Jim_Purcha

My Feedback: (8)

Who thinks that small electrics and brushless motors killed 1/2 A, .... maybe that's why we're not seeing the Norvels anymore. I have a norvel big mig I would like to use, but I only have the one glow plug?

Andrew

A dropin replacement that will give equal or better performance is the Galbreath head/NELSON plug combination -- both are available from Larry Driskill at [link=http://www.kittingittogether.com]Kitting It Together[/link]

combatpigg

My Feedback: (3)

In the good old days, you could pick any middle to upper class neighborhood in this country and do a house to house search for 1/2A engines and probably find one in every tenth house. It seems like most guys [that I've talked to apart from hobbyists] in my age group either had one or knew someone who did. You gotta think that XMAS mornings are dominated by RTF electrics nowadays.
For the modeler who wants to delve into more complex, intricate, tiny, fast.......you name it, electric is the most logical choice. Just like those side shows at the carnivals, 1/2A glow will always be around to some degree. A lot of men nowadays would look at a wing panel with a castor oil puddle on it and say," EEUU, THAT'S SOO YUCKY!"

Rick W

My Feedback: (20)

[&o]

That's good for the serious 1/2 Aer at this time. I went to a swapmeet in Akron, Ohio and they were almost givign 1/2a stuff away. Reedies with glow plugs for as low as $5.00. TDs for $10 to $15. For a few bucks I could have stocked up for a lifetime. Yea I would have to agree it did it's share of damage but it brought a lot of 1/2a stuff out of the closets. As for the future who knows...

Also helped out of the bigger engines, bought a ST G15..$10.00, OS 25 FSR NIB $40. new JETT 36 $170.00, Oh Yea, I had a GOOD Day, can't wait until the next one. Bring on those electrics....and people buy off of E-Bay...

Oh yea got the new CNC lathe the other day, will post a picture of it in the next couple of days. Getting ready to turn a reverse rotation crank for a Webra 36 for Control line carrier. I fly 1/2a R/C and CL.


Rick

subarubrat

My Feedback: (1)

I don't think that electric killed 1/2a but it did fill the niche. If you think about it, 1/2a was pretty much out of the hobby shops and Sears catalogs as the entry R/C rig by the late 80's. Electric as a practical part of R/C didn't really go anywhere until the late 90's with the Speed 400 revolution and the leap in battery and ESC technology. I think that the prices of 4 channel gear helped bring the cost of larger planes down to the point that giving up a throttle and the ability to take off and land controlably just wasn't worth the price difference. Also ARFs were mostly in the 1/2a catagory until the mid 80's when manufacturers started making ARFs in the .15~.40 size that were not much more expensive than the 1/2a offerings, that probably had the biggest impact on 1/2a.

Sadly the technology to make 1/2a really work came too late after the market went away. With todays radio gear, engines and materials things like ducted fans, reliable idles, and all the many features of larger models are now possible in 1/2a but not many people seem interested in exploring that.

My roots are in 1/2a and today I still have a few that I fly because they are so different and you will probably be the only one at the field with one. I mostly fly giant scale gas and smaller electric with no glow anymore other than 1/2a.

tangerine-jack

I don't think electric has killed 1/2A yet, maybe just stuck a knife in it's heart and is sitting back laughing watching it bleed to death. The world moves on as technology does, otherwise we would be using clockwork ornithopters.

I love 1/2A glow, but soon I will have to like electric if I still want to fly, which is what I am in the hobby for in the first place.

Deadstik

My Feedback: (8)

Just an observation, but at the Winston Swap meet a couple of weeks ago, you could buy a small electric for a SONG......I asked most of the guys why they were selling them and the normal response was, "just tired of it".... I found that very interesting since here in Carolina, the 1/2a planes are alive and well..you still can't find an .049 cox head in a hobby shop.. but.. what is in a hobby shop these days???......I think that the folks who really like 1/2 A will always have a couple around.... Yep, I fly Pattern, but getting together with the Carolina Crew is one thing that I really look forward to..... Someday my Cox Fairchild will be pushed a bit too far... and then I'll have to break out the Centurion.....but in the meantime, I think that midsize electric will continue to grow... and that the "toys" will stay at that stage... just "toys"......


