BobHH

My Feedback: (18)

OK Guys, Its time for a little racing!!! We‘ve decided to sponsor a 1/2A “Reedy Race”. I talked with Rog sometime back and it came up again this afternoon while talking to Raymond. Here are the rules:

1. Model must be powered by a stock Cox .049 reed valve engine. (That means Cox stock Tim, not Tim stock!!! Ha Ha!)
2. Any airplane size or design can be used as long as you can safely control your model in flight.
3. We will supply Sig 35% 1/2A caster fuel and a stock torpedo 6-3 prop for each contestant.
4. We will fly around 2 pylons and the first plane to fly completely around 5 times wins!
5. Planes to be hand launched together by helper/spotter and there will be a 15 to 20 second delay(To Be Determined) between announcing start your engines until race begins to have models running and ready.
6. In the event of 2 models being on the same frequency a timed flight with be flown and the fastest time will take precedence.

What do you think. I am hoping we can have the first race in June or July during one of our Carolina Crew 1/2A flyins. This should give contestant’s time to design/build/test their designs. I would like to give a small trophy or Plaques away for 1st, 2nd and 3rd place so a small entry fee may be needed to cover their cost. What do you think? Let’s run it up the flag pole!! BTW anyone is invited to fly. The more the merrier, the more crashes?

Bob Harris
Early RC Models
www.earlyrcmodels.com

flyinrog

My Feedback: (1)

Sounds cool to me, we could either have it or practice at it ,at my first meet in May,on the 7th is my first meet, but I still have to get permission and that wont happen till next week..politics dont you know....I'm all for it,,if thats not good I had planned on having the second meet in June/July maybe we could figure out a date so I could submit it to the club next week..my 3rd meet is tentatively 10-01-05...I gotta get in some practice this spring,,do you have a size/model in mind or is it just .049 reed on whatever we can fly?...Lets DO IT!!..Rog

Tim Wiltse-RCU

Hey..what the heck does that mean???? It seems that at the last couple of NC Small Fly-Ins I have had some of the worse running reedies of the group. By stock what are we going to call stock? Would a Venom be stock as long as it's stock? A Black Widow with a TD cylinder/piston/head? Or are we talking box stock with nothing better than a #1 twin bypass cylinder and the dirt screen still on the backplate? Are all Cox reedies included i.e. Venoms, Killer Bees, Sure Starts, old product engines,Black Widows, Babe Bees etc? Can the engine be blue printed i.e. crank polished and the 4 backplate/tank mounting holes be debured?

Sounds like an awesome idea!

LAter,
Tim

hfenn

Hmmmm, sounds fun. And I do have a never run Venom Most of my runners have been mixed and matched to the point I don't know what's what anymore, just swap parts till it runs. Late June and July work for me.

flyinrog

My Feedback: (1)

Maybe we should make it an "available now" .049 which would make it a blackwidow ,babebee or product engine (killer bee),,in case someone needs to purchase an engine in order to participate..Stock Tim,,,..Stock Tim...they dont come with polished cranks......Rog

dieFluggeister

Man... it usually takes me 15-20 MINUTES to start a Cox.

Tim Wiltse-RCU

Sure they do just some not as good as others

Later,
Tim

paulgibeault

Hi Bob,

What an EXCELLENT IDEA! Man I wish I could be there....
Open designs are GOOD & hopefully the weights will be low enough (~14 oz) to allow for nice flying models. The regulation 20 oz AMA pylon models fly noticeably worse I've found.

For what it's worth, STOCK has meant over in my area as:
1. Made up from production parts of any vintage
2. You may add or subtract parts but not change (grind on) parts. Although grinding isn't such a bad deal...most grinding only slows things down if the truth be known...

I would like to recommend that you consider allowing the Doug Galbreath aftermarket heads
which use a regular Nelson glow plug for the Cox .049 engines ONLY because of the high cost of Cox TD glow heads.
Your choice of fuel is EXCELLENT, Cox's love that fuel and it gives good longevity also.

I sure wish you would reconsider your prop selection. A 6X3 is a lousy flying prop for a racer.
A 5X3 would be better.....but the very best prop would be an APC 4.75D X4P or 4.5D X 4P.
The APC prop gives the light load of a 5X3 but superior performance. Plus the APC's are most consistent from prop to prop. My experience shows that reedy's love to breathe & like smaller prop loads.

I wish you the best of luck. Sounds like FUN!

