Prepping A NORVEL, for BREAK-IN.
01-07-2006, 12:08 PM
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Prepping A NORVEL, for BREAK-IN.
I was going to wash out , a new 0.074" with Alcohol last night,and put the castor oil in, for the 24hour cure.When I took the backplate off ,I saw, what looked like Casting Sand(blackish colored).I`m not certain for sure,what that crap is..Regardless,I decided Sloshing Alcohol around in the crankcase won`t satisfy me ,as a "GOOD CLEANING"..I removed the carb,the cyl.head,and Cylinder bolts..I tried to slide the cylinder out of the block, but it dosen`t want to,just slide off..Are these parts, a size on size fit?? Do I need a touch of Heat,or is it, just a little stubborn ,and needs a bit of a Crowbar, put on it.??
..I don`t want to mangle things, with the BIGGER HAMMER method.[X(]Anybody want to tell me, what their procedure was/is ,for getting the cylinder off,with NO damage?? Thanks DAVE B.
..I don`t want to mangle things, with the BIGGER HAMMER method.[X(]Anybody want to tell me, what their procedure was/is ,for getting the cylinder off,with NO damage?? Thanks DAVE B.
01-07-2006, 01:03 PM
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RE: Prepping A NORVEL, for BREAK-IN.
Well if it's gonna take all of that to prep a little engine I better call my LHS and put a hold on my back order for mine. By the time I'm done tearing it appart I'm sure I'll end up with more parts than what I started with
01-07-2006, 01:37 PM
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RE: Prepping A NORVEL, for BREAK-IN.
Dave, is that .074 new to you or brand new from the store?
Flybug, I just do a flying break-in. Never noticed a decrease in performance or otherwise. Some folks just like the extra insurance of a bench break-in and others just go to extremes.
Flybug, I just do a flying break-in. Never noticed a decrease in performance or otherwise. Some folks just like the extra insurance of a bench break-in and others just go to extremes.
01-07-2006, 01:45 PM
#4
RE: Prepping A NORVEL, for BREAK-IN.
No wonder your Norvels aren't putting out the proper power, PT.
Dave,
It should slide right out. Will it move at all? If you put a prop on it and try to turn it over it should pop the cyl loose.
Dave,
It should slide right out. Will it move at all? If you put a prop on it and try to turn it over it should pop the cyl loose.
01-07-2006, 02:34 PM
#5
RE: Prepping A NORVEL, for BREAK-IN.
You could turn a hair dryer on it, or drop it in a pan of scalding water, then break it down. If you are uncomfortable with the gunk, grit, etc., that the engine came with, then put the parts in a jar with a lid, fill with solvent, and duct tape it to an orbital sander. Oh ya, turn it on and run it for a few minutes. Then do a final cleaning with aerosol brake cleaner. Now oil it all up, just assemble the lower end and do a test flick with the prop. If it spins easily and comes to a gradual stop, then the lower end is loose enough. If not chuck the prop screw into a drill motor and spin the crank in an oil bath while you work the crankcase with your free hand. I try to introduce side pressure as the crank turns, to loosen it up a little. Now douche the lower end out, you might see black residue from the crank lapping. It should be ready to rock now. A 6x3 or 6x4 prop for a bench break in at a rich scream until the exhaust residue is clear, then bolt on a 7x3 and go flying! The other break in method is to do nothing, just wait for the engine to break itself in after you've run 3 quarts through it and suffered through dozens of mediocre runs at 90% power.
01-07-2006, 02:41 PM
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RE: Prepping A NORVEL, for BREAK-IN.
PT .it`s out of the box,from the store,never Run , Still smells like RUSSIA ,BRAND new ..
" It should slide right out. Will it move at all? If you put a prop on it and try to turn it over it should pop the cyl loose."
I tried that ,late last night ,and no go.I kind of thought, it shouldn`t take any more effort than ,just lifting it off....
