JasonRP

Hi All,

Just curious, as to what are the best, currently available, throttled 1/2a glow engines?

I see Tower now sells an AP Wasp .061. I think that Norvel BigMig .061's are still available too (anyone know for sure?) Seems that .049 R/C engines are not as common, and I think Norvel discontinued theirs.. Also, are the Norvel .07 class motors still having Qualilty Control issues, or has that long been solved now?

Are AP's Norvel engines made by someone else?

Finally, anyone else making throttled, 1/2a R/C motors that are easily available, and friendly to run?

Sorry if this post is a rehash of older questions, but things seem a bit different since the last time I went shopping around for motors, and my LHS now only carries ARF and RTF electrics! Sheesh!

Jason

dieFluggeister

If you are looking for the 061-074 class I'm a big fan of Norvel. Great power and nice throttle/idle when broke in and light. Can still get em too without too much trouble.

ptulmer

My Feedback: (5)

Norvel dropped the .049's but kept the .061. Same weight but 20% more power. Available as BigMig sport engine or firebreathing AME's. Get them from www.Norvel.com
The VA .049 is a really beautiful engine with a fantastic carb. A little expensive but it's another firebreather. Get'em at www.kittingittogether.com
AP apparently is a chinese knockoff of the Norvel. Some have had success, but not me. Horrid little beasties in my opinion.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

One word, CYCLON.

JasonRP

What's the CYCLON ??

ptulmer

My Feedback: (5)

The CYCLON ain't throttled! And you forgot the FORA!

http://www.cyclonengines.narod.ru/
http://pages.prodigy.net/gcleveland_...ls/index3.html

AndyW

My Feedback: (1)

Jason,

The BEST small engine currently, in my opinion, is the Norvel .074. There are issues with proper break in but once you're past that, you get an engine with the best power to weight ratio of any that is available today. The real bonus for me, is perfect throttling without touching a thing. Just plug and play. I also, very much like the bolt on muffler with positive pressure to the tank.

The current VAs (MK2) are very good as well as they come with a throttle with an adjustable airbleed and also a neat, bolt on muffler. The rear exhaust along with the muffler allows you to have the exhaust come out the left OR right side. Sometimes that can be an issue in scale aircraft and cowled engines.

Prior to the Norvels, there was one other engine that, at the time, was very light and could be considered to have the best power to weight ratio till then. That was the VA MK1. It wasn't RC but came with a neat bolt on muffler. The addition of a throttle produced a very powerful engine with excellent throttling. And this kind of performance in 1/2A RC was available over ten years ago.

I just did one up for a fellow in Texas and sent him a video clip. Hopefully it'll load on this thread.

Nope, won't go. PM me if you're interested.

But, here's a pic of the VA MK2 and the original MK1 with an early style Norvel throttle adapted to suit.

Silvaire

My Feedback: (50)

Late night post regarding Cox spinner and head withdrawn...

AndyW

My Feedback: (1)

Uh, thanks Silvaire.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

JASON, the CYCLON is a world class engine made in europe, they have a .061 that is capable of taking a model over 130mph. It is most popular as a free flight or control line combat engine, but also makes a great engine for RC too. Check out their website, it is most impressive! They idle very reliably at zero rpm when out of fuel. Who needs a throttle for 1/2A?

SST

My Feedback: (2)

If by 'best' you mean best bang for the buck, the .074 Norvel wins hands down...Power of a hot .10 at 1/3 the weight, with a great throttle and just about bulletproof reliability. I have 6, and recently auctioned off my OS & Magnum .10s, and Enya .09 & .15 as they were not only redundant, but outclassed.

AndyW

My Feedback: (1)

Agree with SST,

Power to price ratio is also the best with the Norvel .074. I can't imagine any quality issues either. ALL my Norvels in any size have always been top notch and, in fact, superior to many. The only thing you have to watch for is when you use a starter. You can bend a rod on any engine if you're not careful. The trick to breaking in any Norvel Revlite is to use a heat gun on the initial half dozen or so cold starts. After that, she'll flip through TDC just fine.

Combat,

If you ever DO need to throttle a Cyclon or Fora, that's a challenge I certainly wouldn't turn down.

flyinrog

My Feedback: (1)

Jason the quality issues with the .074 were mostly with the heli eingine for LMH,, and its a much more patient breakin process,,I had to run 4 tanks through mine with 8 shims in the head but it ran great....the airplane issue is a one day breakin a good tank or two and she;s ready to go..Rog

JasonRP

Well, power-to-weight ratio is probably the factor that most people are looking in to. I'll probably get there too one day. But for now, I'm only experienced with Cox reedies, and also the stock type .15 motors that go into nitro R/C cars- the ones with pull start and single needle carbs (super easy and beginner friendly). So, I guess I'm still pretty green as far as motors go.

