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1/2A 150ish Build

Old 09-26-2005, 04:27 PM
  #1  
cwrr5
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Default 1/2A 150ish Build

Finally got home from the desert, and got started on Pt Ulmer's 150ish plan. So far, I've printed the plans out, and assembled them the hard way with scotch tape, x-acto knife, and lots of patience. (next time I'll get them printed right @ kinko's or something).
Also kind of took "inventory" the other day, and decided that I needed some more balsa(especially tri-stock), so I paid a visit to the LHS. Any excuse will work!

Here's a couple of shots of the plan "building" process. Had to quit for the night to entertain my "crewchief". More to follow tomorrow.
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Old 09-26-2005, 04:40 PM
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ptulmer
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Default RE: 1/2A 150ish Build

Hey DUDE! Glad you got home OK! Keep the "crewchief" happy and you can make more trips to the hobby shop.
Old 09-26-2005, 05:06 PM
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cwrr5
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Default RE: 1/2A 150ish Build

Thanks! Loooong trip... my arms are real tired from all that flying!

Not so much have to keep my crewchief happy(aka: not so little anymore helper), gotta keep his mom happy for the hobby shop trips.

Trying to decide what to put in the nose of this one....(no electric this time-I promise!!!) I figure either a throttled Norvell .049 or a maybe one of the Cox "special cheapie" 049s(If I can get one to run) would be just about perfect for this one. Any thoughts on this engine-airframe match?
Probably going to use most of a GWS flight pack for radio gear, and I might have a small nimh pack stashed away somewhere - just gotta dig for it. Also thought about a small Lipo, but that might be a little excessive for this one I think.
Old 09-26-2005, 05:50 PM
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ptulmer
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Default RE: 1/2A 150ish Build

My small understanding of the lipo's is the 3.7volts is barely on the threshold of working. Too scary for me!

Cheapie Cox, Norvel or a good electric should ALL work fine. An .061 is getting excessive...

(Ahem, misunderstood who the "crewchief" was...)
Old 09-26-2005, 06:20 PM
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gcedillo
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Default RE: 1/2A 150ish Build

Where to get plans?.
Old 09-26-2005, 07:00 PM
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cwrr5
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Default RE: 1/2A 150ish Build

OOOPS! Sorry, forgot to mention that. You can get the .pdf version either from Patrick, aka: ptulmer, or I can email them to you also. Here's the .jpg version, which doesn't scale to full size too good, but gives you a general idea. This is actually sort of a continuation of the "too ugly?" thread, for a 1/2A trainer using an Ace simple series(based) wing, with the outline of a Cessna 150 in mind(sorta).

Hopefully, once I get one built(for an example), Patrick might put them up on his website... ????
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Old 09-26-2005, 07:02 PM
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cwrr5
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Default RE: 1/2A 150ish Build

Pt, "crewchief" not to be confused with "commander-in-chief".
Both of which make up the "pit crew" LOL!
Old 09-26-2005, 09:37 PM
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ptulmer
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Default RE: 1/2A 150ish Build

[sm=lol.gif] Gotcha!

Yeah, you're the guinea pig for this one. gcedillo, if you want the plans in pdf, pm either on of us. The plans are complete, but unfinished. Not laid out to my satisfaction at least. When one is finished and flown, it'll go up on my site. If you want some free and already proven plans check www.ulmer-rc.com
Old 09-28-2005, 10:38 PM
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Default RE: 1/2A 150ish Build

Ok, I finally sat down and really looked the plans over, and made a list of materials (below) if it helps anyone. I gotta go shopping again tomorrow.

