Tim Wiltse-RCU

I have heard a rumor that a fellow named Glenn Lee had bought all the extra parts and the tooling and may bring the Shuriken engines back!!! Now if they do with a decent price that would be killer!

Later,
Tim

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

20 years or so ago when they first came out it was a situation where the first copies got gobbled up by FF & CL guys. After the appetites' of a select few were satisfied, the interest level faded. I think at the time they went for over $200! If it comes out again, I would think it will be with a cast case this time. The original barstock engine was said to be very heavy.

ajcoholic

My Feedback: (10)

Tim, thats old news I am afraid...

He was at the collecto and the swap at the Toledo show past APril. He was asking something like $350 an engine, and allthough they looked real purty (being anodised blue and pink and gold, ect) they felt "bad" to me, ie, they did not feel like they were fit really well allthough I handled just one or two, my partner also said the same thing.

For high performance, they are never going to touch the G&Z that is only $80 US....

I think mainly collectors will buy them, if anyone - fpr that price. And he had boxes and boxes of them... I mean like I saw a HUGE box of them... and I doubt he sold more than a few all weekend.

AJC

Deadstik

My Feedback: (8)

Aj.

Where could I find some info on the G&Z engines...I'm afraid I've been out of the loop a LONG time on high performance 1/2 A engines. My last one I thought was High Performance was a Fox .049 FAI Special !!! Had that on my Jr. Falcon and it turned it into a MISSILE!
Anyway... a link would be good.. I need another missile!!!

Dan


aka deadstik....[8D]

ajcoholic

My Feedback: (10)

Bill Huges sells them (and runs them in CL speed)

[email protected]

Bill and Lori Hughes
(630) 736-6036

gcb

Dan,

The Fox .049 is available again...but NOT from Fox.

George

ptulmer

My Feedback: (5)

Well...don't be cryptic! Where's the fox available from?

Andrew

Question for you speed deamons and engine builders: Tim, AJC, CP, Larry Driskell, Matchless, ....

NORVEL put fairly hot motor on the market at a competitive price with their AME models.

Why, given available production techniques and outstanding CNC equipment, are we continuing to pay top dollar for engines (.049-.061 range) that will turn in the mid to upper twenties. Is there that much hand-fitting involved or is it a niche market that can command high prices?

the "other" andrew

ptulmer

My Feedback: (5)

Well, to be fair, top dollar for a g&z that will turn up 40,000 rpm(with their speed prop) is less than $130 w/pipe. The AME will hit the upper 20's and maybe the lower 30's. It's a great engine, but not up to competition standards. I think Combatpigg's experience with his 1/2a speed plane speaks more loudly than my opinion though. With the AME it would barely get on it's side for the pylon runs he was doing. Of course it also depends on the contest your in and the requirements. Another opinion of mine is the VA is an upgrade from the AME and is not much more money. And both are bushing engines. (the g&z is bearing)

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

HI ANDREW! I think the engine builders are like fishermen. They design the bait to attract whatever species that they are going after. NORVEL and VA could build engines in limited quantity to match the CYCLONS and FORAS if they wanted to. The NORVEL 1/2A engine doesn't even have a bushed crank, so the time to slap one of these together is half of an engine with bearings. The CYCLON and FORA engines have so many more machining steps, and critical tolerances to maintain. Critical tolerances translates to more "no-go" part matchings, and wasted time during assembly. The GZ is a slightly different species from the CYCLON and FORA. The blueprint design is a killer for speed, but the user might need to do some final fitting to make it ready to run. I think all these engines are an excellent value, depending on what you are after. I personally think the most fun for the dollar is with the FORA or CYCLON because they can deliver unreal power weekend after weekend, are easy on plugs, don't need a tuned pipe, and are ready to run right out of the box.

Larry Driskill

Back in late 1989 or early 1990 I bought one of the first Shurikens. My intention was to use it in 1/2A Combat and maybe debut it at the 1990 Nats. I had been corresponding with Fred Baldwin, one of the two gentlemen involved in the project, and as far as I know there were no other Combat flyers with one then. But as life laid it out, when spring came along Uncle Sam had sent me to a new assignment and I was requalifing in the T-38 and could not go to the Nats. So I sent the Shuriken and a plane or two to Mike Willcox ( In 2002 Mike became the Combat World Champ) and he entered the Nats with it.

Fred was at the Nats and helped Mike with the unfamiliar setup. The competition was all TeeDees and so Mike had lots of horsepower on them and could do about whatever he wanted . . . when everything was clicking. I had not really got the thing sorted out and they had consistency issues, still there is a good chance he would have won, but near the final match the engine dropped a wrist pin keeper and that was that.

By the time I was out of that 75 hours a week assignment and retired from the AF, the Shuriken was out of production and the first VA and the AME were becoming available. They made more power than the TeeDee, a bit less than the Shuriken, but weighed and cost much less.

I weighed this one and it is 65 grams (just a bit over 2.25 ounces). The parts list with it says $210 and that seems about what I paid.

Larry Driskill

The engine is anodized and so my standard glow clip set-up would not work. "Hey, this is competition I thought, get out the wire brush and clean that case off and make it the way God probably intended it to be in the first place."

What do you suppose that little exercise cost me in 'Collector' value?