Deadstik

BMatthews

I think you're totally right that electric is killing off 1/2A and having a goodly poke at the 15 to 25 size market to boot. The prices of a motor and pack are pretty comparable to the cost of a good 1/2A engine these days thanks to the flood of cheap product coming out of the orient.

It's only the old school that grew up with the smell of castor and the scream of a 6x3 in their ears that really has a love for these little jobs. Sure there's one or two newcomers but for the most part the new small model flyers are going electric. And if they got bored of their models then they would have been bored of a glow model as well. The glow fliers are the ones that are totally addicted and won't ever kick the habit so it's no wonder that those flying small glow are continuing.

As for your glow plugs don't worry. The community here won't ever let you stay down for long. I suspect that if there's two of us left and one guy burns out the second to last glow plug in creation that the other 1/2A guy would take a plug out of his second engine to give to the first guy so that they could each fly until the next one burns out and then they'd take turns with the last plug in creation until it too burned out. So if you need a plug to keep flying then just ask.

Raymond LeFlyr

My Feedback: (2)

Well, I have thought about this situation long and hard - but remember that for me thinking "long and hard" means 15-minutes while watching Sesame Street. First, the electric motors that I saw for sale at Winston were not what I am currently flying/buying. It was mostly older stuff and given how easy it is to ruin an electric motor (I lubricate some of mine before EACH run) I would think "long and hard" about the "value" of a used electric motor (ESC or battery pack).

As for people saying their electrics didn't fly well or whatever, I'm so sorry. But in 48 years of more or less keeping up with "the next big thing" in miniature aviation I can tell you that I can get more raw fun cheaper, with less build time thanks to outrunners and li-pos than I EVER even came close to before. Yes, cheaper.

Right now I can't think of a reason for me to ever purchase another .049 engine - reedie or otherwise. I might spring for an .061 or .074 but not anytime soon. I'd like to see evidence of a steady source. As for Cox engines, I, like most of youse-all, have more of them than I know what to do with. Yes, I will keep building and flying models for those engines that I already have and enjoy running.

Here's an example of what electrics did for me. I love them Littlest Sticks. I wore out two of them that were powered by good .010s. (Yes, I could have used TD .020 for more oomph but I like my .010s.) A couple of years ago I was fortunate enough to come into possession of one of Bob's Wee Stick kits. I just didn't need two models almost the same so I put in a cheap GWS geared-brushed motor and a cheap 2-cel li-po pack AND that model came alive! I had logged hundreds and hundreds of flights with this design previously that I knew very well and all of a sudden I'm doing stuff I could never even consider before. Yeah it was a tough pill to swallow - but darn that plane is fun and its not becoming soggy and has never had a drop of cleaner applied to it.

NorfolkSouthern

I have to agree that .049 has been replaced with mostly electric and LiPo. I know of one guy who has a couple, and I see him fly both models but then he spends half of his time charging the batteries too. The funny thing is, I used to fly rubber band airplanes all the time (North Pacific Sleek Streeks, Guillows, among others) and those small electrics don't look much different. I even played with one on a simulator, it had the reversible prop for 4-dimensional flight. It was nothing to get too excited about, really. I mean, the simulation was accurate and the plane flew like a piece of paper (a radio controlled one, though). Maybe I could buy a ParkZone Piper Cub or Decathlon, but I'm just wondering: Could one of those Herr Engineering rubber-powered J3 Cub Lazar kits be just as good, yet cost considerably less?

NorfolkSouthern

subarubrat

My Feedback: (1)

Electric will let you do things that were simply not possible with glow. Look at something like the GWS A-10, twin ducted fan in perfect sync with 10 min flight times and no need for fuel proofing, simply not possible with glow. These incredible micro electric helis that fly for 8~12 min and are fully aerobatic... well, can you imagine trying to get a teedee 020 to run a heli like that? It just wouldn't be capable of a fraction of what the electric would. (that said, I would absolutly have to have one that worked even a little bit) Electric is superior to 1/2a in all respects in a technical sense. Trying to pretend that they aren't is pumping a dry well. However, appreciating the magic of an internal combustion engine that small is certainly a good thing.