So, I think for me, a motor that puts out at least usable power, but the main focus point for me is a motor that is beginner friendly- simple break-in, easy to start, easy to tune, and reliable. I was wondering if anyone has tried Thunder Tiger's .7 class motor? I know it's heavier than a Norvel, and doesn't put out as much power, but if it's a real smoothie and easy to break-in and start, I'm willing to trade off hi-performance until I learn more about engines.. I bet an )S .10 would be easy, but that's probably too big and heavy for most 1/2a models..

Also, some of you may remember from me posting here before, I've got a Norvel .061 R/C that I only got running once (with much help from a guy at the hobby shop), and I never tried it again. Maybe I should just stop wimping out and try to get this thing running. Is an electric starter and heat gun pretty much the only reliable way to get tight motors going at first? If it means anything, I think the motor has a grey cylinder (not black)..

Jason

AndyW

My Feedback: (1)

Jason,

You get a Norvel broken in and running you won't be sorry. Yes, use the heat gun for all cold starts, makes a world of difference. Try this. flip the prop with the engine cold. Flip it over slowly. Then do the same thing with the engine hot. Again, a world of difference. Needle it up right away to a just lean setting. Not over lean but definitely not rich. You need the engine to come up to temps right away to allow for the cylinder to expand to give you running clearances.

Do a half dozen two minute runs with complete cool down between. What you want to do is heat cycle the parts. After a half dozen of so of these, you can likely dispense with the gun and try starting cold. If not, do a few more hot starts.

When the Norvel is run in properly, it will give you very good power and should last a long time. Plus there's the fuel economy.

Andrew

A number of folks have TT .07's -- read the thread on Bipe Flyer's Bipe Stik -- he has flown the same model with a TT and NORVEL with better performance from the NORVEL. While the TT is pretty, the performance doesn't match the looks.

NORVELs can be difficult to start initially and do require a more extensive breakin than most folks are used to. As far as breakin is concerned, COX engines are at one end of the spectrum and NORVELs are at the other. I would not recommend using a starter without some prior experience with the NORVELs. I suspect a number of engines have ended up on the block with bent rods due to impatience and frustration -- the larger starters have a slower spin rate and too much torque, especially if you happen to have a hydraulic lock before starting. However, I support the recommendations for using a heat gun -- it eases the topend pinch a bit and will let you get a good starting flip. You may also have a little more success if you start off with the muffler removed -- if an engine is being a bit balky, I will try running without the muffler for a few runs just for ease of priming and blowing out the cylinder if it appears to be flooded.

Learn to start your NORVEL -- you will be pleased with the results.

ptulmer

My Feedback: (5)

Jason, maybe it's because I live in a hot climate, but I've never needed or even tried the heat gun trick. If your .061 isn't running, there's a reason. The only break-in I did was in the instructions. Take the head off and flip 100 times. Put it back together and run a couple tanks. I've got 50+ flights on it and it still runs like new. That's just the most used one that I have. It's ALWAYS easier to start the Norvel than a freakin' hateful reedie.
The Norvel .061's like small props too. I use a black cox 5x3 and get plenty of power.

You ask about engines, but what is your use? That is a REALLY big deal when choosing an engine. Matter-of-fact, the airframe will choose the engine you need if you pay attention. Throttle really isn't a big deal unless you're a big ol' weenie.

AndyW

My Feedback: (1)

Yeah, the only time we see any Georgia type weather is for like, two weeks in July. The rest of the time we're dodging mosquitoes and snowflies.

Oiling and flipping till you're wife calls you to bed can work and lots of guys have good luck with it. But still, the first time you have a little excess prime, the oil gets washed out and you can lock up again if you're not careful. Especially, as Andrew says, your starter is a gorilla with big biceps. I use a homemade unit made from a speed 400 motor and gearbox. The sockets on my field box have big dropping resistors in them and this tones down the torque some. As such, if the engine suffers liquid lock, the starter simply stalls. Just luck on my part the way it worked out.

Taking off the muffler is another good idea. After all, what 1/2A has a muffler? This does allow you to see and dump excess fuel. Just DON'T prime into the exhaust, EVER, for the above reason. At least not when breaking in the engine. Norvel's fuel transfer through the engine is so efficient that a couple of drops into the intake is all that's needed.

As far as throttling goes, PT is right, it all depends on the airplane and what ya wanna do with it. But, man, when you have it, it's hard to go back. Monkey on my back, I'm addicted. [sm=bananahead.gif]

And props? Recent revelations have convinced me that Cox props are the best for nearly any engine.

BTW, is this the Big Mig or the AME .061?

