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Norvel Engine FAQ

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Old 02-06-2006, 03:09 AM
  #51  
burtcs
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Default RE: Norvel Engine FAQ

I'm much too lazy to throw the depth Mic on the thing to get a baseline deck height, but...Adding or removing a head gasket does alter the deck height. The deck height is the part of the cylinder not used by the piston in it's travels, the head gaskets do contribute to that.

I'm viewing head gaskets as a compression ratio thing (the short, sweet and simple form). (piston swept displacement i.e. top to bottom dead center)+(Head volume)+(deck volume) / (head volume)+(deck volume) = Compression ratio. I don't know what the ignition point of 15% Nitro fuel is but I do know that by adding or subtracting a head gasket I can alter that point (I'm advancing or retarding the ignition point of the fuel). This will show up in the tach. readings and as you noted glow plug life. Until I add or subtract a head gasket, the ignition timing is just a loose cannon rolling around. Right now it isn't making any notable difference. I do think your right, the cylinder is still too tight.

A 5-3 prop eh? I just happen to have a rubber ducky I pulled off of a Holland Hornet; it's got the right prop hole in it. By now I really hate this engine it'll be fun to hear it squeal. Besides Norvel was dumb enough to offer a three year warranty. Hey I'm game, maybe tomorrow.

Regards - Steve B.
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Old 02-06-2006, 04:07 AM
  #52  
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Default RE: Norvel Engine FAQ

It really shouldn't be that complicated. Call SIG and have it replaced. They replaced one of the earliest .074s (1999) for me because it was only getting 18,000 on a 6X3 and 16,000 on a 7X3.
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Old 02-06-2006, 08:02 AM
  #53  
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Default RE: Norvel Engine FAQ

BURT, the deck is the top of the block, or in this case the ledge that the glow head mates to. The deck height is the dimension from TDC to this spot.

Head clearance is the dimension derived from stacking head gaskets.
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Old 02-06-2006, 12:13 PM
  #54  
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Default RE: Norvel Engine FAQ

Steve, see this recent post by beenie. http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=3875460
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Old 02-06-2006, 02:11 PM
  #55  
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Default RE: Norvel Engine FAQ

Playing with, head Gaskets ,moves the Squish band .Playing with, Cylinder base gaskets ,moves the Deck height,and the Sguish decreases, by the thickness, of the base gasket,installed....Add a gasket ,on the base, of the cylinder,and the Port timing, changes, too..
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Old 02-14-2006, 12:31 AM
  #56  
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Default RE: Norvel Engine FAQ

CP: I had a chance to fire up the 074 with a 5-3 prop and 15% nitro a week ago. No it didn't blow, it did peak at 22.5k. I was kind of proud of it.

I am boxing it up for warranty return. With a 7-3 APC RPM's never exceeded 9K - what a pig.

I called the phone number the warrenty sheet mentions, it's on your dime and you do not need an RMA number. Return your engine CO Justin.



Regards - Steve B.
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Old 03-02-2006, 09:08 PM
  #57  
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Default RE: Norvel Engine FAQ

Engine: .061 AME, clip on muffler with pressure tap, 3 plug shims, 1 cylinder gasket, small sliver of fuel tubing under carb seal

I purchased this engine used and everything is in great shape. I tore it down to check it over and it looks good. Has good comp and runs well when its running, but that is only for a minute or so.

Started with 15% nitro and have since went to 30% nitro. Both fuels seem to have the same result. A minute of run and quit. I have replaced the glow plug and same result.

Wondering if the engine is still to tight and needs more run in time or if it is in need of rebuild. Seems like the needle setting is tough to get right. I started by following the instructions and adjusting a few clicks at a time. But the short run time is making that tough to do. I am using a small 1 1/2 oz sullivan tank for a test run tank. Plane will have a 2 oz round sullivan.

This is my first 1/2A engine. And I have flipped my finger numb trying to figure it out.

See ya,
Rod
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Old 03-03-2006, 03:14 PM
  #58  
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Default RE: Norvel Engine FAQ

rchotrod:

You may wish to go back an reveiw my post on AME needle valves; they are very touchy. If your engine will run for one minute or so; your not getting fuel to keep it going. But I bet it's breath-taking while it's doing it.