Paul Gibeault (Canada)

BobHH

My Feedback: (18)

Well, looks like a lot of questions we can sort out. I kinda like Rog's idea of available now but really was looking at the basic inexpensive engine like the Baby Bee, Product Engine, etc. The goal is to have some fun and not spend a fortune doing it. I have picked up Black Widows at swap meets for $5.00 and a scratch built balsa design can be built around $10.00. That's why the stock engine or as stock as we know it. I too swap parts and to keep them running so I may even have a odd ball laying around. As for props we can have a general discussing on that. The 6-3 is standard but what ever everyone agrees on is OK by me. Does everyone think we can at least test some designs out at Rog's meet in May?

Bob Harris
Early RC Models
www.earlyrcmodels.com

Deadstik

My Feedback: (8)

Bob,

Sounds like a great idea that we can incorporate into all the Small Flys here in NC. As for my version of "Stock"....I'll run whatever you guys come up with. I do think it needs to be kept simple like using a backplate tank. I've got a "Golden Widow" just ready for it. As for aircraft design let's make it "normal" configurations w/separate wing/stab and no deltas. You know... just thinking about it... how about a "ONE DESIGN?" Either something old school or you design something new. Either way, let me know the "final" version of the rules and I'll be there!!!

Dan

aka deadstik.........[8D]

Tim Wiltse-RCU

Some of us had talked last year about a NC 1/2a pylon event. It's just one of those hard things. How do we keep competion and turn out up while still making it fun and the cost low. If one person runs away everytime then how long will it be fun? I think when we talked about it last we said run what you brung as long as it's a Cox reedie. Maybe it was at the last NC Small Fun Fly we talked about a one design contest maybe using the LS150 as a basic design due to it's ease to build and fly and it's tough as nails and CHEAP CHEAP CHEAP.

The real worry I have is finding "stock Cox reedie". Cox mix and matched like crazy. I as I am sure most everyone have seen Cox Black Widow's with plain cases, Babe Bee's with large venturis, Black Widows with small ones, heck I did have a NIB Black Widow once with a TD cylinder and regular glow head. I do think Paul's idea of allowing Galbreath heads and Nelson plugs is a good idea though. In the end it's alot cheaper. Just my 2cents.

LAter,
Tim

mikegordon10

We have been running half A Pylon races now for the last 7 or 8 years, So I have some experience in this area. The only problem I can see with what your proposing is the time your allowing to get the engines running before the start of the race. We use a huge 60 second clock (but we're not using reed valve engines) and there are several times at each race where 60 seconds isn't enough time for some pilots. I have a hard time imagining 15 to 20 seconds. Lots of little problems can come up in the heat of the race that can be solved in 60 seconds. At our races, if ya don't get airborn before the lead models completes 3 laps - you don't launch and you score a zero for that heat. Not trying to rain on your parade but you asked for input. Have fun - 1/2 A Pylon is a blast.

DICKEYBIRD

Having been there and done that, I can add a little to the discussion.

A couple of local clubs participated in the reedie powered events that Brian Pate and I put together a few years ago and a great time was had by all participants. Human nature being what it is, some will go at it to have fun and fellowship with fellow 1/2A flyers, laughing and joking the whole time. Others will quickly turn up the wick and try to slaughter everyone to prove how much smarter/faster/better/more manly they are than everyone else. Only smiles you'll get from them is when they've lapped everyone else. Nature of the beast. I cannot tell a lie, I have to fight that monster inside me with great diligence and force him to shut the heck up!

We held numerous events with different airframes through the years, making sure that everyone flew the same aircraft, whether it was based on a mall foamie or an ugly stick style design that everyone built from plans and a pink foam wing set we provided

To tell the truth, we had just as much fun with the foamies as anything. They're cheap, fairly durable and fly well. A stout reedie will horse 'em around much better than you'd expect. No, you can't cover them with transp. covering to show off all your fabulous workmanship but you can get creative with spray can paints. The names people put on them was great! One guy did his up in Nascar trim...we discussed giving everyone a Nascar driver number and have them trim out their planes to match. We had our highest levels of participation with the foamies, by the way.

As always, the clever guys will get their incidence, CG and draggy bits tuned up better than everyone else's and their engines will howl along a couple thousand more than the rest of the field but guess what....they ain't that much faster and many times racing luck will cancel out the speed differential.

We allowed any engine combinations as long as it was an integral tank Cox reedie (Dragonflys excluded.) You make the races long enough that the modified, high rpm, big venturi monsters run out of fuel on the last lap. There also was talk of a claiming race where anyone's engine could be bought at a fair price but that never came to be. Fuel was supplied by us and we made sure it was used by everyone. The black nylon Cox 5x3 prop turned out to be best even though we allowed any props.

