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NORVEL News (bad news)

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Old 04-25-2007, 02:48 PM
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Andrew
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Default NORVEL News (bad news)

There was a post in the 1/2A forum of the "other group" that quoted a recent email from SIG concerning NORVEL's status. SIG indicated they had received an email from NORVEL on April 12, 2007 stating essentially that NORVEL lacks the resources to restart production. It would only be possible with a 60 to 80% increase in price.

Apparently, a few inventory parts manufactured before the factory was relocated are available and SIG will attempt to import these.

NORVEL, RIP!



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Old 04-25-2007, 03:14 PM
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Default RE: NORVEL News (bad news)

Andrew, if they had to sell 9/16A engines for $80, I don't think they would sell enough of them. I wonder what prevents AP from coming out with a REVLITE engine? I would pay the extra cost, but I don't think I could single handedly keep them in business. I was standing at the cash register with an old guy who says he has cases full of NIB COX and NORVEL engines. I urged him to put some of his stock up for sale, the timing is right.....RIGHT NOW.

If he waits too long to sell off he will be either [A] dead, or [B] his market for the old glow engines will be dead, too.
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Old 04-25-2007, 03:28 PM
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Default RE: NORVEL News (bad news)

Dang, if I could get a con-rod and a prop scew somewhere, I could have a perfectly fine .074. I hope some of those inventory parts are the ones I need.
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Old 04-25-2007, 04:40 PM
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Default RE: NORVEL News (bad news)

People are getting those kind of prices on e-Bay now...I'd rather pay the price increase than do without the .074s and their parts. It is in my opinion the finest small engine for .10 size sport planes there is.
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Old 04-25-2007, 05:23 PM
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Default RE: NORVEL News (bad news)

I`ve got a spare conrod for the 074.
PM me your address and i`ll send it.

Stefan
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Old 04-25-2007, 06:18 PM
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Default RE: NORVEL News (bad news)

Stefan - Any chance you have 2 spare conrods for an .074? I'm short one as well!

EG
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Old 04-25-2007, 06:31 PM
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I'm kinda disappointed, not so much in norvel/sig, but in the few 1/2A guys around. I don't spend a ton of money on this hobby, especially in the 1/2A realm. I think these are the most cost effective machines in the game, and I'm willing to spend the money on a key component of a great 1/2A plane.

What did I buy my Norvel .074 for? 65 bucks shipped? 70 maybe? I don't even remember, it was a 50 dollar engine.

I'll pay 100 bucks, 120 bucks for a quality engine, size of the engines should not be involved in the price. My engines seem to last a long time (I've been flying RC for only about 3 years, still have all my engines, they work fine, even with a little bump or two), and I'm willing to blow a little cash on a good one. Airframes come and go, but engines (pending you don't junk them into the ground regularly) stick around.

It's hurts when my 'toys' as some people put it, are undervalued. I spend a good amount of my 'alone time' making my airplanes 'just right', they are a source of fun, and pride, its a classy hobby. It hurts even worse when a company who sells a chunk of our hobby says 'eh, our customers are cheap clowns, do not bother making a quality product'. If the Norvel was available at any price, people will buy them, it will just be a little more prized and loved.

eniac
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Old 04-25-2007, 07:15 PM
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Default RE: NORVEL News (bad news)

Can anybody tell me what thread size the .074 prop screw is so I can head to the hardware store and pick one up?
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Old 04-25-2007, 08:34 PM
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Default RE: NORVEL News (bad news)

I spent some time in Toledo with one of the Sig guys and he commented that Norvel had dried up and that they were effectively done with them.

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Old 04-25-2007, 10:09 PM
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What I said I`d do for WASPS is make a rod blank out of 2024 that he can file into shape. The stock.074 rods are a bit weak so if you`re replacing one, you might as well doa decent job of it so it won`t bend again. If I make one, I can make two.
Wasps- If I send them both to you, will you forward one to EROC? That way we`ll save a bit on international postage.

Anyone else need one?