I got it now.I just now,put my heat gun to it, for a couple seconds.Thanks .What do you suggest ,CASTOR oil,after run oil,or ENGINE Assembly lube,when putting this engine back together.I `ve got ,all these on hand..I would like to fire this engine today ,but, I can wait till tommorow too...DAVE
" It should slide right out. Will it move at all? If you put a prop on it and try to turn it over it should pop the cyl loose."
I tried that ,late last night ,and no go.I kind of thought, it shouldn`t take any more effort than ,just lifting it off....
I got it now.
I just now,put my heat gun to it, for a couple seconds.Thanks .What do you suggest ,CASTOR oil,after run oil,or ENGINE Assembly lube,when putting this engine back together.I `ve got ,all these on hand..I would like to fire this engine today ,but, I can wait till tommorow too...DAVE
01-07-2006, 02:49 PM
#7
RE: Prepping A NORVEL, for BREAK-IN.
For a lube, it's hard to beat model engine fuel with a high castor content. For the crank case parts fitting, I've used 3 in one oil, or MARVEL MYSTERY OIL, or ATF. Clean out any oils that don't homogenize with model plane fuel.
01-07-2006, 03:18 PM
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RE: Prepping A NORVEL, for BREAK-IN.
ORIGINAL: combatpigg
You could turn a hair dryer on it, or drop it in a pan of scalding water, then break it down. If you are uncomfortable with the gunk, grit, etc., that the engine came with, then put the parts in a jar with a lid, fill with solvent, and duct tape it to an orbital sander. Oh ya, turn it on and run it for a few minutes. Then do a final cleaning with aerosol brake cleaner. Now oil it all up, just assemble the lower end and do a test flick with the prop. If it spins easily and comes to a gradual stop, then the lower end is loose enough. If not chuck the prop screw into a drill motor and spin the crank in an oil bath while you work the crankcase with your free hand. I try to introduce side pressure as the crank turns, to loosen it up a little. Now douche the lower end out, you might see black residue from the crank lapping. It should be ready to rock now. A 6x3 or 6x4 prop for a bench break in at a rich scream until the exhaust residue is clear, then bolt on a 7x3 and go flying! The other break in method is to do nothing, just wait for the engine to break itself in after you've run 3 quarts through it and suffered through dozens of mediocre runs at 90% power.
You could turn a hair dryer on it, or drop it in a pan of scalding water, then break it down. If you are uncomfortable with the gunk, grit, etc., that the engine came with, then put the parts in a jar with a lid, fill with solvent, and duct tape it to an orbital sander. Oh ya, turn it on and run it for a few minutes. Then do a final cleaning with aerosol brake cleaner. Now oil it all up, just assemble the lower end and do a test flick with the prop. If it spins easily and comes to a gradual stop, then the lower end is loose enough. If not chuck the prop screw into a drill motor and spin the crank in an oil bath while you work the crankcase with your free hand. I try to introduce side pressure as the crank turns, to loosen it up a little. Now douche the lower end out, you might see black residue from the crank lapping. It should be ready to rock now. A 6x3 or 6x4 prop for a bench break in at a rich scream until the exhaust residue is clear, then bolt on a 7x3 and go flying! The other break in method is to do nothing, just wait for the engine to break itself in after you've run 3 quarts through it and suffered through dozens of mediocre runs at 90% power.
LOL AHH ha ,another use for my HUTCHINS.a SONIC CLEANER
.they give A PRETTY GOOD,Back massage too,especially ,with an 8" pad on it.I put it between my back, and a wall ,and then just lean back in to it....LOL..C.P. I`ll do that.I might as well break the burrs off all the sharp corners.IS there ANY point ,in chamfering the ports ,some sharp burrs there too .Also,burrs, on the rotary intake .I`ve got some nice, diamond impregnated, rotary tool bits, that would make a nice job on this engine.THIS Engine assembly lube I have, is for Full scale outboards ,and snowmobile engines, that I rebuild for Guys.It`s a moly lithium based product that I smear, all over the needle bearings, on the cranks before assembly in those large 2 strokes.It washes easily with their 2 stroke fuel,as the engine breaks in.I just rather ,"LOOK before I Leap", as they say..I`m sure I could just clean this engine, and run it ,AS IS,but ,I`ve got it torn down now.WHatcha Think??
