ClarkFlyer

Cool! Got your attention. Hey, may I get some 1/2a advise please? I fly .40 size planes and would consider myself an intermediate flyer. I've been thinking that it might be fun to try some 1/2A flying.....just not quite sure what I should get.. I have a Futaba 6exa radio. I'd like something 4 channel, something fairly slow and stable....perhaps even trainer like. Any suggestions as to what plane and motor combo? Arf or kit would be ok. With the smaller planes, do you use smaller servos or will my standard 3004s work? I watched a fella with an Herr Something extra powered by an os15.....went like it was on fire....nope, like to try a slowflyer first.....I appreciate any and all advise.

Bipe Flyer

Welcome to the club, weenie!

See this link if you want to scratch build a 1/2A trainer. http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_2301186/tm.htm

Herr makes a 1/2A trainer and a few other high wing models that should fit the bill. http://www.iflyherr.com

The SIG Nitro Rascal is only 3 channels, but it's a beauty. Available as a [link=http://www.sigmfg.com/cgi-bin/dpsmart.exe/ProductsV5.html?L+Sig+scxn4100+_Ddp_5fSearch1_02A_ 2dPlaneRCRascal_01Search_02Index_01SubMenu_02None_ 01]kit [/link]or an [link=http://www.sigmfg.com/cgi-bin/dpsmart.exe/ProductsV5.html?L+Sig+uoar4850+_Ddp_5fSearch1_02B_ 2dPlaneRC_26NRascal_01Search_02Index_01SubMenu_02N one_01]ARF.[/link]

You could use standard servos, bu I wouldn't. For price, power and size I like Hitec HS-81s. You can go with smaller servos, but HS-81s are fine the the models listed above.

A Norvel .074 is one of the nicest little engines you'll ever find. Light, loads of power, easy to use and a good throttle. Unfortunately COX is all but gone and the Norvel engines are out of stock everywhere. SIG has the Norvels listed on their site, but I don't know if they are actually in stock. An AP Wasp .061, AP Hornet.09 or Thunder Tiger GP .07 may be all you can get right now. Not the best power to weight ratio, but certainly enough for a slow flyer.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Clark, it is much more difficult to land a 5 pound, .40 powered sport plane on a 250 foot long strip, cross wind and all, compared to a lightly built 1/2A plane that can land in grass without ever reaching dirt. \With that thought in mind, you should be able to instantly be master of any 250 sq inch, 14 oz plane. PTULMERs' DAS NOT UGLY stick type plane fills that bill, easily. You want to use smaller servos if the budget allows, but it could carry a pair of standard servos. You really want to seek out a small battery, I like 300 mah NIMH packs. If Battleground isn't too far away from Arlington, then come on out for some flying!

BTW, I would avoid COX engines for a variety of reasons, running them becomes a hobby within a hobby. There are other engines, like BipeFlyer suggests that will give you nothing but ENJOYMENT. The COX engines give SATISFACTION when you get one running right, that's the difference .

Hydro Junkie

CP, I hope you realize Battleground is a whole days drive away, kinda by Portland It may be too far to go for a 1/2A flier

ptulmer

My Feedback: (5)

Geez, CP! Cox reedies ain't that bad! Ok, they're pretty bad if you don't know the combination. I think Larry at www.kittingittogether.com still has some Norvel BigMig Startups. Great little engines and they come with the mount. It's no good for a tank, but works fine as a mount.
Ok, a slowflier... we talking glider territory? Maybe the POS...oops, the POC [link=http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXE615&P=0](piece-of-cake)[/link] kit would be nice. It's a motor glider, but the kit needs some modifications when building. Mainly just a longer nose. You know, the tankmount might just give a long enough run for this airplane!
If that's too slow, consider Bipe's trainer plan or the Herr kit. I've never built a Herr kit, but you never hear anything bad about them.

btw, if you stick a Norvel .061 Bigmig on the front of a DNU, hold on to the transmitter with one hand and your *** with the other. It's gonna be fast

Lou Melancon

ClarkFlyer,
Wing Manufacturing is offering reproductions of some of the older 1/2A planes. This is the Mini-Mambo. It weighs 16.5 ounces with Norvel .061 RC, three Hitec HS55 servos, Polk Seeker 6 receiver, 400 mah battery pack. 1/2A planes are a lot of fun. This one sits on the back seat of my car just in case an appointment cancels and I can get to a flying site. A pint of fuel lasts a couple of weekends. Give it a try you might enjoy it.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

I just think that running COXES takes more little tricks and tools of the trade than the other small engines available. I haven't tried to get replacement plugs for my .074 recently, is this an obstacle now that Norvel is shutdown?. If you stick a 6x3 prop on backwards [never tried it] on a DNU, I would think it should be tame enough for any seasoned .40 sized pilot. Even if you put the prop on the right way, the DNU shouldn't be too much to handle if you got the CG and control throws set conservatively. A longer winged version, like 36" could be built with no change of materials, except 50 cents more covering.

vicman

My Feedback: (10)

Not really, I just went 3500 miles to fly with him and had a great time! Can't wait to do it again.

ptulmer

My Feedback: (5)

I think we should all meet up in Muncie!