Stefan
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Old 04-26-2007, 09:08 AM
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Default RE: NORVEL News (bad news)

The Norvel .074 revLite uses M4 x 0.7 mm prop screw, 30mm long including head.
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Old 04-26-2007, 12:02 PM
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ORIGINAL: eniac

...I'll pay 100 bucks, 120 bucks for a quality engine, size of the engines should not be involved in the price. My engines seem to last a long time (I've been flying RC for only about 3 years, still have all my engines, they work fine, even with a little bump or two), and I'm willing to blow a little cash on a good one. Airframes come and go, but engines (pending you don't junk them into the ground regularly) stick around...

eniac
Excellent point. The fact that a .25 costs more than a .15 and a .40 costs more than a .25 is totally artificial and solely due to marketing strategies. Studies have proven, too, that many consumers sense they are being cheated if smaller products don't cost less, or visa versa, even though they cost almost the same to manufacture. It has become a psychologically ingrained characteristic of our buying habits. Stepped pricing is even worse with things like ESCs where a 25 amp example costs more than the 15 amp model. As eniac stated, just be cause it's an .074 doesn't mean it's not worth the cost of a quality .46. It is use value and quality, not artificial price stepping and marketing strategies that really matter when it comes to things like our engines.
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Old 04-26-2007, 12:17 PM
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Default RE: NORVEL News (bad news)

But the Dave the cost to manufacture a product depends upon the size of the production run. There are raw material costs; setup, machining, assembly and inspection costs in volved in completing a production run of engines. Maybe Norvel couldn't get raw material at pricing they did three years ago. Maybe market has dropped significantly since the electric revolution, the sales volume would have to reflect an increase in price due to a smaller market share.

I would like to see some plugs to from Norvel. I've bought two adapters because I only have "one" real norvel plug. I haven't even run my engine because it's been sitting around waiting for extra plugs to come to the LHS. Not going to see that to soon.

Jim
ORIGINAL: rainedave


ORIGINAL: eniac

...I'll pay 100 bucks, 120 bucks for a quality engine, size of the engines should not be involved in the price. My engines seem to last a long time (I've been flying RC for only about 3 years, still have all my engines, they work fine, even with a little bump or two), and I'm willing to blow a little cash on a good one. Airframes come and go, but engines (pending you don't junk them into the ground regularly) stick around...

eniac
Excellent point. The fact that a .25 costs more than a .15 and a .40 costs more than a .25 is totally artificial and solely due to marketing strategies. Studies have proven, too, that many consumers sense they are being cheated if smaller products don't cost less, or visa versa, even though they cost almost the same to manufacture. It has become a psychologically ingrained characteristic of our buying habits. Stepped pricing is even worse with things like ESCs where a 25 amp example costs more than the 15 amp model. As eniac stated, just be cause it's an .074 doesn't mean it's not worth the cost of a quality .46. It is use value and quality, not artificial price stepping and marketing strategies that really matter when it comes to things like our engines.
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Old 04-26-2007, 12:29 PM
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Default RE: NORVEL News (bad news)

My LHS has some Norvel parts sitting on the shelf. If I can remember I will tkae a look next time aI am there for thsoe that need them. I think they may have been plugs, but I am not sure.
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Old 04-26-2007, 12:31 PM
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Default RE: NORVEL News (bad news)

Jim, I agree that demand and raw materials costs effect pricing. The point I was trying to make is that the mindset that dictates that an .074 should automatically be priced lower than a .46 is suspect. If 90% of all my planes fly with .074s, for example, and these engines last five or six seasons, then its displacement becomes irrelevant. It's not a matter of engine size, but of engine reliability, relative power and longevity. If I get as much enjoyment and return from my .074 plane as another person gets from their forty-size plane then what difference does it make how big or small the engine is? If they both cost the same to get into the air, so what? I'm simply agreeing with eniac that paying $75 or $80 for an .074 - if that's what you like to fly - isn't outrageous. People who run .46s expect to pay that much and how can anyone prove they have more fun, or get more for their money? That's all I'm trying to say.