SST

My Feedback: (2)

I'm basically a lazy guy, so I break in my Norvels thus:
1. Remove the head, muffler & backplate.
2. Set the engine nose-up in a small pan of some kind.
3. Fill to the necessary level to submerge the cylinder (but try to avoid the carb) with the oil of your choice. I like Kendall GT-1 30W.
4. Go do something else for a week.
5. Remove from oil & blow, swab, or allow oil to drain thoroughly, or any combination thereof.
6. Mount 'er up without the head, muffler or backplate, and hit for a few seconds with your e-starter (I have never applied heat to my engines). This will force more oil out. I have a long-beamed mount for the AP .09/.15 that allows lots of room behind the motor so I can...
7. Remount backplate and use the starter again...More oil will be forced up, so swab it off the piston.
8. Remount head & muffler and get it on...For break-in I use all 3 head shims & 15% Omega (for .074). I run nothing but Cox props on my Norvels. After your first running, pull the head and flush the glowplug with fuel, as a trace of oil will find it's way to the head on the first run. Now you're cookin'.


PS...I was out today flying my Global SST .09 (the recommended engines are the AP .09-.15) with one of my Norvel .074s in it. This plane flies with authority on this engine. I also fly a Sig Ninja with a nose-mounted .074.

JasonRP

Well, I am kinda a weenie! I don't mean to sound too wimpy, but even with my Cox black widow and a 6x3, the wide-open throttle makes for flights that are a little bit nerve-wracking. I've got an electric "Parkzone" J-3 cub, and that thing flys at just the opposite- it's veryy docile and relaxing to fly, although it could use more power for climbout and aerobatics..

I'm still pretty green, but I'm learning. So, I'm sure I'll be wanting more power once I get more experience.

Here's my current (glow powered) fleet:
Ace T6 Texan (still building, no engine selected yet. Was considering Thunder T. GP.07 or Norvel .061)
Ace Whizard (Cox .049 Black Widow)
Herr Starcruiser (Norvel BigMig .061, non-revlite, never been flown)

I'd even consider building a "Dickeybird Special" throttled TD The only problem with that is, since I haven't been at this for a long time, I don't have all the parts to build it already in stock, so it would cost me more $$$ and time to get one of those up and running then any other, already throttled mill.

I need to stop whining and just get this norvel running. I haven't even seriously tried to get it going since it was run at the hobby shop it's first run.

Jason

ptulmer

My Feedback: (5)

Jason, don't get too frustrated with the Norvel. I've noticed they take an unusually long break-in to start picking up the rpm's.
If this engine is for the T6, and your stated skill level, I'd get that .061 going and stick a 6x3 or 6x2 prop on it. That'll keep the rpm's and speed down and provide alot of power. BTW, my advice is usually worth every penny you paid. And sometimes less...

JasonRP

OK, you guys have me sold on Norvels now!

Just two more questions:

So, it seems that the Wasp engines are cheap Chinese made knock-offs of the Norvels. But, are the parts interchangeable? Or, would there be any advantage to using some of those engines for parts, say- maybe cheap glow plugs or something like that?

Also, what's the best way to get a Norvel that's been in storage for a while running again? If I don't have to, I'd rather not take it apart and go through the whole motor, unless you folks think that this is utterly necessary or beneficial to check on the condition. This motor was run once (using Cox fuel) in aboiut 1998, and then put away- the piston is not seized, but I'm sure the motor is gummed up from all this time. If teardown/reassembly is necessary, are there any guides anywhere to doing this- also are any new gaskets or seals required?

Also, what does soaking a new motor in oil for a week do? I noticed that the Norvel manual says to soak the new motor in gasoline to get rid of some transit coating? Does anyone actually do this?

Thanks for being so patient with me guys! If it's any consolation, all the flyers at the two local fields around here are flying only .40+ size birds, so once I get my act together, I'll be sure to draw attention to 1/2a technology! I bet the vast majority of these guys have no idea how good the Norvels are.

Jason

ptulmer

My Feedback: (5)

Jason, that Norvel is kinda older than I thought. If it's the old style with the carb body one piece with the crankcase... ugh. Double ugh. You might want to get the newer version that is WAY better. You may be able to change the head to use the newer style plug. That would be a really big help.

JasonRP

Hmm.. As usual, I don't know what the heck I've got! It looks like the carb is a seperate piece to me, as there is what looks to be a seam between the carb body and the crankcase- and there is also a screw just behind the needle that might be a carb body set screw? Or, is this the throttle close/stop adjustment? Here are a couple of pics.. The first one is a tiny bit blurry, but hopefully it shows enough of the needle and the screw behind it. What do you think? Is this an "All-one-peice" unit?

Jason

ptulmer

My Feedback: (5)

? The cylinder looks like an older version for sure. The carb looks like the newer style though. My experience is only with the new style. I'll have to let some of the others tell you if that one can use/be made to use the "freedom" plug.