Raymond LeFlyr

My Feedback: (2)

Cap10B,

At my field the 1/2A pilot would be scowled at no matter what else was flying - or how loud it was. When I tried to host Sml Brd Flyns, the feedback I got was that our models were too annoying. There were two main complaints; the noise may not be louder but the high frequency is the problem, and "you can never tell where they will land and the pilots are always wandering out on the runway." Its part of the reason that I now fly more lekkies. (But thank goodnes they find my .010s humorous.)

By the way . . . aw never mind.

Bipe Flyer

There are some inconsiderate people out there. I know a club that is anti-small. I took an .061 plane a .15 plane to their scale fly-in one year. One guy commented on how those little engines are noisy and hard to get running, but he was quite surprised at how nicely the Norvel ran and that the plane could taxi, takeoff, fly knife edge, land and taxi back. At our club we just call takeoffs and landings when launching and landing deadstick, the same as you would for a plane with wheels. Although most of my 1/2A planes have wheels anyways. Almost all of my electrics are hand launch and belly land. If we have to go out on the runway, we yell "On the runway!". Besides, people have to go out onto the runway all the time - pattern guys have someone else carry their plane out and hold it until takeoff, trainers flip over and heli guys have to takeoff and land outside the flightline to name a few.

Now, I'm not going to pretend that the fact that half of the club executive flies 1/2A doesn't have some influence. However, we make sure every aspect of aeromodelling is allowed at our field.

Wayne C

"It's no worse than a leaf blower."


You got that right. Even electric leaf blowers a annoying.

digital_trucker

Personally, I find this practice of taxiing to your feet after landing to be absurdly dangerous - seen too many 'events' with radios and whatnot. Yelling "ON THE RUNWAY!!!" and retrieving it is a MUCH safer option no matter what the size. About the only valid complaint I can see in those arguments is the noise frequency. 'Tis true that frequency rather than Db seems to make more of a difference in perception. 'you can never tell where they will land'....this is different from every other hot dog pilot in WHICH way exactly?

cap10b

Raymond Leflyr,
Unfortunately what you say is true, even my own flying buds frown on 1/2A. But getting back to the original question has the electric craze put a damper on 1/2A you have to say definitely YES. No question about it. Anything noisy is looked down upon by of the RC community and rightfully so. As for myself I stored all my 1/2a motors, carefully oiled it all down and switched to electrics. I still get my need for thunder and lighting from my big gas planes but in between times I break out the EP 300 or the wattage 182 and after flying (and taxing back to the flight box ) I get all the ouuu's and aawws from the peanut gallery. It may be that the motors are going away but the planes are in abundance. There are more 40-41" balsa or foam full house RC planes on the market than ever before since I've been in the hobby and thats kinda nice.

jds

cyclops2

Bipe , thanks for reminding us that a small 1/2A MUFFLED CORRECTLY is 1/ 10 as loud as a engine 10 X as large with a correct muffler.

NorfolkSouthern

I have never heard anything nearly as loud as a DA-150 with an in-cowl muffler, or one of those pitts-style things. I used to fly a Cox PT-19, and it was MUCH quieter than one of those, even though the .049 didn't have a muffler. I'm not knocking the big stuff, nor am I complaining about electrics but why can't folks with weed whacker engines install mufflers like the rest of us?

NorfolkSouthern

cyclops2

Because the ones who remove the mufflers NEED to have people look at them.

They are special. Ask them.

Bipe Flyer

My loudest plane is my Bulldog Pitts with an OS .46SF and a Pitts muffler. I love it, but it is noisy. The thing about pitch is that lower frequencies travel better, so a screaming .049 might be irritating up close but when out flying it's not as loud, whereas a Zenoah G62 still sounds plenty loud at 200'.

mylamo

My Feedback: (1)

Those 100cc earth shakers quieter than my .03 to
.15s ? Less irritating ? No way no how.

NorfolkSouthern

Like I've seen others post, it's those big motorcycle engines without mufflers that will close more fields than any other form of power that I know of. And, they'll ruin it for electrics, just as well as glow-powered 4-strokes. So yes, electrics may be the decline of 1/2A engines, but it's the big gassers that I am sure will end the hobby for most of us. Neighborhoods have limited patience with noise from big gas engines. But when that patience is exhausted, then there goes the field. As for 1/2A sized electric park flyers: Watch out for them strollers and bicycles!

