Hydro Junkie

As you can probably tell, I'm normally a boat builder, primarilly scale hydroplanes. Several years ago, however, I was given two kits, the 32.75" spanned Hellcat and 36" spanned 172 Skyhawk. I have finally gotten around to openning up the Hellcat, but decided I want to go R/C on both planes. Besides using a Norvel .061 or .074 and micro radio gear, is there anything else I need to do/change to convert these into 4 channel aircraft. I'm assuming the landing gear will need to be beefed up, but beyond that, I'm lost. Any help or advice would be most welcome.

lildiesel

It was difficult enough to do a good job of putting a pulse receiver and an actuator in a Guillow kit way back when. I think you'll find yourself re-engineering the kit a lot to handle the loads of modern R/C flight and finding a way to get a servo/receiver tray and battery box into the fuselage with decent access. You'll need good firewall to take a radial mounted engine and a couple of rails from it going back to behind the trailing edge to support the servo tray and battery box.

If you must try this, start with the Cessna and think about it as a very sedately flying R/C assisted freeflight.

Good luck.



ps: anyone else have some ideas to help here?

eroc144

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First, I'd recommend you do a search in this forum on "Guillows." A bunch of planes have been converted over the years and there are some excellent hints and tips (and warnings!) If you've never built or flown an RC airplane before you might want to tackle something a little easier as converting these kits can be a lot of work and requires that your building skills be quite sharp. I'm converting the Guillow's Zero to RC right now, and it is definitely a labor of love. I've posted a few pictures in my gallery if you want to check them out. Some General tips are:

1. Guillows balsa is notoriously bad. You should either cut the parts from a better grade of balsa or reinforce the formers.
2. You'll need to reinforce the engine and wing areas to withstand the higher forces you'll get from an engine. I used 1/32 and 1/16 plywood on the main spars and formers.
3. I tossed the 1/16" stringers that came with the kit and am using spruce. It's slightly heavier but much stronger.
4. Consider planking the wing and the fuselage area around the engine and wing. It does add more weight but if you're using a .061 you have some wiggle room.
5. Use micro equipment. Probably won't get much more than a 1 oz tank, a 270 mah battery and 2 - 3 servos.
6. Consider eliminating the landing gear altogther. Belly landings are pretty common for 1/2a planes, and since 1/2a wheels are pretty small they have a tendancy to "stick' in the grass on takeoffs and landings anyway. If you really want to put it in, then you'll need to replace the wing spar with plywood and should notch the leading edge so the surrounding wing ribs are firmly locked in place.
7. Plan plan plan! Make sure you know where all the electronics and pushrods will be located before you start gluing. There's not much room for error.

Have fun!

eroc

BMatthews

Forget the 074 for starters. Unless you modify the kits heavily to take the extra power without folding in flight the 074 will have far too much power for either of these models. And if you DO reinforce to that extent then they will be so heavy that they won't be fun to fly. The Skylane may take an 074 and not be TOO heavy from the mods that would be needed but it'll fly more like a WW2 fighter and still have a very hot landing speed.

If you do try the Wildcat for an 061 then stick to hand launch and aileron, elevator and throttle only. It'll provide at least a fighting chance of coming out light enough to fly well. In fact with enough mods that would pretty much totally change the wing design it could be make to fly quite well.

Other than that my own feelings about converted Guillow kits will show up in a Search.

