibility too.Just want to way the options before I end up Re-making parts again..D.B.

SGC

Another point reguarding wire/carbonfiber pushrods, they can cause radio interferanc/reduce range , to be avoided if possiable.
Also with the pushrods , its best to use a "Z" bend at one end this reduces the chance of the pushrod rotateing with vibration and unscrewing the clevice- (I know with bent wire ends this useually cant happen , but nevertheless I have seen it)
Stewart

Bipe Flyer

I just use needle nose pliers to make Z bends. I'm sure that's how most people do it.

D Bronk

Well the verdict is in, 1 end, fixed Z-bend ,on a BALSA stick,and a threaded clevis at the other.Probably the best that can be done Thanks GENTs. DAVE B.

Cowboy88

If you guys want to add another little sport trainer to your hanger, try scaling down the CG Eagle by 30%. You'll end up with what CG used to call the Ranger 42. The ranger used a tapered wing, was all molded foam, in an era when very few ARFs existed.

The Ranger 42 had a 42" wingspan and was tri-gear. Flew very well on an old Max 10 and 5% nitro, using a heavy (buy todays standards) 4 CH radio. The plane used a thickened Clark Y airfoil and flew wonderfully. I scaled this plane up 1.5x and had a plane the flew like a cloud floating by on a nice spring day.

I flew the larger plane using Veco 19 and then a K&B 35. The 19 was just enough to get the plane airborn and flow slow and gental. The 35 allowed you to do rolls and loops. With either engine the plane rose off the ground when you opened the throttle and landing was as simple as pointing it down the runway and chopping the throttle. The plane would glide in for a perfect landing.

The 42" was a bit faster, and required flaring but flew very well. I made several versions of the plane from wood using the original foam wings. The whole ranger serries was mostly free flight but many were converted to rudder only using 1/8A-1/2A engines Like the Spitfires and McCoys. The Eagle is not much more than the Ranger 42 scaled up 1.5x. Scaling it back down should produce a nice looking and great flying 1/2A. I think I'll try this one.... Any takers?


Cowboy88

newtech

Since this is a training/trainer thread, I will pitch out another source for materials. You can stop by your local welding supply shop and buy a couple of pounds of copper clad 1/16" mild steel brazing rod. It comes in 36" lengths and is sold by the pound. The copper keeps it from rusting and makes it very eazy to solder. A few bucks and you will have a life time supply.

D Bronk

I `ld definately keep an eye open if you were to start a,new thread on it,Cowboy.Right now,I`ve got enough on my plate.IT would be great for a beginner to have a few choices though.For my nephews the simpler the better..D.B.

Bipe Flyer

I have the Ranger 30 plans.

A friend of mine took the dimesions and moments from an Eagle 2 and made a little plane for a PAW .033. It flies great.

Cowboy88

Wow Bipe! I haven;t seen the Ranger 30 planes in years.... I build three of these back in the early seventies. One C/L, One Rudder only, and one rudder elevator. The y flew well. The 42 had similar lines. I had the same wing outline but the fuse was a little fatter and it was tri-gear. The little airplane looks great also!

D Bronk said that a simple trainer was what he was looking for. There use to be a 1/2A version of the RealThing. A fat parasol type trainer. It was simple to build and flew slow do to very high drag from the flat firewall which was very large. I kow I build a small version of the Real thing from scratch for a G-Marks 0.030. It flew well but was just a tad under powered and overweight do to the standard size radio I used. But this type of plane works well for basic trainers.

A stick type trainer could also be built. I have planes for the littlest stick I could scale these up a bit if anyone likes. I alright with paper but I would need to send the planes to someone else to redraw them in a CAD/CAM application.

I use to love to design and scratch build. I haven't done it in a while. But I think the bug has bit me again....


Cowboy88

Bipe Flyer

Do a search on LS150 for a 150% Littlest Stick. There is also the Das Not Ugly, by Ptulmer. I've designed a couple of sticks myself.