NorfolkSouthern

Jesus Bolt

Dear 1/2A forum, this is James from Australia. I will never go electric and will keep 1/2 A's alive,but I do need some help:

There is an electric Christen Eagle for sale, you can see it at http://www.bananahobby.com/1066.html

It's basic specs are:

Wingspan: 853mm (33.6 in)
Overall Length: 738mm (29 in)
Flying Weight: 680g (24 oz)

I'm an F3A & F3C Master, so this territory is completely new to me! HELP! My question is what would be the best glow engine for this model? Also, I have seen all the Cox engines have their fuel tank on the back plate. Is there an engine that I can install with the tank on the GOG of the plane? as the weight through the flight of the petrol would really screw things up. Also, are there any engines this small with a carby? or am I dreaming?.....

This may be of interest to some:

As we all know, the gyro on heli's is probably the most critical electronic element. There are available now Micro Piezo gyros with no moving parts and weigh next to nothing (Blue Arrow).

What I'm going to do with the Eagle is insert a gyro for elevator, rudder and aileron. So, in theory if you set a straight flight path and let go of the Tx sticks, the gyros should collectively compensate for the model being thrown around by wind. Now, I'm not expecting perfection from the gyro's but they should 'calm down' a potentially very twitchy model that would get knocked about. Combine this with a good expo curve and we're done. I have never heard of this being done so it will be a good project. But as I said above, for me, the missing link of information is what engine configuration to use.

I would greatly appreciate everyones thought's and recommendation and once complete I will promise to shoot a video of the Eagle flying, rolling circle's, kaos strikes and anything else I can think of.

Best Regards to all

James
Melbourne
Australia

EASYTIGER

My Feedback: (119)

Agreed. No way no how. Chainsaw motors going overhead are VERY noisy. VERY.

That being said, 1/2a engines(norvels with mufflers being excepted) are extremely noisy and particularly annoying, too.
I don't care what the DB meter says, guys can fly 40 sized planes with mufflers all day, nobody cares, but the moment you fire up a TeeDee 049, everybody is shouting "ouch!"
Noise is not a factor for some, it's a big factor for others. Depends where you fly. But I don't kid myself into thinking a screaming 01 is the same joy to my ears to everyone else! Nor do I think comparisons to other types of engines is very useful. The big gassers may be a real noise problem...but so are the 1/2a engines.

ptulmer

My Feedback: (5)

That's an awful big bird for a Cox reedie. Look around for a Norvel .074 or a good and light .10 to .15. It's probably got 400 or so square inches, so it will fly ok with more weight. Probably more wind resistant with more weight.

If it were me, I'd buy the airframe first and inspect it carefully before buying the engine. It may not hold up long term to the additional stress of a glow engine. I'd probably go with an OS .15LA, too.

Bipe Flyer

I agree with PT.
I'd use a Norvel .074 engine minimum but probably better with a .15.
A buddy of mine has used gyros on his small electric models. They do work, but they didn't solve any problem that couldn't have been fixed by turning down the rates. I would only really consider a gyro on the rudder if you find it difficult to takeoff without it torquing all over the place. You're expecting the plane to be twitchy and out of control - don't. It's not going to fly like a pattern plane, but you shouldn't need all those gyros.

Wayne C

I realize that for many people big gassers are all that, but I think they're way dangerous. That much weight at that speed could really cause some pain. Forget cut fingers those props could take off a hand. They're also way expensive. (Yeah, I know some people can afford them but thats part of what scares me. Just because someone can pay for the big toys doesn't mean that they will play safely.) Most of them seem way louder to me than any 1/2a, especially at a distance.

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

Just don't let me catch any noise complainers adding to our planets' noise polution with gas lawn mowers, leaf blowers, fire arms, 4th of July fireworks, barking dogs 'til dawn or anything else that is as loud or louder than my .049 engine at 300 feet.

SGC

PT, Some people complain about the noise , just to stop others haveing fun. One my M8s was playing boats ion a park pond and had a visite from the constabulary, they had had a complaint about the noise his boat was makeing--- he was useing his R/C sailboat!!!!!!!!!!
Stewart

EASYTIGER

My Feedback: (119)

Unfortunatly, life is unfair and does not work that way.

jetpack

My Feedback: (1)

I say let the Speed 400 companies keep plugging...keeps my 1/2A converison ideas wide open.

flyinrog

My Feedback: (1)

Yep, and although I like my motorcycles, have 3 of them , not a weekend goes by I dont hear a dozen times...Harleys over a mile away!!..I gotta a guy that lives behind me that blows the leaves out of the woods , I kid you not, and I sleep during the day...its a good thing I dont own a gun[>:]...was at the field once flying a mini stick .020...I lost sight of it, but keep looking where I thought it was..someone said I can hear, it where is it?...I just kept looking up , finally it came into view so I just pretended I could see it the whole time[&:]...Rog

Jesus Bolt

Freaky, back a little to Cap10b's post flying a 40% DA 150 powered Comp Arf on cannister mufflers swinging a 32x10 MejzliK CF propeller. guess what I fly?????