You can build one in a weekend and other than being ugly, they're great little planes. There are a couple of things you have to do to get them to fly right, mainly increasing the dihedral and getting the stab incidence right but that's about it. You hinge the rudder & elev., hang all the radio stuff on, then trim the nose and epoxy the engine/firewall on to get the CG close.

Our events were an all day affair with a climb/loops/glide/spot landing event; then the race (a figure 8 race around 2 poles by the way[X(]) and a combat to the death (no streamers) match at the end. Turns out that everyone lusted for bloody combat so for a while back in the 80's, we just showed up and "got it on" combat style. Your event being a more diverse affair, just do one of the above mentioned tasks to keep it short.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it!

ps: Here's a link to a discussion about foamies here in the forum a while back. http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_10...tm.htm#1054005

flyinrog

My Feedback: (1)

Just for fun, what say we make it .049 reed engine or below? there are some .020 pylon racers out there,,or maybe like Tim and Dan said,,your basic LS150 with a whatever combination you can come up with as long as it is a reed engine with an integral tank..Bob I didnt mean we need to purchase a new engine, I meant what is available now so no one has a venom or RR engine or Tim whips up a 40,000 rpm Red Devil RB on us,,but I guess we should allow Tim to use diesel if he wants...should we all use the same plane,,I'm not happy with my sharkface's performance and I know the LS150 is no racer, no delta's is good with me, ..Tim I dont know how often we would do this or whether some one person would win it every time so that it wouldnt be fun anymore,,I think its just another thing to get together for ...Rog

Bobs big Vintage fly-in is May 21 & 22 so my 2nd fly-in ,prob mid to late june ,that good for you guys?

Deadstik

My Feedback: (8)

I've been looking over 1/2 a racer plans from the past and thought I would offer this suggestion. Owen Kampen came up with a 1/2 racer called the "Upstart" in the 60s which was a "sorta scale" racing plane that used an Ace Foam wing (straight one, not tapered) and a Golden Bee. I have an original kit and would be happy to make templates for everyone who wants them. The Ace foam wings are still available and are around $5.00 a set or less.

My suggestion is to use either the "Upstart" design (and there were two or three other designs that all used the Ace straight foam wings) or any design that uses the Ace straight form wing (unmodified), and an unmodified tank mounted reed engine of your choice.

I know that somebody (I know that competitive Deadstik is rising) will want to wring every last RPM out of one of our little Cox buddies..... so... what about sending whichever engine you want to use to Tim.... and he can "authorize" the engine as (no special polishing/balancing/parts) and maybe put a little mark somewhere that the engine has been checked. Of course, we would pay Tim for his time... and of course, if he finds something fishy...he could "blackball" the engine... Mixing and matching "REEDY" parts would be ok.. but no TEE DEE parts. Whatcha thinK???


I think that would give us a pretty level playing field for FUN !!!

Deadstik....

BobHH

My Feedback: (18)

Well the 20 second start time is there because I thought that if we ran the integral tank Cox reedie we would have to toss them fairly quickly so not to run out of fuel!! I was hoping to keep it open to all designs as to spark the creative juices of these guys. We ran 1/2A open class years ago and the stock Tee Dee .051 with Glow Bee head was the only controling factor. I flew against deltas, scale racers, quickie 200s and such. We had a ball before the serious guys with all the money to burn stepped in.

I even flew a Littlest Stick with a Black Widow .049 on it but that's another story!! The idea I am working toward is just good old cheap fun get together of some guys for a few good laughs. Now if you get too serious.... You can go home!!

Bob Harris
Early RC Models
www.earlyrcmodels.com

Deadstik

My Feedback: (8)

Bob,

I think you are entirely right on the too serious part... so.. just let me know whatever the "rules" are... and I'll build something.


Dan


aka deadstik

ptulmer

My Feedback: (5)

I like the idea of an open race with the engine the only controlled factor. I'd even think about driving 7hrs to crash....I mean race! If the engine is something like a stock reedie there's more creativity being put into the airframe and more cool airplanes to be seen. There's really only so much that can be done to win.

For the seriously competitive guys that show up, I'll assure them that mine's bigger

Tim Wiltse-RCU

Bob,

I worry about the 20 second start time too but with only 8cc's of fuel from a Black Widow sized tank there is not alot of room to fudge. Maybe allow any Cox reedie except no Killer Bees or Venoms. That way we can run external tanks and add alittle time.

Dan,

I have no problem looking over engines/parts once the rules are set. I would be glad to help.

Later,
Tim

Raymond LeFlyr

My Feedback: (2)

My dos centavos. As anyone in the free-world will tell you I'm a just-for-fun kinda guy. I don't really care who wins cuz that usually means they just spent more for their engine than I did and my rule has always been if I want more power/speed behind the prop, I buy a bigger engine (usually not a Cox Reed Valve engine). And since this is something that we would probably only do once or twice a year, and I wouldn't use a purpose-built racer for anything else, I don't consider building an optimized racing model for that purpose only.