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

If they require mufflers, then Muncie is definitely out. [&o]

ClarkFlyer

wow, do I ever love this forum!!! Ask a question and get a ton of advice. Looks like many of the 1/2 A planes are 3 channel. I guess I'm ok with that, just no experience with them.....would I put the rudder servo to my aileron channel so that the elevator and rudder would be on the right stick? Or leave the rudder on the left as I use it now? Looks to me I have more research to do....and more money to spend!

Thank you all so much......and yeah, Arlington would be a bit of a drive....although I did fly at the Field Of Dreams in Redmond, Oregon a few weeks ago...what a marvelous field...thanks again!!

Bipe Flyer

Yes, move the rudder to the aileron stick if you are going with 3 channels.

ptulmer

My Feedback: (5)

ClarkFlyer, even more 1/2a airplanes are two channel. Most don't use throttles. You know why? Throttles are for weenies!!!

BTW, here's a link to Lou's airplane: http://www.earlyrcmodels.com

ClarkFlyer

Thanks for the links......I found several planes that pique the interest. A question though......It sounds like the Norvel engines are widely used but it sounds like they are unavailable. Is that right? I read the sticky about the Norvel and it sounds like maybe they are very fussy......theres a lot of talk about the right props, right nitro and oil mix, additional head gaskets. If I end up with one of these, am I embarking on a whole new thing? I'm used to my OS engines where you just fuel them up, make an adjustment, and go flying. I'm not sure I want to get into something that becomes frustrating. You guys mention a couple of other engines....would I be happy with one of those? I guess I'm just spoiled with the OS product.....what a weenie, huh?

ptulmer

My Feedback: (5)

They're only fussy if you're trying to get that last little bit out of it. You could use most of that advice with an OS to peak it. Just stick a Cox 5x3 on any 1/2a engine and you have a nearly indestructible combo that has plenty of power.

Remby

My Feedback: (3)

ClarkFlyer;

Check out Ebay for some NIB, or other used Cox, or even some other motors to use. You can start 1/2a flying real cheap, some "Sure start" motors can be had there for under 10 bucks new. Or, find a NIB Tee Dee, Medallion, Black Widow reedie, etc.

Point is it's all there to work with, and will get the ball rolling for ya.

Planes can be built from scratch, see Bipe Flyers trainer in this forum, or try looking for RC magazines, lots of things to work with.

Throttles are not needed with these, but no trouble hooking them up. No throttle planes make you a better flyer, IMO.

Now get going! Happy forth of July ,everyone! May we all have the need for a roasted weenie today!

Godspeed Discovery !

.
/<0>\
/.........\

AndyW

My Feedback: (1)

ClarkFlyer,

Today's light radios and powerful 1/2A engines allow you, if you build right, to have a 1/2A plane of 34 to 38" span with a weight of 14 to 16 ounces that will actual outperform anything of a .40 to .60 size. AND, hand launching such a plane is not required, you can take off, land, and even do touch and goes on your typical grass runway, or even the local park.

This is the kind of 1/2A flying that I enjoy but it takes an engine with good throttling. The only currently available engine out there that gives you that, right out of the box, is the Norvel .074. It's not strictly 1/2A, (neither is .06) But you get an engine that you don't have to muck around with, ( as I do) to get good throttling. The only other engine that offered you the same and was a true 1/2A was the VA .049 MK2. This one had a good little throttle with an adjustable airbleed. Unfortunately, they're not making them anymore. Its only drawback was that you needed an all castor fuel, as you do with Cox engines. Ah fuel. If you're going to try 1/2A, keep in mind that you're going to have to invest in some high nitro stuff. At least 15%, I fly with 25%. That seems like a lot compared to what you're used to but small engines respond best to more nitro. You CAN use your 5% but when you switch to the 25,,,, you won't go back. Also, don't worry about the price of high nitro fuel. At one to two ounces per flight, even a quart goes a long way.

Designs to build. If you can build from plans, find something like,,, the Ugly Stik and blow up the mag plans to 36" span, keep it under 16 ounces and you'll have a plane that will fly low and slow like a trainer but when you punch it, watch out. A low wing version can be seen here.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...288&q=low+stik

Low and slow wasn't done during this session due to the gusty winds but you can see that it'll handle grass no problem. Hand launching is for wusses.

But, if you're just trying to get your feet wet without getting crazy about it, (like me) the previous advice given is your best bet.

larryseng

Where could I get the Mini Mambo, thanks Larry

Bipe Flyer

Early RC Models has a laser cut Minnie Mambo.
http://www.earlyrcmodels.com/
Near the bottom of the page.

