combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

This plane has a flat bottom wing, with about a 7 inch root chord and 5 inch tips. It weighs 14 ozs RTF. It tracks well and has good roll response, but it hasn't been flown yet with a streamer hanging off a wing tip, so tip fins might be needed yet for combat. The wing has a fairly hefty spruce leading edge, balsa trailing edge, and spruce wing tips. There is a spruce spar of sorts on top only and it is handy as a servo mount and it anchors the hatch hold down screw. The engine mount is 1/4x1/2 poplar rails that have 1/16 ply glued to them to give the fuel tank a mounting place. I decided to just use a single 2-56 threaded rod to bolt the mount to the hardwood block that is buried in the wing, the idea is for it to hinge in a crash, instead of break. I'm somewhat happy with it, but it is still more work to build than I would like to see. The next one I try will be just a flying wing, to eliminate the need for an elevator. This one is completely covered with clear tape, including how the ailerons are hinged.

hogflyer

CP -

Nice description - do you have a picture of it, or is it stealth and won't show up in a picture?

HF

SGC

"This plane has a flat bottom wing" ??????? what plane ?
Ok its there now , looks like a tough bugger.
My thoughts on your knock about motor mount, I would use 2 nylon bolts - this would prevent it wondering under vibration , but break easy and still provide the crash protection.
Also if you lay your sevo's on there side with just the horn end sticking up , they will be better protected too.
Stewart

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Sorry, there was a security clearance problem with the photo I'll try to send a larger image........

scudrunner77

Looks like I'm up for some fierce competition this season... Did you model it after one of your control line planes?

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

I switched from the Kodak system because it has a "software updater agent" that kept switching itself on and would bring this computer to a halt. I would not recommend Kodaks' service to anyone, but now I'm trying to just get by with the HP photo shop, and it so far has proven to be a bulky, time consuming POS. I'm trying to send 4 pictures with an average size of 45 KB, and RCU says that the file is too large. This is smaller than what I used to send via Kodaks' photo shop.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

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scudrunner77

Maybe you could run a servo to that motor mount for yaw control too.....

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

SR77, it's got some of the same features as my 1/2A C/L combat planes. The swinging mount helps to keep the center rib from getting torn up, and the tail boom is C/F tubing. That's about all the similarities, I'm thinking that a strong leading edge will be enough to keep the wing together in a cork screw type crash, maybe even a straight in pile driver. This plane is 1/4 pound lighter than the 1/2A LANIER job, and it would be interesting to see what the difference is between the 2 design philosophies at the end of a days' work. I think it will get way more scoring opportunites than the heavier plane.

ptulmer

My Feedback: (5)

Looks like your typical excellent work CP! Hey, now you can go spend that 1/4lb on a cheeseburger! The fella from Lanier made a good try, but most people don't have the right attitude toward 1/2A. Lighter ain't just better, it's necessary.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Patrick, I think you run across some kind of magic kinetic energy line at 14 ozs with the materials we use. The other planes that I've built don't hit the ground or each other as hard if the weight is kept down. They tend to bounce off each other or the ground better when kept light. Unless there was a huge tactical superiority that showed itself repeatedly on day one between the heavy vs light planes, it might take quite awhile to settle this question. Anybody volunteer to fly the 18 ouncers?

I'm going to try for a flying wing foamy today, trying to keep the weight and amount of steps to complete it at a minimum.

Raymond LeFlyr

My Feedback: (2)

Patrick,

Did you check out the two 1/2A combat models that were displayed at Perry?

One of them really caught my attention. The brand name associated with it doesn't matter to me (for reasons that aren't important here). But it did bother me - and this is just my opinion - that it would not have been a good first model for a budding 1/2A combaterianite to start out with. I thought it could be made lighter and that a much less fragile front end could easily be adopted. So,

One of the things I like is the 'survivable' front end of CP's design. And,

I've been wondering about adapting one or two of the front end ideas in my old (refuses to die) Predator like the thin horizontal center reinforcement - tied together with the break-away, plastic screw attached motor mounts. CP use of rubber bands would accomplish the same thing.

Anway, my workshop is slowly approaching the point where I can move my goodies back in. When that happens I will start playing with these little streamer snappers.

BTW, I've been flying (happily) a bunch of different FFF models powered by electrics. I can't help but wonder if that material couldn't be used to produce an entry-level (reed valve - ptui - powered) model. Any thoughts youse all?

KidEpoxy

so are we going to see a trend of people mounting the firewall on a Slinky? Or mount up some beer cans for volvo style Crumple Zones?

SureStart FFF combat... after each heat, throw away the chassis & mount the goodies in fresh a stamped airframe- no fuelproofing required. Just bring stacks of wings and fuzes (pre-hinged). If it gets ugly, hotwire a wingplan extrusion & salami slice off wings for mass production rather than #11ing wing after wing. A $7 engine in a $7 chassis... sweet.

ptulmer

My Feedback: (5)

Raymond, I haven't been real impressed with what they're calling 1/2a combat anyway. They still use expensive engines and foam. Neither are my favorite. Foam MAY be the best way to built a combat wing, but it'll probably be here on this forum that I change my mind. CP's made me think twice. Let's see yours' and his next effort!

What's FFF?

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Patrick, I think it means fan fold foamy, but i'm not sure what that means either. One thing that sucks about this first foamy is that the servo leads are buried in the wing, it might look neater, but it would be better to just drape the servo leads on the surface. The only possible improvements over the fun that we've had with the all wood planes would be less maintenance, less down time and less work to build [that's about EVERYTHING, I guess]. The all wood planes weren't too bad in these respects, I'm just wondering if there is room for improvement. This is what I've come up with today, for a flying wing job. This wing is 1.25" thick, to allow a full size 4 channel RX, that's the main reason why I'm going for the extra thickness. I'm using a spruce leading edge, and will most likely have a spruce spar on top also. I don't expect this plane to come out as light as the first one, if not that's OK, I'm just going to build one at a time 'till I arrive at the best design. No matter what, they will all get some use this summer at the proving grounds.

scudrunner77

I might be willing to order one and then we can do some real comparison. I think the kit is only $30.00 Not out to prove anything, but since there seems to be enough interest in how the heavy vs light would match up.