Bill of Materials (build plane with stuff- ug!)
====================================
1/4"x1/4"x17-3/4" balsa for wing leading edge, trailing edge (4)
1/4"x1/8"x17-3/4" spruce(or hardwood) for main wing spars (4)
1/2"x36" tri-stock for forward fuselage corners (2)
1/4"x36" tri-stock for fuselage corners (3)
1/16"x1/2"x17-3/4" balsa for wing trailing edge sheeting (4)
1/8"x1-1/8" dowel for wing leading edge hold-down thingy (1)
1/8"x3"x36" balsa sheet for tail and horizontal stab (1 maybe 2)
1/16"x4"x36" balsa sheet for fuselage sides, fuselage and wing sheeting (3)
1/8"x2"x2" plywood for firewall (1)
1/16"x2-1/2"x3-9/16" ( <= huh?!?! ) plywood for F1 former (1)
1/16"x2-1/2"x3-1/4" plywood for F2 former (1)
1/8"x1/8"x17-3/4" balsa for wing stringers (4)
3/32"x4"x36" balsa sheet for wing ribs (1)
1/4"x1/4"x2-1/2" hardwood for fuselage servo beam mount (2)
1/8" hard balsa or ply scrap dihedral gauge (see plans) (1)
3/16"x4" balsa sheet (optional for wingtips - see my comments below)

That's it for the wood, did I miss anything?
Old 09-28-2005, 11:06 PM
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cwrr5
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Default RE: 1/2A 150ish Build

I also have a few questions, comments, and observations about the plan so far (I love being the guinea pig! )
Some of this may seem way too picky(even by my standards), but may help someone just getting started building (this is a trainer, right?) Patrick, please don't take these comments the wrong way - it's all meant to be constructive, and to make a better plan. There's a lot of things you don't see until sitting down to actually start building.

- When printing the plans from the .pdf file, all the horizontal sheets line up right, but don't match vertically. Could it just be my printer, and/or margins? Can anyone else duplicate this? No biggie, just means I'll be building without a top view. Do you have this in autocad format also? (.dxf .dwg etc)

- What is the wingspan actually supposed to be? I measured the plans(vert. and horizontal to be sure), all the dimensions (1/8", 1/16", 1/4", etc) are correct, but the plans wingspan is 35-9/16". If you were to add 3/16" wingtips, it would bring the w/s up to a nice even 36" and give some extra support against twisting from center to tip. Thin(chordwise) wings seem to be more suceptible to this for some reason. Then you can easily add typical cessna style "droopy" tips too.

- The F1 fuselage former doesn't show a hole for the wing hold-down dowel, it would also be nice to have a centerline marked on the plans, and the fuselage formers to help line everything up.

- The 1/16" balsa sheeting isn't labeled on the fuselage side view. Also, the 1/8" balsa for the horizontal stab and elevator isn't marked.

- The 1/4"x1/4" servo mount rails in the fuselage aren't called out on the plan(but they are shown).

- No detail shown for installing the aileron servo, and no structure to attach it to except balsa sheeting. The location of the servo isn't shown on the top view of the wing.

- There's not enough material for the aileron torque rods to attach/insert into, unless the ailerons themselves are "beefed up" somehow. I'm still thinking this one over... possibly use thinner material for the torque rods...?

Other than these few minor things, it looks great... I'm cutting wood for it, and will probably start the actual construction tomorrow.
Old 09-29-2005, 12:26 AM
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combatpigg
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Default RE: 1/2A 150ish Build

When it comes to scratch building, there are certain benefits you have that kit builders' don't. First of all, you aren't locked in to following some pre punched design feature that makes the allignment of the finished product hyper critical, because as a scratch builder, you have the ultimate control in how the final product joins together and lines up. Take for example the wing hold down dowel, if there is any misallignment in the prepunched parts, the end result will be a loose and off kilter job. As a scratch builder, you have the freedom to line the adjoining parts up as squarely as you know how, and run a drill bit through the whole works, the end result will be perfection, which is good enough for most of us. Only GOD will know that your wing, by design was 35 47/64" and that you took the liberty to move the tip ribs out to make it come out at 36" even. The critical allignments and measurements should NOT be taken as gospel from any plan, just a guideline. You are still the one who should first make sense of what the designer is trying to accomplish, then layout your own cut lines, and formulate your own build sequence. The plans' main value is that the designer has a layout that will balance out with the indicated gear, the indicated gear will fit, the RTF weight will be what the builder desires and the final flight characteristics will be something akin to what the builder is seeking.

