99GrandTouring

Browsing on towerhobbies I noticed all their cox engines are discontinued, does this mean they aren't making them anymore?
I'm building a glider that I was wanting to put a tee dee .049 on but I need to get it still...
Whats the word on this or is just tower discontinuing them?
Thanks!

Andrew

The following is a quote by Dave Redden of COX Models:

Big Al-RCU

In addition to Andrew's comments, I would add that there are hundreds of thousands of Cox engines out there that are still in like new condition. They will be available for years to come. Just don't get in a hurry, and keep an eye out. No need to pay a premium.
Al

SST

My Feedback: (2)

Get a Norvel. I got rid of all my Cox engines, wouldn't use one for ballast.

jetpack

My Feedback: (1)

Buddy whatever it is you have against Cox engines dosn't belong in this thread.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

And guys with thin skin have no business in this forum! Some day the title of this thread won't be phrased as a question, but merely a statement of fact.

BMatthews

Easy guys. SST can't help it if he missed his meds....

One advantage of a Norvel option is that it would allow the use of a muffler. Something to be said for that on a powered "glider". Granted the Norvel muffler isn't much but it does take the edge off the sound.

Andrew

Hey Jetpack --

If you wander back far enough through the theads here, you'll see there are two camps: The Norvelites and the COXists. We generally git along and SST didn't mean nothing, but he's been glueing a lot of foam lately and sometimes gits riled up from the fumes.

Jist so you know:

There's some ole guy named DickeyBird, lives down South, that gits to drinkin' the bore cleaner for some cannon he's made, then things git outta' hand. Ever since them Tennessee boys learned to read and type, well, it's been Katie bar the door. This whole slam-bam is DickeyBird's fault. Yep, he's the one -- he's to blame. He won't change, won't see the light -- causes trouble, stirs things up. He's mired in old technology -- bet his telephone has a crank on the side. He don't like engines where the piston don't spin around. He'll show up soon enough -- a slick 'un, he is. You gotta read between the lines with him or he'll sneak up on ya. Stick around, you'll see fer shur. Took pitchers of a NORVEL being tortured, posted 'em here and made fun of it. Yep, you'll see soon enuf.

AndyW

My Feedback: (1)

Sad but possibly true, one day.

Imagine if Norvel didn't exist. Where would 1/2A be today? And don't forget that there's the VA .049 RC too. We're lucky that these folks are around.

But there's just something about Cox engines that, despite being over 50 years old, they still have a modern, very appealing look to them. Now, if they were updated with modern fits and metallurgy, they just might give the Russkies a run for their money.

aviti

My Feedback: (54)

I fondly remember messing with cox engines years ago. They were a lot of fun and I'm sure still are for many guys. Unfortunately the arguement between Norvel and Cox isn't nearly as significant as the threat of electrics. This is what will be the demise of Cox eventually if anything. I would never in present day touch a Cox engine. The only folks who do are the ones who either can't afford the electric gear (kids for example) or ones who just plain like fiddling with their Cox engines more than they like flying! Just kidding on the second part but you have to admit they are tempermental. Once brushless electrics and Lipo's get a bit cheaper, the only reason to play with a Cox engine will be nostalgia (or maybe you miss that ear piercing noise and a slimy airplane).

No offense to the Cox lovers, just suggesting that if you enjoy them, you should slowly stock up on them while they are available. Good luck.

BMatthews

Yep, that would be us. As for tempermental some of my most reliable engines are Cox 049's. There are a couple of tricks to learn but once I learned them I've never failed to have easy and reliable starts and runs from any Cox engine.

The one in my Texaco model has been living inside it's cowling for almost a decade now. It only gets run about 3 or 4 days a summer and sits the rest of the time. To blow it clean I open the needle valve an extra turn and add a quick pressure shot to the end of the fill to squirt through any clogging oil. Prime flip and I've got noise within seconds.