01-07-2006, 04:45 PM
#9
RE: Prepping A NORVEL, for BREAK-IN.
DAVE, unless you see something that will break off, don't mess with the liner ports. They need to be razor sharp to provide crisp and definite flow interuption. How do I know this? From reading the words of FOX, WISNIEWSKI and LEE. Make sure the bottom end spins easily with the flick of your finger on the prop before assembly can continue. I have used a mixture of dry tooth paste and oil on very tight crank fits, but that is a last resort.
01-07-2006, 06:58 PM
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RE: Prepping A NORVEL, for BREAK-IN.
GUY`s what`s the reasoning of letting the Castor oil sit for a whole 24 hours.??Is there any way around that.If not I won`t be running this engine ,untill after dark tommorow..Crank is spinning pretty nice .BUT I got to clean everyting (parts )up now ..
http://media.putfile.com/NORVEL crank spinning in the block
http://media.putfile.com/NORVEL crank spinning in the block
01-07-2006, 07:04 PM
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RE: Prepping A NORVEL, for BREAK-IN.
its just what norvel recommends..I think I used motor oil on mine,,something about the material the lining is made of absorbing a small amount to help with breakin,,I've only done this with one of them,,the rest of mine are used....Rog
01-07-2006, 07:16 PM
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RE: Prepping A NORVEL, for BREAK-IN.
A person would think that once everyting is oiled .It would be oiled.Maybe Norvel is thinking ,that the oil would WEEP, further down the cylinder , to the crank, on an assembled engine ,by Capillary action ,if it just sat for 24 hours.I know these engines ,have some sort of speciality coatings on it,I would hate to fire it up this evening, just to say Whoops , after a couple ounces of fuel go through it..HMMMMMmmm what to do...
01-07-2006, 07:28 PM
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RE: Prepping A NORVEL, for BREAK-IN.
Bipe, good point! Actually, after I "figured out" that the small props worked best on my delta, I kinda stuck with them. On top of that, the only Norvel that I've ran in awhile is a .40! (blasphemy!) Well, I've put more fuel through the reedies than the .40, so I'm still cool. At the time, I compared my readings to the tach readings on Norvel's website and came very close. I really don't think the "technical" break-in is as important as they make it out to be. Their version does make it easier for them to blame YOU when something goes wrong.
01-07-2006, 07:49 PM
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RE: Prepping A NORVEL, for BREAK-IN.
WEll...THE HELL-----o with it .[>:] I`m running it,at least for an ounce, or 2 of fuel tonight ..Like I say ,if I lube up that crank ,rod, piston and,cylinder.How can the wait ,of 24 hours, make any differance .I`ll even go as far as putting my heat gun on the top end and get it hot first....I got to go walk over to the neighbours, and get my sander,and all my fuel is there too..I`ll give this engine, a washing machine cleaning, like CP does.Maybe even, take in a massage while, I`m at it .Back in an hour, I guess
Back in an hour, I guess
01-07-2006, 08:12 PM
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RE: Prepping A NORVEL, for BREAK-IN.
Dave,
Assemble the cleaned lubed motor but leave the head off, mount it, turn it till the ports are closed , fill the top of the cylinder with either motor oil or castor, then heat it with your heat gun/hairdrier ( the hot cylinder/piston assy and the now lower viscosity oil should penetrate better than cold oil for the 24hrs). Let it sit n cool, reheat it and spin it with a starter wilst hot, a burst of 100 revs , wait a few mins and hit it again (it will be cooler)
Now flush some fuel through the cylinder, put the head on connect your fuel tank, heat it with the heat gun and fire it up, then follow the run in as per the instructions. It should be as good as it gets this way.