Now for the torque rod area, the only "beef "you need is the exact thickness of the torque rod itself. Use light weight glass cloth and medium CA to bridge the gap that is created when you knife into the wing to set your torque rods in place. You should glass this area top and bottom anyway, to provide some strength and spread the load for the wing hold down screws. The latest method to support the rods where you grease the rods and imbed them in puddles of glue sounds like a winner. I don't think 1/2A torque rods should be any lighter than 2-56. The longer you make them, the whippier [and whimpier] they get. Most scratch builders have so many pet ways to mount servos and other details, like hatch building, etc., that it is an exercise in futility for the designer to draw this stuff in. It kills me how many times I've indicated on a plan where the cg should go, only to have inquiries come in from time to time about where the CG should go. Indicating on a plan where the servos should go, should be enough info, there are so many different brands and sizes of servos that the final mounting details should be left up to the builder anyway.

To wrap up my thoughts about this, none of these designs were written by the hand of GOD, so there is lots of room for improvisation and personal judgement. By giving yourself a slightly longer leash for decision making and giving yourself some credit for being able to think through the steps that it takes to make a box, a wing, and fit them together, you'll enjoy the build process more because you won't be too concerned about figuring out the details that were in PATRICKs' head, you can just take the basic dimensions and layout provided and run with it. An industrial design teacher used to say to me when I got hung up on some minutia, "CHUCK, you're looking at the pebbles and not the beach"
Old 09-29-2005, 09:16 AM
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ptulmer
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Default RE: 1/2A 150ish Build

ORIGINAL: combatpigg
...........The plans' main value is that the designer has a layout that will balance out with the indicated gear, the indicated gear will fit, the RTF weight will be what the builder desires and the final flight characteristics will be something akin to what the builder is seeking.
Weeeell, This one was drawn using "empirical data". Thus the need for a guinea pig. CP, that's alot of good advice.

cwrr5, keep "nit picking". The plans are NOT finished. You're 100% right about finding the piddly stuff on the first build. Whether or not this thing will ever be called "trainer" will be up to you. The "150ish" was started about the same time Bipe posted his trainer. His filled the need for a 1/2a trainer nicely. so after awhile I got the idea for making it sure-start size. It was reborn under the idea of a possible high wing sporty type. I REALLY don't know what the final result will be. If it's about a pound AUW, it may be an OK trainer. If it's less.... At any rate, keep posting the tidbits. The Bill-of-materials will be really handy.

For the torque rods, consider burying them in epoxy. You can sink a 2-56 rod in some pretty thin stuff and it's stronger than any other method I've tried.
Old 09-29-2005, 02:54 PM
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cwrr5
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Default RE: 1/2A 150ish Build

Cool, thanks for the thoughts CP! And I agree with everything you had to say, just offering my observations, with a beginner in mind, not necessarily me. I can get just about anything to fly(and have!)

The latest method to support the rods where you grease the rods and imbed them in puddles of glue sounds like a winner...
Hey! good idea - I'll give that a try!

Whether or not this thing will ever be called "trainer"...
It was reborn under the idea of a possible high wing sporty type.
Ok, "sporty trainer" it is!
Old 09-29-2005, 06:19 PM
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cwrr5
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Default RE: 1/2A 150ish Build

Got some wood cut, and assembled the "kit", except for the spars which I'll pick up tomorrow. Still gotta cut all the balsa, then I'll probably start construction on the wing. I'm going to add landing gear due to the rough(for small planes) conditions at the field. Still thinking that one over. I also added a centerline and the location for the wing dowel hole on the F1 former, and rounded the corners inside the F1 and F2 formers(distributes the load more better, less prone to crack under stress). Cut dihedral gauge from scrap lite-ply.
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Old 10-03-2005, 06:49 PM
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cwrr5
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Default RE: 1/2A 150ish Build

Too much stuff going on all at once! Went flying all day yesterday instead of spending some time building like I had originally intended to do, and have put some serious work into some other projects before I got around to actually getting anything done on the 150ish today.