combatpigg

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The real value that a GUILLOWS kit has for me, is that they have provided the plans and outlines to assist in building a working model that looks scale. Only a masochist would build a working glow powered model from all of those little bits and pieces though. Too much work and definitely the slow boat to CHINA. For the normal flight loads that an .061 can dish out, the wings are strong enough. Forget about sheeting the wing, a good covering job adds lots of strength. I would not use any tough stringy wood in the wing kit except for the spars, and they could actually be medium weight. The fuselage wood should be left in the box, and a simple sheet fuselage can be built, using the stock formers as your "station bucks". The formers should actually be made from cross grained 1/16" balsa "plywood" that you make. Most of the fuselage [skin] can be made from 3/32" light weight balsa. If you break down the fuselage into its' most basic shapes, you will eliminate a lot stick building headaches and end up with a pretty resilient structure. The tail surfaces should be made from light weight 1/8" balsa, and leave those [built up tail]sticks in the box too. I have heard that GUILLOWS builds incidence angles into some of their kits that favor rubber powered free flight, a little glow model with the engines' thrust line near the vertical CG needs no angles built in [anywhere] to fly right. After flight tests, you might find a problem that a couple of washers could solve, but generally speaking, 0-0-0 has worked well for me.

eroc144

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CP you cut me to the quick - a masochist? Then again, I've been called worse by more than a few...

eroc

combatpigg

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EROC, I've built them the old school way too, but it is more work and less reward than the sheet method, at least for me. The video from my last years' contest entry shows how resillient the sheet planes are [and still scale enough for me].

eroc144

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Actually, I'm with you on the sheet siding. I had a 4 month consulting gig in Sacramento and had a lot of time to kill in the evenings so I took on the Guillows Zero conversion project. I knew it would be a huge challenge, which was the point all along!

combatpigg

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4 months in SACTO? I would have been killing more than just time there, probably a few bottles of NIGHT TRAIN too! In the old days before they built the I-80 overpass that flies over down town, they used to make all traffic go through the dregs of that city. I'll bet that place had more bail bondsmen than it had gas stations! It might be different now, but back then it was a good place to keep the windows rolled up and the doors locked.

Working on a GUILLOWS kit in SACRAMENTO to make time go by easily.....hmm......there must be an EINSTEIN joke in there somewhere?

Silvaire

My Feedback: (50)

Sacto?

You'll find one of the best hobby shops anywhere there though. RC Country is huge, has knowledgable people, and very competetive prices too. They also have an incredible swap meet twice a year - one in spring and one in fall. No charge to buy or to sell or any registration formalities, and there were maybe 100 sellers at the last one. I thought I got there good and early at about 4:30am at the last fall swap, but the place was already packed. One of the sellers said he parked his motorhome in the street next to the parking lot, and was woken up around midnight with folks starting to set up. Now that's a serious swap meet, and it's well worth your while if you can make it. I think the next one is in March or April.

(Sorry, I couldn't let CP badmouth Sacramento without mentioning something really worthwhile there. Now feel free to go back to discussing trying to do the impractical though possibly barely possible with the nearly worthless model airplane kits that have driven more people away from getting further involved in this hobby than any other line of kits!)

Arlen

eroc144

My Feedback: (1)

Yes, I got to know RC Country Hobby very well while I was there, and it's everything you said and more. Best d**n hobby shop I've ever been in, bar none. I flew back home to PA on the weekends so I had to miss the Fall swap. I bought the very exciting and see if you really have the skills not only to build the rubber-to-RC conversion from scratch but then actually fly the sucker Guillows Zero kit there as well.

:^)

Sacto has obviously changed a lot since CP was there - I found some decent restaurants and lots of flat open fields to fly my DNU (the picture on my profile was taken at the Natomas HS parking lot which was close to my apt - used the rental car's 12v battery for the starter, 2 D batteries for the glow plug, paper towels for the castor...). Of course the City office that we worked out of was in one of the dicier parts of town.

eroc

combatpigg

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HI ARLEN! "SGT SACTO" was a kids' show host on channel 13 way back when. We had a coal stove heated cottage in MEADOW VISTA [near AUBURN] and the SACRAMENTO station was "it" for us. I don't doubt that SACRAMENTO has grown up quite a bit since then, one of the nicest movie theaters [UNITED ARTISTs'] I"ve ever been in is there, PLUSH and comfortable. The complete overpassing of skid row [ with interstate 80] was kind of a surprise, after not being through there for 20 years! A big treat for us back then was to stop by the FOOD CIRCUS and,"EAT LIKE AN ELEPHANT FOR PEANUTS" It was at the CAL EXPO FAIRGROUNDS, is it still there?