I thought we always talked about "run what you brung". The discussion I remember was that LS-150s would be perfect since most of us have 'em and they are easy to fly. That certainly wasn't a proposal for a single design - of any design. How would the Crew ever agree on one anyway?

Why no deltas? I was just going to screw a Black Widow back on my Blitz (it started with a BW then switched to a Norvel for more performance. So what happened to "no restriction on aircraft so long as its controllable?" I could also use my Sharkface (my little TD .020-powered Hoot is the fastest model I own but I'd rather fly something slower and bigger so I could "keep up" with my peers). I just thought the delta would be something different. H*** I'd run a biplane if I had one or maybe I'll dig out a 1/2a combat model I haven't flown in years.

Wasn't the main idea to just get us in the air together? I would be happy if we all just tried to fly the course at the same time and the one who has the most fun "wins". I didn't think we were going to have pylon judges counting cuts but now what are you gonna do about 'scoring' those "mis-haps"?

The idea behind the common 6x3 prop was to slow them down since this was not about "go fast" - just something different from climb and glide and spot landing - not 'real' competition. The "everybody uses the same fuel" was to keep things equal and prevent the use of 50% nitro and keep down the dreaded C-word (Competition).

I thought about proposing that you had to pull a loop on each lap - just for fun, huh? Or how about a loop on one lap and a roll on the next and keep alternating? Would that be fun or what? How do you score all that? Beats me - I don't care. Tell you what, if we do this at Smithfield I'll ask you to loop or roll on each into-the-wind lap.

OK, guys fire away.

Deadstik

My Feedback: (8)

I can see where this is going..... Raymond will next suggest we loop/roll each lap... plus after landing.. first one who eats a cracker and then whistles "DIXIE" wins !!!!

Who says Tarheels aren't creative?? [sm=spinnyeyes.gif]

But seriously... after thinking about this.... I am going to go the cowards way and just do whatever BOB tells me too..... ROFL>>>>> much simpler and requires NO effort on my part..... talk about the lemming effect???

deadstik......[8D]

Tim Wiltse-RCU

Raymond,

After a rough day you make me laughI don't care either what the "rules" are but we need some kind of rules just the same. I think the Sharkface would make one fast pylon racer! I started on getting mine finished last night and then got back after this years design contest plane. The thing I like so much about all the Carolina Crew is that no one has the "mine's better than yours" attitude.

So I thought I would throw this out to the guys looking to get in on Bob's 1/2a pylon race. At the first offical race HyperColor will give away as a prize to the LAST place finisher a Sniper DR .049, that ought to keep it interesting! Here's my shameless plug, not that anyone would but if you have my site bookmarked notice the change to my website name. It's listed at the bottom of this post.

Later,
Tim

BobHH

My Feedback: (18)

Ok guys, there have been some good points thrown out. I still would like it to be open model design. I like seeing different designs. The Integral Tank .049 will be the engine of choice. I was hoping to take everyone's word on being stock. I think that would fall under honest and fair. Most of you look honest or maybe I just have not seen your picture hanging in the Post Office yet!! Tim, if you want to check that's OK I will leave it up to the majority. As for the time to launch lets do some testing and see how consistent can we crank Cox .049 ha ha!!

Raymond, as for the extra maneuvers, how about each members whose club we are meeting at can pick 1 maneuver, roll, loop etc. Again the focus will be having fun, flying and getting to see everyone again!! Yes I agree with Raymond the major accomplishment will be get 4 or 5 models in the air at once going in the same direction!!!

BTW, Here is a peek at one of my racer designs. What do you think? Too much aileron??? I was saving it for one of Tim's Sniper DR ,049s but thought it would be great for the race!!

Bob Harris
Early RC Models
www.earlyrcmodels.com

Raymond LeFlyr

My Feedback: (2)

Dan, let me know if you prefer Saltines or Ritz? Phhfft mmmm llspt -- thweet.

Tim, Last place wins BIG TIME! You are one special guy. I think I won't be the only one looping and rolling. Uh, but excuse me what exactly do you mean by "better"? Frankly, I believe there are several categories of "better" at which "mine" may indeed excell.

My Sharkface is pretty quick with the Golden Bee that's already on it. So if there may be more than one S'face involved I will withdraw my "offer" of the delta. Unless, of course, I decide otherwise.

Tim Wiltse-RCU

Bob,

Those sound good to me!

Later,
Tim

P.S. Bob you have to much time on your hands