Got the fuselage formers finished up, and cut the rest of the parts for the "kit", except the fuselage bottom and ailerons. Still thing over landing gear.... I think I'm going to try to find a nice big grassy spot ( not easy here ) to test fly before I start making any changes.
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Old 10-03-2005, 06:54 PM
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cwrr5
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Default RE: 1/2A 150ish Build

I changed my mind on the sequence of building, and decided to start with the fuselage. After cutting out the fuselage bottom, and marking the locations for the formers and a centerline, I added the 1/8" ply firewall, making sure that it's square to the "floor". Added formers "F1" and "F2", and squared them as the glue dried. Using CA for most of the fuselage, probably will return to wood glue shortly as I'm really not liking the fumes all of a sudden. [&o]
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Old 10-03-2005, 06:58 PM
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cwrr5
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Default RE: 1/2A 150ish Build

Next I added the 1/2" tri-stock to the bottom nose section, squeezed in tight for a good joint to the firewall and "F1" former. Continued adding 1/4" tri-stock all the way back to the "pointy" part.
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Old 10-03-2005, 07:03 PM
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cwrr5
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Default RE: 1/2A 150ish Build

After the glue set, I adjusted the outside edge of the tri-stock, particularly right around former "F2", where there's a fairly sharp bend for the fuselage sides going back to the tail. The sanding block is a couple of pieces of scrap balsa with 150 grit CA'ed to it. Also noticed that I screwed up just ever so slightly on the angled cut at the rear of the fuselage, and left a 1/16" gap between the two pieces of tri-stock. Not a big deal, but irritating.
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Old 10-03-2005, 07:09 PM
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cwrr5
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Default RE: 1/2A 150ish Build

Next step after a quick look down the length of the fuselage(to check alignment), is to add the 1/16" balsa sheet sides. I started attaching the sides between F1 and F2, glued to the formers and the tri-stock.
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Old 10-03-2005, 07:14 PM
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Default RE: 1/2A 150ish Build

Once the sides were dry, I pulled in the fuselage sheeting at the nose(carefully, so as not to crack the sides going around the bend), and Ca'ed it in place, making sure to keep the bottom edge seated on the fuselage bottom. Same process with the aft fuselage sheeting, with a pretty good amount of pressure on the sides behind the F2 former while th CA set.
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Old 10-03-2005, 07:19 PM
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cwrr5
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Default RE: 1/2A 150ish Build

I started adding the foreward fuselage top 1/2" tri-stock, then ran in to the first major problem. The angles on the top of the F1 and F2 formers, which are shown as a 45 degree angle, doesn't match up with the tri-stock at the angle for the cockpit area. I'll either have to "adjust the formers, or get really creative cutting the tri-stock. Decided to quit for the night and sleep on it. [:@][&o]
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Old 10-03-2005, 08:19 PM
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ptulmer
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Default RE: 1/2A 150ish Build

Huh, you got me on that one! I wonder what the angle is...? Sorry bout that. Now you know why they don't get released until after being built.[] The formers can be used, right? The angle just needs to be deeped. I'll look into it tomorrow and see about redrawing that part. Do me one teeny-tiny favor and keep track of the amount removed. Or just measure the depth from the bottom after it's set in. Never hurts to double check!

See, I'm not perfect, just damn good looking.
Old 10-03-2005, 08:21 PM
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ptulmer
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Default RE: 1/2A 150ish Build

BTW, you're making that thing look pretty darn good! I'm starting to see what the end product will look like. This may make it onto the board soon.
Old 10-03-2005, 10:14 PM
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Default RE: 1/2A 150ish Build

This thing shapes up really fast - so far except for the angle glitch it's been fast and easy. [sm=thumbup.gif]
I totally missed the cutouts for the tri-stock when I went over the plans with a fine-tooth comb, and AGAIN when I cut the formers! Doh! [:@] ( )
It shouldn't be too much of a problem, I mainly had to stop for the night because my "helper" had just gotten home. He loves to play with and "fix" small airplanes - a little too much sometimes.

I'll probably cut another former(s) from scrap in the morning as a mockup, then just progressively change the angle until it works. And then of course, scan it and send it to you (I assume you can scale it as needed ).

Got a color scheme in mind already: cream, deep red, and orange ultracote in cessna-ish styling(sorta). The color combo looks nice on the rolls, we'll see....
Old 10-04-2005, 08:52 AM
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Default RE: 1/2A 150ish Build

I made a "mockup" of the center fuselage section and cut new F1 and F2 formers from balsa to get the angle right for the 1/2" tri-stock. I glued the tristock to the fuse side mockup, and gradually changed the angle with a sanding block, and got it really close(good enough to fit tight). The F1 and F2 formers should be beveled at the top to match the angle of the tri-stock.
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