Now getting them to run the RIGHT way can be a challenge if you're not using a spring starter.

obxflyer

My Feedback: (6)

I usually don't stir the pot, but I have been looking at electric kits to convert to Cox glow power. They are all ready lighten and need only a little reinforcement in the nose to carry the engine. There is a little re-working of the controls and you have a nice light flyer. My son demand one to bring to College. It was the right size for the dorm, needed limited equipment, and was able to fly in a small area. SO, AH! to the electrics

Bill C

bsindel

To me, electric motors are the arf form of IC engine power. That is, if you don't want to aquire
the skills of operating miniature internal combustion engines just buy an electric motor, and you
are all set to fly. It is the same with ARF models, if you don't want to learn how to build, just
buy an ARF and you are all set. I predict that the next development will be an electronic flight
controlller upgrade for your transmitter that will fly your airplane for you. This way all you have
to do switch on the plane and xmtr and you can watch your airplane fly itself. No skill required!!

This may not be a bad thing. People may get bored just watching their airplane go through all its
preprogrammed manoevers and wonder just what it would take to actually do them themselves.
With that sort of an attitude, who knows what would happen next. They might even try to build one.

Tongue firmly inserted in cheek.
Bill S. (The other Bill)

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

RIGHT ON BILL! Couldn't have said it any better. You know, I just deleted 15 minutes worth of ranting about why I think ARFs are so appealing to the masses now. It would only come off as "bitter old man rhetoric", so let's just say you get out of life what you put in to it, and that goes for this hobby too.

DICKEYBIRD

Pretty sage advice there C/P!

Bill, I never thought about electric motors as being ARF power but you're absolutely right! I don't want to belittle those folks that won't have anything but electrics but it seems to me that a huge part of the satisfaction in this hobby is solving the problems that come up along the path to a completed dream project. To each his own though!

propbuster

My Feedback: (1)

My Cox engines may be finicky at times, but they sure won't start up by accident. I heard a story of a guy who had his electric powerd plane on his work bench and somehow he accidently switched on the motor, the plane came screaming across the table, hit him, and tore up his shop![X(] Not going to happen to me!

Andrew

Like many of you, I read some of the electric forums. I like the electric scale simply because their building techniques and weight containment are similar to 1/2A and there are some quality aircraft being constructed. OTOH, the some of the other electric folks seem much less tolerant of IC than vise versa -- theirs are better, quieter, cleaner, who would want to fly IC, etc. I've never fully understood why one group in a broad based hobby feels to need to belittle another group. The 1/2A forum is about as congenial as it gets, but some of the others are constant flame wars.

E-burners have made great strides in power and duration and to some extent noise abatement -- but, Bipe Flyer posted a video where electric was almost, if not as noisey as an IC. However, I like the noise and smell and don't mind cleanup -- it's part of the hobby I like. As DB said, getting an engine to run well is a challange, not an aggrevation.

So, to each his own.

kuzikood

My Feedback: (2)

you know ive always been an electric guy but ill tell you ...nothing beats the scream of a twin engine sportin a pair of black widow .049's wizzin round your head in a circle.................nothing........(my dad used to have a old control line p-61 and he let me fly it a couple times till i got dizy tracking that beast and fell down and nearly lost the plane in the dirt) ahh memmories

-kuzi-

Clean

Do you have a DB measurement on that electric? I know prop noise is pretty intense and the whine of a speed controller can be loud too BUT I've heard the claim 'my 26 4 stroke is much quiter than that Noisy FAI 15 of yours' He said that loud and long, till I buzzed his flying over the center of the runway constantly while people wanted to land, putting around rear end at full tilt boogey on my electrostreak. Never heard me coming, didn't hear me leave. All you could hear was the noise from his slightly over idle mini Kadet Senior's engine.

Big props are noisey, but with IC motors turning them, they are noisier still.

I understand the knowing on how to make those Cox suckers run well. And I understand the mindset. I know folks that KNOW Fox 35's and run them almost exclusively. The Cox engine doesn't have a way to mount an effective muffler and one could not be incorporated. Those rings don't cut the cake. You CAN get a throttle for them, or could and I hear it was effective. For all out, running performance, FF CL or RC the Cox would be fine as is. More modern applications and it needs a redesign. That's not gonna happen with Cox. Too bad, but it's like the Fox 35. If they changed it too much it'd be a different engine. As is, I think the OS 40 muffler fits it now. Same thing with the Cox, if they changed it too much, it'd be A NORVEL!!!