NorfolkSouthern

But of course, electrics are super techie superior. I'll have to give the poor critters a break: At least they're not like the $2,500.00 Play Station 3s you see on EBay!

NorfolkSouthern

tangerine-jack

I don't think its a question of glow technology vs. electric tech for you might as well compare a sundial to an MP3. The glow engines are dying out, that is a truth of the hobby, and being replaced by better technology as it should be. We must advance the hobby or it will die.

HOWEVER, caveat, and disclaimer! There is nothing, but nothing, more satisfying than the buzz of an internal combustion engine with nicely engineered mechanical bits screaming at a zillion rpm. slinging hot exhaust and oil everywhere. There is something primal about it all. Ungk!, me got pistons, me better than battery, me get burned!

Wayne C

I will imediately concede the practical superiority of electric provided that a reliable power source is available. How many of you guys have gasoline powered circular saws or diesel powered impact wrenches lying about? Any of you guys remember the piston drill that was advertised back in the seventies. How many of those do you see? Electric forklifts are now the standard in warehouse lift truck use. I live close to a coal mine that uses huge walking draglines--thay're electric. Railroad locomotives have had electric drives for many years--that big loud super charged diesel engine just pulls the generator. It was just a matter of time till someone figured out how to efficiently use electric for model aviation. It will be no surprise when it crowds out much of the glow market. This summer I saw some electric helicopters that were amazing. I keep thinking that any day we will see a rapid increase in the use of electric automobiles.


After saying all that, I just love and enjoy internal combustion engines. Oh I like model engines but that's not all. Cars boats chainsaws trucks tractors etc. For me the engine is half or more of the fun. Some people need an engine to power their model. I need a model to give my engines something to do. (ok I like rubber powered models and sailplanes but thats another topic)

NorfolkSouthern

Technical superiority aside, some folks are just bored with electrics and are aren't interested. I have a cordless screwdriver. I have an electric dryer. I'm not knocking electric stuff. But I do believe that $350.00 for what is essentially a Nintendo with wings is a waste of money. I would rather blow my money on a train set. At least Lionel holds its value better.

NorfolkSouthern

ptulmer

My Feedback: (5)

TJ, I've heard this comparison before, but it doesn't really do it for me. There's room for improvement in both techs, and they are nothing alike. Glow won't die out for the same reasons you list at the bottom of your post. Some folks (most maybe) just love the magic in an internal combustion engine. It's not easy, it's a challenge. Much like scratch building or plans building. 1/2a on the other hand may make a comeback since the advent of 1/2a combat kits. That's just the shot in the arm we need for some new tech. Competition drives the hobby market.

tangerine-jack

Too true, that is the point I am trying to make. The technologies cannot be compared but must be viewed independently. I truly hope that glow makes a technological leap and sticks around, but the truth is that the buying public wants the new "off the shelf" flyers that all they need to do is charge and fly. In the end the consumer holds the key to life or death of a product.

I will play around with electric for a number of very good reasons, but I will never abandon the magic of ICE and the smell of glow fuel and castor oil until the last possible moment before it is extinct.

ptulmer

My Feedback: (5)

Too true. The way I see it is that's a whole new market segment. The popularity of off-the-shelf products by people who wouldn't otherwise have ever flown a model airplane has effected the availability of the "regular" items in the same size range because manufacturers will flock to where the most money is. I don't think it changes the actual number of people who would fly a particular style of airplane (say... 1/2a glow). But it does change availability of the products, which in turn changes the number of people flying those styles.

So, if Norvel came out the gate with new technology, fantastic engines, etc., more people would fly glow 1/2a. Who knows, maybe Norvel is going to come out with a line of brushless motors. Talk about the death of 1/2a... That's when I'd admit it and move on.

Andrew

Show me the money certainly drives the market. Realistically, we can't expect manufacturers to continue to produce products that have low sales figures. For the 1/2A engine crowd, it has been a case of bad timing -- when truly lightweight radio equipment became mainstream. reliable and affordable and we had a decent powered engine with good throttle control, eflight started having a major impact on small engine profits.

