bdavison

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Guys,

Ive been wanting something small for indoor electric flight. I decided to build a Gillows Cessna 180, but Im having trouble figuring out what motor to convert it to. Im going to be using the Cirrus Micro Joule pack for the servos,rx, and perhaps the ESC. Any of you guys have any opinions on what to use for the motor.

Unfortunatly there isnt a "Free-flight" forum, so I figured I would post it here.

Ill be dope and tissue covering the airframe, and planning on keeping it as light as possible by drilling out as much balsa as I can.

build light

I will try to help best I can. What is the wingspan and length and all up weight? Less motor, battery and ESC of course. Also it would be helpful to know what type of performance you are after.

I didn't see a 180 listed. Is it the Cessna 182 ? Skyhawk?
Or better yet what is the kit no?

Since you want to go electric, much of the kit balsa needs to be tossed out as it is almost always heavy and stiff. Guillows is notorius for having balsa that is heavy. Dark and dense it will be.

Robert

bdavison

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Gillows kit 601 Cessna 180. Georgeous kit. With the exception of the poor balsa and poor cutting of the kit, the frame-up is really cool.
Its supposed to be one of their "beginners" junior contest models...HAHA...Id like to see a beginner build one. Sheesh, Id like to see any beginner build one of these die crushed kits.
Wingspan is 20"

Oh, and the kit was hand picked....its got nice fresh bright light balsa in it.

I have no idea what the AUW is. I havent finished covering it yet.

bdavison

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I have to tell you...I havent built a balsa kit in over 10 years....boy...the smell of that thin CA...brings back some memories of my childhood. I think Im having more fun building this thing than I will flying it.

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Let me tell you... When I screw up I can really do it up freestyle!!! I actually have that same model!!! The hardest bump Igot was trying to get the curved pieces Parts A5 (2 each) on the top and A7( also 2 each) on the bottom that go from the bulkhead 1 (B1) to the next bulkhead (B2)
These would not fit in the slots as the slots were way, way too big for that thin sheet. I wound up shimming the excess and it looks really bad. Also I had second thoughts as to trying to get it into the air with anything I have. Just seems to small. With this in mind I added some bays to the wing panels ( many of those wing ribs didn't fit too well either) in attempt to add some area.

Oh! By the way AUW means All Up Weight. Basically means when you are ready to launch with fuel, radio, covering, wheels or whatever kind of gear or extras. Basically the airborne weight.

If anyone else could chime in for some advice I could use it as well !!

I was thinking the Fieago 1208436 which is a 12 X30 mm motor would work well here.

bdavison

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Yeah, I had trouble with those parts too. The Infamous part A5.

Ive got it all together and covered with 00 tissue and dope. Its really lightweight. Covering that fuselage is a nightmare. I was going to use the included green stuff that came in the kit, but while I got the sides of the fuselage covered with it, it just would not stick to the top. I dont know if it was the 40 degree shop I was working in, or the tissue...or the dope(Im not impressed with AeroGloss) but it just refused to stick. I ended up just covering the top in 00 white, with the sides in green. A little sharpie marker work, and now its looking quite sporty. I did'nt cover the bottom of the fuselage yet, because I want space to work with when I go to install the electronics....install electronics first, then cover it.

Ill I have to do now is install the stuff, cover the bottom, shrink it up, and apply the 50/50 coat to lock it all in, and attach the window "glass".


Since Im going to use the Cirrus Micro Joule pack...it has a tiny 5A ESC included....so Ill have to use a brushed motor. Id like to go direct drive. Im thinking one of those GWS Direct Drive motors might be just the ticket.

Id like to use the Feigao, but honestly....thats WAY to much power.

bdavison

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The thing is REALLY tail heavy, so its a good thing I have a motor to mount up front. Just out of curiosity, I wanted to see how much weight it took to balance it. 1/4 of the included clay stick balanced it out. So with the cirrus pack and a decent direct drive motor....I think this little thing is gonna be FUN to fly.

Im gonna weight it once I get the cirrus pack installed, and then figure out what motor to use. Im thinking with the motor it should still come in under 2oz.

build light

All that "tail heaviness is from that dense wood I was refering to. Now the kit reccomends balancing with the clay that came with it but that was supposed to offset all that rubber that goes to the rear of the plane. Knowing we won't be using that is a good thing. Still it will be tail heavy if you don't watch out. Try to avoid adding clay or other ballast to the nose by shoving all your equipment forward. It has a decent amount of room forward of the balance point (CG) so that should not be a problem. Another way to save weight is to omit the landing gear.
Most don't like that idea because for one thing, it is supposed to have landing gear. Another reason is that so many want to take off with landing gear.
I know I do. Problem with that is because of its size you will wind up hand launching it because the landing gear is so useless for its size. Landing is another issue. The only thing that landing gear is good for in the real world when it comes to landing is to get caught on something and slam the nose into the ground. Bye Bye propeller! This issue is not bad if indoor flying in a gym. Otherwise land in some tall soft grass. Something gentle.

Good luck!

Robert

bdavison

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I knew it was going to be tail heavy with no equipment in it. Its got such a short nose. I planned on mounting all the micro servos RX, ESC and everything up front. It should balance easily, I dont plan on adding any weight. I dont use weight on my planes. Never had a plane yet that I had to add weight too. Just positioned all the guts correctly, and balance it that way. Im going to use a 7.4V 2cell 250mah lipo...its really small and lightweight. This thing is going to fly really good I think. It's really light. Ill post some pics tonight.

bdavison

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I wish Gillows would make a Extra 330, or a Edge or Ultimate biplane....that would be SOOOOOO cool....something like this...

bdavison

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Here's a pic of my semi-completed Gillows Cessna 180.....ohhhhhhh fun!