And when everything is swapped over to cheap, quite, reliable electric. I'll miss the smell and sound of Castor.

I enjoy ARF's, scratch builts, kitbuilts, etc. etc. I'll never understand modelers that look down on other modelers. Except for those freaks that fly helicopters. Helicopters, the spore of demons!

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Here's a simple test to tell which direction you should take in the hobby, glow or electric. If you are the kind of guy who is INFURIATED if it took 36 seconds to get your BIG MAC, then you better choose electric. If you get a CHUCKLE out of the pimple faced kid at the drive thru who is apologizing profusely, because it took 36 seconds for you to get your burger, then glow should be right up your alley.

AndyW

My Feedback: (1)

Mr. Clean,

Yes, it would take a redesign but it wouldn't take away from the attractive, modern look that we love. Imagine a cylinder with three bypass ports and one exhaust port. The exhaust port would have a header for a bolt on muffler. The cylinder, instead of being screwed into the case, would have a flange with four bolt holes to engage similar, threaded holes in the case. This cylinder would be cast aluminum with a chromed bore. The piston would be hard anodized aluminum and use proper circlips. And the rod would be aluminum. Done this way, I'd venture that it would blow the doors off of the vodka burners. And look damn attractive too.

Or if that black, jugs look, is what you like, that could be had by hard anodizing the cylinder ala Norvel, colourize it black and run a nickle plated piston.

And no, it won't happen with Cox, but the Chinese could build them at half the price. Well, I can wish.

Bipe Flyer

Here's a noise comparison. The first video is of a Bipe Stik with a Thunder Tiger .07 swinging an APC 7X3 prop. The second is a Junior Falcon with a Mega Motor 16/15/5 on a 4 Cell Li-Po pack and the same APC 7X3 prop. The prop was taken from the Bipe Stik and put onto the Junior Falcon because the electric prop was flopping all over the place at high RPMs. The Junior Falcon actually has more power than the rather gutless TT .07, but it's one of those "full throttle for no more than 15 seconds or something will catch on fire" setups. On a 3 cell Li-Po it is comparable.
Both videos were shot with the same camera.

You be the judge.

[link=http://donatelli.net/bipestik/bipestik.wmv]Bipe Stik[/link]
[link=http://www.missionwings.com/videos/JR%20Falcon.wmv]Junior Falcon[/link]

PS,
Regardless of which power system, both planes are a lot of fun to fly.

Clean

Great comparision. A gutless wonder on muffler swingin a prop at 10grand maybe against an arc welder. Geeze, I wonder what is going to be louder? Here's an idea, how about one of those 1/3 scale ships with a 24 inch prop against a TeeDee .010?

Modern look? Have you looked at Bleroit's plane that he flew across the channel? His engine looks like a larger version of a multiple cylinder Cox engine. Now how modern is that?

Don't look at me like that! I bought my share of product engines 2 months ago. It's still my engine of choice on a Charybdis. I've got half A projects on the board for Cox engines. Also have some for Norvel. Still working on going fast for cheap with Deltas right now though and that's not presently 1/2A. I think the next thing out will be a GLH or DirtyBirdy .010. I have both of these suckers sitting in the rafters. Isn't it great to be getting the building bug again?

Gotta clean off the bench though, two days in a row of nasty weather makes me want to put the car in the garage.

AndyW

My Feedback: (1)

Just goes to show you, modern in 1911, modern in 2005. Thanks for making my point

But seriously, look at the Fox .049, designed to compete with the TD. Next is an altered TD of mine but you can see the difference. The Fox is butt ugly like most Fox engines but all engines of the day looked like that,,, except Cox.

BTW, the Fox does 19K on 25% fuel and a 6 X 3 black Tornado prop. Not too shabby. The problem is/was that when I bought the two of them, it was my intention to install a throttle and muffler. The throttle, very difficult, the muffler, impossible. So I gave up. At least the Cox you could work with.

tag-RCU

My Feedback: (1)

Where can you get the Fox .049? I'd even take a good used one (hint, hint) if someone had one to sell!

Tom