Larry Driskill

A variety of screw-in venturi sizes were available. Nice feature

Larry Driskill

The Skuriken uses a glow bee plug (the one that fit the Cox engines) and I am not sure where you would get a good supply now.

I don't remember what the plug I have in here is, but it may be a Norvel plug I turned down to fit.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Well, since YOU owned it, LARRY, it's worth quite alot! Like a MARK DONAHUE CAMARO! If looks could kill, anybody that went up against that thing with a TD probably had a small lump forming at the beginning of the match![X(]

Tim Wiltse-RCU

pt,

You can get the Fox .049 FAI from Randell Hopkins. His email is [email protected] He bought all of the Fox .049 and .07 parts.

Later,
Tim

Tim Wiltse-RCU

Combatpigg,

Would that be with or without the 302 Chevy with crossram intake?

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Hey TIM! I spent about 2 weeks polishing out a crossram in exchange for rent,[ right before going into the service], so I am INTIMATELY familiar with that manifold. I have seen some outstanding examples of 302s, it is a majical combination, a 327 block and a 283 crank. It would be a great engine to revisit today with modern FI and ignition. The crossram & 780s was a POS compared with what you have today. Mark Donahue was like a machine going around a track, his shift points were like 5 feet apart from lap to lap.

Larry Driskill

Well Thank You Pigg. Tho you flatter I will smile and enjoy.

And speaking of Camaros . . . here is a Z-28 I bought new in September of '68 and still have. Not a Donahue, but I had a bunch of fun and some adventures in it over the years.

Oh yes, 1/2A forum. Let's see . . . Will, if I took the back seat out I could haul a bunch of 1/2As in there!

Tim Wiltse-RCU

It makes me sick, my Dad had a friend that was a fellow farmer. The guy had a number of old Chey iron laying around the orchard. I know there was a 57 Normad Wagon and a couple mid 60's Impalas. One day while at the guys place with my Dad one of the doors were open on the main barn. Inside sat a 69' Z-28. On the floor next to it sat 2 engines with the crossrams on them missing the carbs! I am sure they were 302's. I didn't know then to look for the code on the blocks though. Just before my Dad died last spring he told me the guys barn fell in from a heavy snow and the car was CRUSHED....like I said it makes me sick!

Later,
Tim

Larry Driskill

Andrew,

One problem with our favorite size of engine is that it, a high performance 1/2A, has to be at least as precisely made as a .40. Folks interested in competition will expect to pay 250 plus dollars for a Nelson .40 for pylon. But $250 for a .049 strikes most of us a a bit steep. And that is knowing full well that the 1/2a is probably more difficult to make and the .40 does not have but a few dollars worth of addition materials in it.

And yes, I think the high performance 1/2a segment is a pretty small niche. Norvel sold many more Big Migs than they sold AMEs. And now the AMEs are apparently being discontinued.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Tim, your story makes a good point about how I feel about having possessions. Life is too short to just see how much stuff we can amass, there is no point in having some of this stuff if it isn't being used. Reggie Jackson lost a huge cllection of muscle cars that were in a warehouse fire. He had so many cars, it would have been a full time job to just drive each one on a regular basis. Made me ill.

WOW! Look at LARRYs' CAMARO! How many of these cars are still owned by the original owner? The neat thing about it now is that there are more restoration parts for this car than ever before.

1/2A subject, I'll bet LARRYs' car could steamroll a bunch of 1/2A planes.

av8rsodt

My Feedback: (23)

Larry Driskill -

The T-38 has got to be one of the sexiest jets ever made (simple elegance). Incredible aircraft to still be in service around the world.

They fly into "old" Williams AFB in Arizona to stop in for the weekends all the time. I particularly liked the ones from Beale AFB (U-2 pilots I am told) - Black T-38's with red lettering. NASA pilots would also frequently visit.

My favorite is the Thunderbird scheme...

Brian

Larry Driskill

Yes, the T-38 is truly a Sports Car!

And I see where they are being refitted with glass cockpits. 'Better to teach the student pilots in a vehicle instrumented more like the current operational planes.

When I was at stationed Beale they were white like everyone else's. I have not seen the black ones. From a pilot's standpoint, having the T-38 as the campanion airplane for instrument practice is one of the many great things about the U-2 program. However, it might be difficult to find two airframes with more differences in flight characteristics.

Too bad for us they are jets, as a pair of matching - scale.061 powered black planes would be fun. Maybe Japanman needs to build more fan units.

Andrew

Your response makes perfect sense. I had some email exchanges with Ed Stevens of NORVEL several weeks back relative to continuing development of the .061 and his comments mirrored yours: The cost of production of a plain bearing .40 is only marginally higher than an .061, yet the flyers are willing to pay more dollars (although a TT GP-42 is only $6 more than a BIGMIG .061) which translates into a higher profit margin -- I guess size matters. Given a higher profit/engine and likely a larger buyer base, I can see why NORVEL would want to expand their larger engine line.

I think you're correct that the AME .049 and possibly the entire .049 NORVEL line is going away. I'm in hopes that the .061 AME will remain available and certainly that the BIGMIG .061 will continue to be produced. The cranks are the same for the BIGMIG and AME, so intake timing is not an issue. With AME piston/cylinder sets available, at least we can still convert relatively easily.

With the size of the 1/2A market and even smaller high performance 1/2A market, I guess high end small engines will remain a little pricey (at least to my wallet[])

the "other" andrew