David
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Old 04-26-2007, 01:08 PM
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Default RE: NORVEL News (bad news)

I think that most of the time Cox .049 TD's cost more than many .15 sized engines. If I were Sig I would simply ask them to make enough to sell them at maybe 40% higher than the old prices, that is if making more would bring the cost down.
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Old 04-26-2007, 02:15 PM
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Default RE: NORVEL News (bad news)


ORIGINAL: rainedave

If I get as much enjoyment and return from my .074 plane as another person gets from their forty-size plane then what difference does it make how big or small the engine is? If they both cost the same to get into the air, so what? I'm simply agreeing with eniac that paying $75 or $80 for an .074 - if that's what you like to fly - isn't outrageous. People who run .46s expect to pay that much and how can anyone prove they have more fun, or get more for their money? That's all I'm trying to say.

David
David's point is well made, but this has been hashed over several times before. Larry Driskill made a valid argument some time back: differences in materials cost, large engine vs. small engine, is not a significant part of the differential. In many cases, the level of precision required is actually higher for the smaller CID engines than for the larger and machining costs could actually be higher, so we shouldn't expect costs to be that different between displacements.

While we get tied up in the "bigger is better" concept of pricing, like David said, if I get $75 of fun out of an engine, then it shouldn't matter if it is a .74 or a .074.
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Old 04-26-2007, 02:49 PM
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ORIGINAL: W.A.S.P.S-Flyer

Dang, if I could get a con-rod and a prop scew somewhere, I could have a perfectly fine .074. I hope some of those inventory parts are the ones I need.
Check with lite machines helicopters..they may still have glow heads and con rods left, it was a major issue for a while in their heli's...Rog

Oh and japanman as long as your firin off parts go ahead and whip me up a whole .074...has anybody done any mods to the thunder tiger .GP-07
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Old 04-26-2007, 02:54 PM
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Default RE: NORVEL News (bad news)

I actually paid at least $65.00 CAD for my Norvel Big Mig anyway. A 80% jump in price would be too high for me at $121 dollars. Than again it's cheaper than most brushless electric and some esc's.


ORIGINAL: rainedave

Jim, I agree that demand and raw materials costs effect pricing. The point I was trying to make is that the mindset that dictates that an .074 should automatically be priced lower than a .46 is suspect. If 90% of all my planes fly with .074s, for example, and these engines last five or six seasons, then its displacement becomes irrelevant. It's not a matter of engine size, but of engine reliability, relative power and longevity. If I get as much enjoyment and return from my .074 plane as another person gets from their forty-size plane then what difference does it make how big or small the engine is? If they both cost the same to get into the air, so what? I'm simply agreeing with eniac that paying $75 or $80 for an .074 - if that's what you like to fly - isn't outrageous. People who run .46s expect to pay that much and how can anyone prove they have more fun, or get more for their money? That's all I'm trying to say.

David
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Old 04-26-2007, 04:19 PM
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Default RE: NORVEL News (bad news)

Ok, so you can't get any Norvels now........ So what is a man to do? The Chinese CS engine is a killer, but very expensive. What else is out there. Don't give me the old "There are plenty of old Cox engines out there" business.[>:] I want a real, throttled, 1/2A engine with plenty of poop to spin a prop. Any suggestions? Web links? What are te free flight guys running? Do they have r/c versions of those engines? What about the 1/2A C/L Speed guys? Hello?

Isn't it about time we got off the Norvel soap box? They were good engines, there gone now, let's move on to something useful. Just a thought.
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Old 04-26-2007, 04:48 PM
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Default RE: NORVEL News (bad news)

there is the AP line, and the TT .047. That, and the os .10 are about all you have.

Jett makes a few, Brodak still makes some, then there are the fora's and cyclons, but those are the expensive ones..
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Old 04-26-2007, 04:59 PM
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Sure thing Japanman!

eroc144, pm me your address and i'll send it in the mail when I get them.
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Old 04-26-2007, 05:04 PM
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Yeah AP does make the wasp .061, the hornet .09, and the yellow jacket .15 ,,never have heard anything about any of them other than the wasp though, BSarge has one and it has plenty'o'power...Rog
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Old 04-26-2007, 11:20 PM
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Default RE: NORVEL News (bad news)

I almost hate to ask but what about the Italian Cipolla line of engines? They have at least 3 different .09s and a Tiger Wasp .061 that looks pretty snazzy just from a tiny picture.

Robert
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Old 04-27-2007, 06:24 AM
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Default RE: NORVEL News (bad news)

Do you have a link to them?
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