Stewart
Assemble the cleaned lubed motor but leave the head off, mount it, turn it till the ports are closed , fill the top of the cylinder with either motor oil or castor, then heat it with your heat gun/hairdrier ( the hot cylinder/piston assy and the now lower viscosity oil should penetrate better than cold oil for the 24hrs). Let it sit n cool, reheat it and spin it with a starter wilst hot, a burst of 100 revs , wait a few mins and hit it again (it will be cooler)
Now flush some fuel through the cylinder, put the head on connect your fuel tank, heat it with the heat gun and fire it up, then follow the run in as per the instructions. It should be as good as it gets this way.
Stewart
01-07-2006, 10:01 PM
#17
RE: Prepping A NORVEL, for BREAK-IN.
Believe it or not, we were able to break-in a Norvel before the soak-for-24-and-flip-100 was invented. This process came about because some engines were EXTREMELY tight to the point they would not turn over.
Some engines will turn over if you flip it but hang up if you turn it over slowly. I think the soaking process is to lessen this. I did have one .049 or .061 a few years ago that I had to lap enough to get it over the top. Perhaps soaking would have prevented the necessity to lap.
Also, in all honesty, I have never had to clean them with solvent. I DO check for metal grit, oil them and flip them (and fondle them) before running.
My experience is limited to about a dozen Norvels so some may have much more experience with them.
I don't remember ever having one that had dark stuff inside.
George
Some engines will turn over if you flip it but hang up if you turn it over slowly. I think the soaking process is to lessen this. I did have one .049 or .061 a few years ago that I had to lap enough to get it over the top. Perhaps soaking would have prevented the necessity to lap.
Also, in all honesty, I have never had to clean them with solvent. I DO check for metal grit, oil them and flip them (and fondle them) before running.
My experience is limited to about a dozen Norvels so some may have much more experience with them.
I don't remember ever having one that had dark stuff inside.
George
01-07-2006, 10:32 PM
#18
RE: Prepping A NORVEL, for BREAK-IN.
ORIGINAL: gcb
<snip> Some engines will turn over if you flip it but hang up if you turn it over slowly.
George
<snip> Some engines will turn over if you flip it but hang up if you turn it over slowly.
George
)? My theory has been that a quick flip maintains an oil film, but a slow turn thins the film until piston/cylinder drag sets in.
01-07-2006, 11:34 PM
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RE: Prepping A NORVEL, for BREAK-IN.
Well I got the engine back together.I think I saved alot of useful life for it.used my orbital like CP said worked the crank.The prop bounces from compression to compression with the engine assembledGoing to have a cup of coffee and mount this engine to something .I want to hear it PUTT-Putt, before I go to bed.Not sure what that junk was put there was more in there ,than I was willing to over look..I got a Hobbico dig.mini tach and have never used it .Any body know if it only works in the sunshine or will a trouble light do the job ? I want to try that out too...Thanks for the tips everybody. I think ,I got a real Healthy engine now.
01-07-2006, 11:55 PM
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RE: Prepping A NORVEL, for BREAK-IN.
Whatever that is in the cup,certainly didn't need to be where moving parts are in your motor.
I am glad to learn the orbital trick. I don't know why I never thought of it myself!
Good luck with your new motor!
I am glad to learn the orbital trick. I don't know why I never thought of it myself!
Good luck with your new motor!
01-08-2006, 01:43 AM
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RE: Prepping A NORVEL, for BREAK-IN.
ARGH!!! glow driver ran out of juice.I`ll try again tommorow.Driver`s on the charger ,and I even plugged it, into the wall..
01-08-2006, 01:48 AM
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RE: Prepping A NORVEL, for BREAK-IN.
This is funny to me, I have a compulsive need to completely strip, clean, and lube any new (or new to me) engine I get before I'll fire it up. I have pulled some crud out of a few, but more than anything I just like to fool with them.
Duke
Duke
01-08-2006, 02:11 AM
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RE: Prepping A NORVEL, for BREAK-IN.
YES ,it`s one way to get intimate with your engine .The best thing about all this effort is ,I KNOW, darn well that the engine IS CLEAN..