Lou Melancon

Larryseng,
The Mini-Mambo I built was originally kitted by EarlyRC who were sold to WingMfg. Try www.wingmfg.com. The Mini-Mambo was flown six times last weekend. I wasn't expecting much from it, just built it for the "to be different" factor. Having flown it I am amazed at how well it flies. 12 minutes on a two ounce tank and every maneuver you could ever think of with rudder/elevator. It flies great. I now keep it in the trunk of my car in case I am close to a flying field at lunch time. It has become my favorite plane.

At my club most of the new fliers progress from trainers to low wing aerobats and if they have the money to giant scale gas powered Scale Aerobatic planes. This occurs over a one year period. The most admired pilots and members in my club fly the really giant airplanes. I was surprised when about five or six of them came up to me and asked about the Mini-Mambo, saying it looked like a lot of fun. I think they were surprised that it was as quiet as an electric and would fly three feet off the ground very close in. They were disappointed it wasn't an ARF, but a couple seemed willing to give "building" a try.

This year I am building the old planes and covering them with dope and silk to hopefully show some of the new and most enthusiastic modelers how we used to do it in the old days (circa 60s and 70s), when you had to build because nothing else was available.

After the Taurus that is now on the workbench is finished I am going to do a Top Flite Top Dawg for one of the Norvels I have sitting around. Man these little planes are a blast to fly!!! Can't wait to do the next one.

rainedave

My Feedback: (1)

Lou Melancon, kudos to you for gaining the interest of some of your newer club members. I commented on your plane in another thread, but I'll say it again, it's really gorgeous!

I was blabbing in another thread about how I think that arfs are to building like the proverbial bushel basket was to the lamp. They don't know what they're missing. I really think that if an example of originality, creativity and skill is displayed - a you are doing - younger pilots will want to try building something that is their own unique creation, and probably enjoy the process, too. As far as I know you can't buy a Chinese silk and dope finish.

BTW, if y'all haven't tried Brodak dope (actually Randolph) you owe it to yourself to try it. It flows like nothing I've ever used and the clear butyrate gives a smooth gloss that has to be seen. I won't be going back to Sig dope.

ptulmer

My Feedback: (5)

rainedav, I know that dope smells good and all that, but you might want to give Nelson paint a try too. It's waterbased poly-u and can be made 50% fuelproof. Very light, easy to clean up and no brain damage from fumes!

rainedave

My Feedback: (1)

ptulmer, I just went to their website - http://www.nelsonhobby.com/paint.html - and read up on their stuff. It does sound impressive. I may give it a try on a future project (after I use up the dope I just bought). The only thing that concerns me is that they say it doesn't shrink. Getting that drum-tight surface on open framework areas is what I love most about silk/tissue and dope. Plus, like you say, the smell of nitrate is pretty nice.

Big Al-RCU

quote]ORIGINAL: rainedav

ptulmer, I just went to their website - http://www.nelsonhobby.com/paint.html - and read up on their stuff. It does sound impressive. I may give it a try on a future project (after I use up the dope I just bought). The only thing that concerns me is that they say it doesn't shrink. Getting that drum-tight surface on open framework areas is what I love most about silk/tissue and dope. Plus, like you say, the smell of nitrate is pretty nice.
[/quote]
I haven't used the Nelson product either and was wondering the same thing. I would guess that being water based it would not adversely react with nitrate dope. Maybe shrink with a coat of clear nitrate and then spray color Nelson? Would like to hear from experienced users also.
Al

AndyW

My Feedback: (1)

I've used the Nelson water/poly paint and it gives a very glossy, professional looking finish. BUT, it's different, far different from anything you've ever used before. It is particularly different from dope. With dope, the solvents in the new coat reactivate the old coat and provides a perfect bond. The poly paint begins to CURE and not dry, much like an epoxy paint,,, without the smell. If you brush you have to apply the new coat almost immediately. If you wait too long, you have to let the last coat cure for a day or two and then sand the whole thing to allow the new coat to adhere. The best way to apply poly paint is all at one shot with a spray gun. This also entails an entirely new technique. It's water based and doesn't dry as fast as volatile solvents so when you do the "lightly spray on a dust coat" thing you have to wait longer for each coat to firm up. Otherwise you can end up with a very runny coat of paint.

As far as shrinkage, as long as your covering job is tight from the start, you'll have no problems there. In fact, its a bonus on small, light airframes.

My small CAP was done this way and I'm very pleased with the results particularly with how fuel proof the finish is to 25% nitro. Be sure to get the cross linker additive which improves the fuel proofiness.

The covering is Litespan, notorious for low shrinkage and yet I had no problems with bagginess. You just have to apply it tight to begin with and shrink it as much as it will, which isn't much but it works for a very light and durable covering that's much stronger than tissue and nearly as light.