eroc144

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Yup, the fairgrounds are still there and are alive and well. I did some hiking and fishing on the N branch of the American River and passed through the Auburn area. Beautiful country!

combatpigg

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Thr real debate is to decide which company has driven more folks away from the hobby and towards drinking cheap wine, COX or GUILLOWS? If memory serves correct, I once ripped the engine off a GUILLOWS AIRACOBRA with just the torque of a COX spring starter. I think GUILLOWS should place a parental advisory label on the box that says something like: WARNING: THIS KIT HAS BEEN KNOWN TO CAUSE PERMANENT LOSS OF ENTHUSIASM FOR THE HOBBY! Once you clear the GUILLOWS hurdle, than you have to take on the COX CHALLENGE. Anyone with enough intestinal fortitude to force a successful experience out of this equipment should be entitled to some kind of certificate of achievement and maybe honorable mention in a special wing at the AMA HALL OF FAME? Guys who have mastered the sticks and tissue planes with the slimy little oil sprayer up front share a common bond, a shared respect, and most of them seem to have that, "1000 YARD STARE".

piper_chuck

My Feedback: (12)

HJ, welcome to the wonderful world of planes. My advice on the Guillows kits is to build them as display models, or sell them. If you want to fly small planes look through this forum for ideas on a high wing trainer type plane. You've got enough boat building experience that you should be fine building a plane from plans.

eroc144

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piper chuck reminds us that we've hijacked the original post.

... but these comments about Guillows and Cox ring o-so-true! When I was a kid I remember my Dad giving his Cox engine the shot put treatment after an hour of unsuccessful starting attempts. I did a similar thing last year and have since migrated to the relative calm of Norvel and AP. And how many of us remember staring at the so called die-cut accuracy of the Guillows kits? Or the frequency with which the stringers would break when being assembled, or the wonderful tissue quality, or...

Then again these kits did build a lot of character, and when I assembled my first Sig kit I distincly remember thinking that I was in heaven. Ah, those childhood memories!

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

GUILLOWS THREADS have a way of meandering from hijacker to hijacker.....especially when advice is sollicited .

If I were to build one now, as completely "out of the box" as possible, I would remake all the balsa formers from 2 plys of 1/16" balsa, cross grained, and use spruce stringers, at least where strength is needed. Then just use balsa fill between the first couple rows of stringers behind the firewall, leading down [or up ] to the leading edge of the wing. I would never use landing gear on a WWII warbird, because it detracts from performance, is more stressfull than belly landings on grass, and look stupid while hanging down from a fighter plane that is doing a full speed strafing run at the field!

eroc144

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Yeah, nothing worse than spending all that time getting the danged machine guns and ammo installed just to look stupid on a strafing run 'cause your wheels are down.

RobinB66

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Actually I have the guillows skyhawk and was gona make it rc! What I was wondering is if it is possible too take plaster of paris, vaseline the heck out of the plastic parts so they do not stick and make molds for fiberglass, too offset any pieces bieng broken seeing as how you can't buy the plastic parts for guillows kits anymore? I had intended to take the parts coat vasiline on both sides and place the bubble side down ina box filled with plaster of paris and fill theother side in, let it dry and eremove the mold. Then just coat it with shellack or lacker a thin coat and vuala instant fiberglass molds!
Later !!
RobinB!![>:]

BMatthews

You got the right idea Robin but it's "Voila" with an accent off the a which I'm not going to bother finding... You'll have to play with some various finishes or mold releases for the plaster but you don't need to use vaseline or anything else for making the first plaster mold. The plastic will pop right out of the plaster or Ultracal. It's the epoxy and glass going into the plaster mold after that where the problems start.