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Wow, really nice work inspite of the poor fit in so many places. Dis you also have trouble with the wing ribs? mine seemed too long or too short. I had to remake 4 of them.

Robert

bdavison

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Yes, I had to re-shape a few with some sandpaper to get them to fit right. Nothing in those kits fits or lines up right.

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As to the power for this thing I think this might be ideal

http://www.stevensaero.com/shop/prod...roductid=16566

As for the Extra, Guillows of course does not supply. I think it is time they add some new kits to their line. It would only help. One must advance.

Sterling/Estes however did have an Extra300s As a matter of fact I have one. They are now out of prodution but there are many still in stores yet (so I have read). It is a very nice kit wingspan of 24 5/8" they also had a Cap. Mine is just as you see it.

Robert

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Sorry it wasn't a Cap it was a Sukhoi 26

Robert

bdavison

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I dont know...a 7x6 prop is really big to be swinging on the front of this little cessna. Something with a 5-6" prop would probably be better.

I like that Extra300....do you want to sell the kit?

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I thought you would like that! Sorry the kit is not for sale as yet but hold on to your socks my friend. I am looking into that for you. I might be able to locate one for you. Hold tight!

I just saw one of these Sterling/Estes kits go for over 50 bucks on feebay. Same series but a different model. I think it was a P-51. Can't remember and can't find it now. This was only a couple of weeks ago. Outragous!

Stay tuned...Robert

mclintock

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See also easybuilt models, they have some laser cut types but mostly are old-school printwood..
Easier than having to buy a die-crusht kit and replacing all the parts I guess..
http://easybuiltmodels.com/ff.htm

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Clint, I have just come back from Easybuilt's web site and I am duly impressed!
The prices are very decent as well as having a large selection of designs to choose from. There are even a few laser-cut kits for a reasonable price. One of the reasons their kits are so inexpensive seems to be a lack of preformed or vac molded parts. Thats cool with me but what all do they come with? I have been a bit spoiled with the Guillows and Sterling kits( I like sterling best) simply because of all the goodies in the box. This includes the tissue, clay for balance, prop, rubber, wire for LG, wheels (though almost always way to heavy to suit me) Cheapo (though certainly usable) bellcranks, horns, U-control handle, and so on.

Do they have wire and wheels? Tissue, prop and rubber?

Don't get me wrong most of those "extras" in the other kits were either junky klunky warped plywood or way overweight for a rubber powered plane but I am easily distracted by shiny objects, even useless ones! I would always marvel at the thought of those solid heavy hardwood wheels I used to find in those kits and think " These weigh as much as the whole rest of the plane! Why in the world would I want these on here if it is going to fly?"

I think I want to try one of those Easybuilt kits and submit my photo and get a $10. certificate on my next model!

Still Ihave so many other things I am working on...

Robert

mclintock

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The easybuilt kits that I have are more like the old Comet kits than the guillows- except the Comet box had a color picture on it.
Landing gear is a length of straight music wire for you to bend to the plan, The rubber and prop are in the box, I'll go look...
The wheels are ok I guess, plastic and light, unlike the turned wooden things in the comet kits, the prop not so great in the one I looked in, some clear sheet for the windows.. a thrust button and hook for the decent included rubber..
The wood is nice, the sheets seem to have been selected for hardness based on purpose, and there sticks are good and straight.

The kits I have are old, from when Easybuilt was in Canada, so they may be even better now..

In my old kits, the plans are ok, but have some photocopier generation loss artifacts, and one or two of the plans would not fit on a single sheet, but were originally made for a single sheet, so I get the left side of the plan and the right side of the plan on two sheets..

Oh the tissue in there is just fine too.

Also the kits I have are the cheapest of all, and I think they are still good, again better than comet, which to me were ok..

See also=
http://www.bmjrmodels.com/index.cfm
I don't have any of the bmjr, but they make a twin lizzy so they must be cool.

bdavison

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easybuiltmodels.com has some nice looking kits, but no extra's or aerobatic planes []

I'd like to build something small thats capable of 3D type flight. Might have to scratch build a edge or something. Shouldnt be too hard.

It would be soooooo cool to have a micro edge that would 3D.

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Wow! Penn Valley Hobby Ctr has a huge selection of rubber kits for great prices. For instance the Easy Built Harvard with a 35" wingspan for under 17 bucks! That my friends is a lot of rubber and sticks in a box (yes prop, wheels and tissue too).
They carry most major brands there it seems. Check 'em out
http://www.pennvalleyhobbycenter.com/index.html

I liked that Mystery Tailless they had too. Strange looking plane with twin rudders. I wonder how that might turn out for R/C...

Robert

mclintock

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Here's a thread about 1/2a 3D planes,
http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_32...halfwit/tm.htm
If you like profiles try a search for 'halfwit' and check out that one..

also see mountainmodels.com- they have a cessna 180 and some various 3-d types in both balsa and foam..

build light

I have had no response regarding the Extra I mentioned in an earlier post but there is one on feebay right now. These generally do not get stupid high in bidding but be careful. they do come up from time to time.

http://cgi.ebay.com/STERLING-EXTRA-3...QQcmdZViewItem

Robert