How about magnetic hatches!?!?

The wing looks good so far....

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

SR77....The part about the 18 oz plane that they don't tell you is that it weighs 18 ozs before it has ever been crashed and repaired. What do you figure it would weigh after a few glue and splint repair jobs? I would rather have you hold on to your money and just pilot one of these planes. Invest that cash into Nelson plugs and 6x3 props!

Raymond LeFlyr

My Feedback: (2)

Pt,

FFF is, like CP said, Fan Fold Foam. You have to purchase it in bundles of 50 or so (I forget the exact number). One popular brand is manufactured by Dow who call it BlueCor - you'll see that name too. I bought my first bundle a year or so ago and thought I had a lifetime supply (oh, it about $30) per bundle). I am now half-way through my second bundle since the "wow" factor of seeing a $1 airframe doing amazing things has led to many of these 2-foot by four-foot sheets depart my premises with copies of the specs or website addresses. Its about 5/16-inch thick and fairly flat - just some 'waves'.

As for their use in 1/2A combat. I don't see them being used much with 'real' engines like the .061s. But for reedies it may be another thing. As for fuel-soaked wings, in the past I have just covered about a foot in the center of Slow CL combat foamies with laminating film when I though I didn't need the extra strength outboard. You'd still have to put in a spar (1/8 carbon tube woudl be my choice). And maybe something would be needed to resist twisting. If I were playing around with glow-powered FFF combat design I'd start thinking about a one-piece fuselage 'plank with the wing rubber-banded on. The wing would have a servo for each aileron. there would be no rudder or elevator servos - get it? I would make two fuselages (one for a spare since there are only four screws for mounting the engine - the rcvr and battery are zip-tied on - making fuselage switching a five-minute deal.

For the wings, I'd carry four or five of them (as many as I could cut out of one sheet - the work of an hour or two to prepare with covering, hinging, and servo mount gluing). The servos would be quick-changeable too - and use kwik links on the servo arms. I would carry an extra servo - or two as well as props for an all-day outing. The only hang-up is the carbon tubes for the CG spars. I stil can't find them for much less than $4. Other than the price of what I described above couldn't add up to ten bucks.

Oh, for fixing any torsion problem I was thinking of a sorta box-spar sandwich using another piece of 1/8 carbon (or spruce) maybe 3-inches behind the CG spar. Then pieces of 1/32 or 1/64 ply to form the top and bottom of the box. The span-length of the ply pieces might start out at 12-inches (about the area covered by laminating film maybe?) FWIW, my best screaming-wild electric FFF model spans just under four feet and with a single 1/4-inch carbon tube spar shows no twisting problems - even with those huge ailerons. I guess the tape hinging might help some there.

Anyway, this is where my 1/2A FFF thoughts have wondered. I'm all tired out now. I guess it must be nap time.

ptulmer

My Feedback: (5)

That's not a bad idea Raymond. I wonder how 2mm coroplast would compare?

flyswatter

pt:

I will share a bundle with you for us to play with - what do you say? Hey Raymond, do we buy the FFF direct from Dow?

It is time I tried some of this new fangle foam stuff and moved into the 20th, oh, I mean the 21st century. Geez, where did the time go?[X(] You know, it is sad when you measure your life by different centuries, but it beats the alternative all to heck.

Raymond LeFlyr

My Feedback: (2)

2 mil Coroplast might be OK for reinforcement somewhere but its much heavier than FFF - and its kinda floppy unless you put bamboo skewers in a flute or two. I'd stick with the foam.

Just a warning for anyone who's into the stuff, the last batch I bought had film on only one side. That may be OK, and I know that Demon-Leather advocates stripping it off and covering with Nelson's stuff, but I'd like to have the option since I like the way it takes floral spray and adds a little strength. By the way I was looking forward to seeing Demon-L and his FFF Roaring 20, etc. at Lexington. Wa hoppen?

ptulmer

My Feedback: (5)

Flyswatter, I'd rather split one of these: http://www.quadcitychallenger.com/
I'm gonna hang back and finish some of my projects while these guys work the bugs out.[X(] I think Home Depot has the pink stuff.

flyswatter

pt:
I would split one with you, but I don't think they will allow us to fly it in the Reedie Race.

Raymond LeFlyr

My Feedback: (2)

Wilson,

I understand that there are pink and white versions of FFF out there. I found the Dow BlueCor here in NC at Lowes and Home Despot. People who have been buying the stuff for longer than I tell me that the price goes up in the Winter insulation months and down again in the Spring. But if it was me I'd go ahead and get some now before our beloved politicians and the oil companies make it too expensive to drive to the hardware store (these comments are solely the opinion of the aforesigned and do not reflect RCU policy).

Cutting it is straight forward with a hobby knife but dulls blades quickly and the cuts come out ragged. I use the cheap snap-off blades that are very thin for straight runs and wide curves - and I use maybe three blade segments per plane. A scalpel serves for tight corners.

Hot melt glue, polyurethane, and 5-minute 'poxy do alright. I have never used odorless CA. BUT you gotta protect against fuel/any liquid because the raw edges particularly will sop up fuel like Patrick with a biscuit on gravy (can you say, sluuurp). Like I said, cheap laminating film works fine for me, just be careful with the heat.

ptulmer

My Feedback: (5)

Why not? It's got a reed valve engine!