I've only use two AME 061s (four 049's), I use a shim stock pressure tanks and crank case pressue back plates (serious pressure) to keep them going. I use Galbreath heads and Nelson glow plugs (head gaskets vary - one or two); they work a bit better than Cox High Compression glow heads, my experience is the Norvel plugs are way down the RPM range. I start the engines with a Norvel starter spring, get the needle to settle down and lauch the model. This may take twenty or thirty seconds total - start to finish. I'm also now using KK needle valves on them. I'm flying AMA class A gas free flight with the 061's. Maybe a CL Combat guy may have a better solution; they have to fly longer then this. All of this is true for 049's also. I also use 60% nitro in all my AME's, APC 6-2's in the 061's and APC 5.5-2 in the o49's.

I'm guessing your not getting fuel, the engine doesn't have enough draw to pull fuel from your tank for more than a minute and your going to have to force more in. The large venturi and the AME's needle doesn't help anything either.

There's nothing wrong with AME's they're just not a user freindly sport engine. One of the difficulties is that guys here do not distingush between Norvels. Norvel peddles AME's and they peddle Big Migs; they are not the same engine. AME's gotta move, good luck...

HTH - Steve B.








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Old 03-03-2006, 05:53 PM
  #59  
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Default RE: Norvel Engine FAQ

Thanks, I have read the various threads on these engines. Just seem to be having a difficult time with this one. Will keep at it.

I call it an AME because that is what's on the box. I am too new to these to know one from another. Just wanted to post as much info I knew about the engine.

I may try the back plate pressure tap and see if that works better than the muffler tap. I want it to be as reliable in the air as possible. The intended model will weigh in at just under 20 oz. So I hope it will be a good match. Seemed to have plenty of thrust on the test runs.

Yea, trying to fiddle with the needle with a screaming engine spinning a prop at the speed of death is a bit breath taking.

See ya,
Rod
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Old 03-04-2006, 06:37 PM
  #60  
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Default RE: Norvel Engine FAQ

My flippin' finger is flipped out but I finally got the norvel to run through a tank. AH the sweet sound of success.[8D]

I got it running with Magnum 15 % syn/castor blend and an AP plug with one or two, can't remember, plug shims.

I could get about 14000 rpm with a wooden 6x3 prop. And still have a good transition from idle to full throttle. If I tried to lean it out any further, it wouldn't pick up from idle and would try to stall out or would quit. One or two clicks on the needle makes a difference in the transition. Idle was about 10k but I could adjust that down a bit.

I don't have a temp gun, the engine wasn't blistering hot, but was able to touch for a second or so.

Will have to try out some more of the Magnum 30% Heli plus and see if I get good results.

Gotta let the flippin' finger rest. Or finish my starter. Got all the parts but need to figure out how to get the socket on my prop adapter and get some tubing inside the socket. Made the starter out of old r/c car parts. Motor, 4 cell pack and a stick with a doorbell button.

See ya,
Rod
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Old 03-04-2006, 07:05 PM
  #61  
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Default RE: Norvel Engine FAQ

Rod,

Good to hear you're getting it sorted out.
Don't worry about setting the needle until you've broken it in. Run several tanks through it and use a smaller prop for break-in, like a 5X3.
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Old 03-04-2006, 08:12 PM
  #62  
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Default RE: Norvel Engine FAQ

I bought the engine used and it is supposed to have been broken in and have two flights. I had to hit everything just right I guess.

I found a airspeed mph calc online and figuring 14000 rpm and a pitch of 3 I got a result of just under 40 mph. That should be plenty for a 20 oz plane.

see ya,
Rod
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Old 03-05-2006, 06:43 PM
  #63  
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Default RE: Norvel Engine FAQ

Is it possible to start a new .074 by hand or is a starter needed. Also will I have to get a 1/2a one or will my starter for my other larger glow engines work?
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Old 03-05-2006, 07:25 PM
  #64  
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Default RE: Norvel Engine FAQ

I used a standard starter... Magnum I think... and just took the rubber cone grabber out and put it back in backwards. That way there is a small hole to center the 074 and shove it hard against the prop. Aint pretty, but works like a charm
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Old 03-05-2006, 08:59 PM
  #65  
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Default RE: Norvel Engine FAQ

I just thought of that exact idea to start my .061 easier. Pulled out the rubber cone and shoved it back in with the small hole out. It centers on the cone perfectly.

Just be sure to not flood the engine. I plan to drip a few drops in to prime, then bump with starter till it fires, then hook up the fuel lines and start again. If it doesn't start right up stop and see what is wrong.