Me: 40% DA-150 Comp-ARF with twin cannisters but a 3 Blade 29x7 Bolly. The proof, look at the pick attached!!

AND our initials are BOTH "JDS" If anyone is an actuary, could they please work out the odds of this. I'm freaked out!


cheers
JDS

ZoomZoom-RCU

[8D]Never fear my friends. 1/2-A will never die. I am living proof. I started tinkering with the little guys for the first time in my life only a few years ago, and after trying to make airframes and engines/batteries match in electric construction, (I design and fly my own designs), experimenting and ultimately switching to 1/2-A was a breath of much needed fresh air. Dont get me wrong, I have a cute electric GWS Tiger Moth thats fun for a quick fly.......but electrics SUCK!!!!! when you are a designer and not buying something off the shelf. And unless you have some sort of Masters in Electronics, prepare to waste much money and time trying to get a particular systems weight and power to work with a given airframe. I know I know...you electric guys are gonna go...."well you didn't use motocalc"....I did....or "go to hobby people's site or others and use that as a rule of thumb for engines and systems for plane size ranges"....I did. And I know a fair amount about electronics too boot. I think there's some fudging by the way in advertising (as there is with some glow companies) as to what airframes can use what systems....anyway thats another rant. Long story short, I had no trouble fitting appropriately sized engines to airframes with 1/2-A. Not only that....the engines cost me $7.00 bucks.....hmmm...electric brushless....$30-$50. The system battery cost me $5.00 at the local supermarket...I use duracell 9-volts. System batterey for electric.....another $30 -$40, and its a friggin lead brick that never leaves your plane as the flight progresses! (I know....go LIPO they're super light...but thats even steeper$$!!). The rx/servo electronics will run around $40.00 for both types so that element is the same for both. Anyway, you get the picture. It was pure ecstasy when I trashed all of the electric complication for a sweet little Sure Start, a two ounce tank (which by the way gives me 30 minute flights!.... top that with a scale electric AC!!!!) and the much lightened airframes that once foundered with electric power leapt into the sky and stayed there for half an hour....with aerobatics no less! This gentlemen, is why 1/2-A will never die. I know I will be bashed for simply "not understanding electrics" etc etc...say what you may.......but you cant beat the little engines. And noise be damned....it simply helps us echo-locate our aircraft!

Regards ZZ.

Jesus Bolt

Hey Bipe, it's a real long shot, but we have a great YS rep in Australia he's 'finger on the pulse' fantastic. He is always in contact seeing how we're using the YS's, the problem's we have and the success. And best of all he's always open to suggestions. About six years ago, we complained about the lack of a diaphram pump running off the crankcase pressure on the backplate. That was our overall request as the fuel flow was in consistent. Well, it's taken a hell of along time, but they have just released the .63FZ 4-stroke. No pump, but a very smart move in placing the fuel regulator away from any hotspots (remembering that 4-s's rely on their large torque curve, not outright RPM and therefore get really hot. we run an OS P8 plug (the coldest plug OS make) and 25% nitro. The engine is heavier but it's an absolute dream, just keeps on pulling with massive torque (prop: 13'6, at 8-10,000rpm) Sorry digress from 1/2A. My point being, get in touch with your YS rep and build a case for a mirco 4-stroke. YS are the masters of 4-s's. You might get lucky and that would be an awsome engine.

ASP make a FS30AR, 4-Stroke, 0.300 cu. in.

That's pretty small....what size Bipe would you put this in ??????

ALways optimistic!
jds

Bipe Flyer

Thanks for the tip James. It'd be a long shot for sure, but it never hurts to ask.

I have a Saito .30 in a little Pitts, so I guess I'd put it in something like that.
Here's a link to the build thread. http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/fb.asp?m=3382269

[link=http://donatelli.net/pittss2s25/Pitts-S2S.wmv][/link]
[link=http://donatelli.net/pittss2s25/Pitts-S2S.wmv]Pitts Video[/link]