When I was growing up, the sound of a COX was commonplace in the neighborhood and kids within hearing distance usually showed up waiting for a chance to try their hand. Unfortunately, that seldom happens today. Can't fly in the backyard -- too much noise. Can't let just any kid watch or fly -- too much liability. Can't fly at the local park -- too many restrictions. Admittedly, flipping a switch on clean power is much easier than running an IC engine, but I think environmental and legal restrictions have also impacted what and how we fly today.

DanCarey

With my Cox's i drilled and tapped out the head and added a standard glow plug, a lot cheaper and they last longer

propbuster

My Feedback: (1)

While I come from the old school when Cox was king and I flew 1/2a control line as a kid, I'm just getting tired of spending too much time working on them and getting them to run reliably. I've never been a big fan of electrics but after playing with the Aero Ace Bipe and now the Jet version, I'm thinking "leckys" may be the way to go for me when it comes to 1/2a from now on. I still love the sound of a screaming TD, but unlike my .40 and .60 size engines (which almost never give me any trouble) Cox engines are taking some of the fun out of flying for me. These days, I sure don't have as much time to spend flying and it just seems a lot easier to charge a battery and flip a switch than flip a 5x3 prop a hundred times.

Wayne C

"Cox engines are taking some of the fun out of flying for me. These days, I sure don't have as much time to spend flying and it just seems a lot easier to charge a battery and flip a switch than flip a 5x3 prop a hundred times."



On the other hand, I also don't have much time for flying these days. I tend to go out and look at my stuff or maybe run an engine a few times instead of going somewhere to fly. In any case, I usually run an engine at the house for a few minutes before heading out to fly. As stated before, I like engines. If I didn't like engines so much and flying was my thing I might go electric.

nekked_man_2000

My argument is, and always has been this. I have a cox .020 teedee that I bought around 1993(used by the way) on an ace littlest stick, I take it out and fly it now and again for a Small event, or just to get a little attention when the giants are at the field. Show me a battery pack that would have lasted 13 years+ and sit on the shelf for months at a time and still be usable every time I want to use it, and I'll buy it. Ditto for my .15 powered wild thing that still has a strap on muffler, and My .40fp that I bought in 1991. The .40 fp has lots of gallons of fuel run through it, I still use that engine all the time. How many battery packs would I need to get in 5 flights a day easily 2 days a month for 15 years? I don't care what anyone says, I would have had a lot more money in battery packs than I've spent on fuel.

I just hope that the electrics aren't doing to flying, and SMALL flying especially, what the plastic cox arf control line planes did to control line. I know reasonable people who fly rc that believe control line is just !QUOT!toys!QUOT!, nobody but kids do that right? Most rc pilots couldn't keep a CL plane in the air for a full tank, much less attempt a loop...or God forbid keep it level with controls that don't self center. I look at all these guys flying 6 oz flat plate airplanes that are basically indestructible, and do aerobatics that can only be done with 6 oz indestructible planes...and wonder if they could even fly my screamin' .25 size P-51, especially land it. But more importantly the availability of all of the !QUOT!toy!QUOT! rc planes that you can get at Wal-Mart or wherever (I'm guilty, I have 2 Astro Hogg aero ace bipes), and thinking that's all there is to it, just like so many people got that first Cox Pt-19 and thought, that's all there is to CL.

Only time will tell.

Austin

Just one of those guys who thinks it's a little sad that I can get attention at the flying field because !QUOT!you built that plane?!QUOT!.

Wayne C

Hey Austin, Mesquite's less than 100 miles from here. Do you fly controlline? Where?

Mr67Stang

My car if you can't tell by my name here is a '67 Ford Mustang. That car is 3 years older than me and I have owned this car for 16 years. My point being there will always be a following of the old ways and if you show enough "young people" how cool this stuff is you would be suprised with the response you will get. Just this last Saturday I was at the feild and a new guy, younger than me, was flying his home made foamy electric pusher prop F-22. Guess what? He was more interested in my 30 in wing span grease bomb Dare models Oriol FF converted to R/C. Just show them.