See ya,
Rod
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Old 03-05-2006, 09:02 PM
  #66  
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Default RE: Norvel Engine FAQ

Thats how I have been starting my small .15's but I read somewhere that you need a high RPM starter for them. Thanks guy thats a little more money to spend else where!!
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Old 03-11-2006, 12:41 AM
  #67  
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Default RE: Norvel Engine FAQ

I just wanted to add a little tip I found for my .061 Norvel BigMig muffler. The dang thing kept falling apart and after reading the solutions of JB Weld and drilling holes to screw it in, I just thought there had to be a better way. I took some of Dad's Fireline fishing line and tied a tight loop around the muffler exhaust and fuel tank pressure nipples (teehee). This keeps the muffler intact, no drilling or welding required. It could also be possible to attach the wire to small washers, drill a small hole in each end of the muffler, and run the line through both ends, then put another washer on the exit side of the muffler. Maybe put some jbweld between the washer and the muffler to prevent leaks. That way, the muffler would still be adjustable without flying apart.

If you have to drill holes, might as well get something good from it other than a muffler that doesn't pop in half every time you run it.
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Old 03-11-2006, 01:38 AM
  #68  
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Default RE: Norvel Engine FAQ

I like using screws because I DON'T want the muffler to rotate. Once it is set, I want it to stay there.
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Old 03-11-2006, 02:02 AM
  #69  
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You could get a very small metal screw and run it through the muffler from front to back, secure with a nut (first idea, I opted to not drill). That is, if you ever wanted to change the muffler exhaust direction later should the worst happen to your plane.

The string came from "Ok, what do I *HAVE*" Kinda like that guy Macgyver.

<-- "Awww, c'mon Pete!"
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Old 03-11-2006, 03:06 AM
  #70  
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There's more than one way to skin a cat.
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Old 03-23-2006, 01:44 AM
  #71  
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Default RE: Norvel Engine FAQ


ORIGINAL: Larry Driskill

ORIGINAL: Andrew


ORIGINAL: Larry Driskill

<snip>.......would make me think he (ptulmer) might really be the corpulent attack dog Ted Kennedy using an alias.
Larry --

Need I remind you that RCU has a stated policy against such posts.

Please resist the urge to curse, flame, degrade, insult or embarrass someone in your post. We encourage the free flow of your ideas, but believe that they can be communicated (and received) much more effectively if you keep things civil. If you have to vent, take it offline. We carefully monitor posts and will ban individuals who engage in offensive conduct within the forums. Thanks.
Andrew you are correct. I've transgressed and I apologize to canines everywhere for the association I made.
Apology accepted. Woof! However, if you want to make fun of Elephant Seals, there fat, loud and ugly to boot..
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Old 03-23-2006, 11:45 AM
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Default RE: Norvel Engine FAQ

I like using screws because I DON'T want the muffler to rotate. Once it is set, I want it to stay there.
What about hooking up a slaved elevator servo to the tailpipe and rotating it for Exhaust Thrust Vector pitch assist: Point it blowing down for pitch, blow it up for dive You could even use it on a twin with one upside down engine and Vtail mix Exhaust Thrust Vectoring[sm=thumbup.gif]
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Old 03-23-2006, 08:08 PM
  #73  
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Boy, my dog got ALL worked up at the thought of being associated with Ted Kennedy. My dog says he doesn't even LIKE convertibles! However, the thought of a photo of Ted Kennedy in a dark suit next to a photo of an elephant seal....He got a real chuckle and thought that the doublemint people might want a lead on some more twins...

Okay, Okay, I'm shutting up......

Jim
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Old 03-25-2006, 04:40 AM
  #74  
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Default RE: Norvel Engine FAQ

Hi:
I'm relatively new to 1/2A engines (but not to RC in general) and am what some might say a Sport Flyer. I just acquired a .061 AME engine used. The original owner really buggered up the glow head. Looks like he used a vice grip pliers to remove the head. In looking at the Sig parts list, I don't see the replacement head. They list the standard replacement head as part #NVL100148. I also notice the .061 AME head is somewhat larger than the Big Mig .061 head. Where can I get a new replacement for the AME .061? If so, what is the part number?
Thanks,
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Old 03-25-2006, 05:13 AM
  #75  
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Default RE: Norvel Engine FAQ

The AME and BigMig use the same head. The number you have is for a short plug adaptor. The part number you want is NVL110131.

http://www.greathobbies.com has them in stock.
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