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norvel setup/won't start

Old 03-31-2003, 06:43 AM
  #1  
azenigma
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Default norvel setup/won't start

I have a new Norvel .061 r/c, and am having some troubles getting it started. After using my hand for a hour or so with no luck, I tried using an electric screwdriver to spin the engine. All I have gotten for my troubles is a little smoke coming out of the muffler, and one time the prop jumped a little when hooking up the glow starter. In the picture I have the muffler and pressure tube to the tank disconnected, the tank is also lifted out of the plane so that you can see it. Is there anything that I am doing wrong?

Duane
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Old 03-31-2003, 07:10 AM
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flyinrog
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Default norvel setup/won't start

well, did you ."if all else fails follow instructions"?, I doubt the screwdriver would turn fast enough to do anything but was it turning the right way,, was it set to loosen the screw? ie counterclockwise? needle set right at ~2 1/2 turns out?
if it popped then your igniter should be charged ok, but check it anyway and the glow head too.........hope it helps... did you try a drop of fuel in the carb?........Rog
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Old 03-31-2003, 07:16 AM
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William Robison
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Default norvel setup/won't start

azenigma

It has been my experience that these little &^$% will not start worth a %^ with a NiCad glow lighter. Even a new 1.5v alkaline D cell is marginal, but they light pretty well with a gel cell or other 2v source lighting the plug.

If you're using a power panel they have to go over 4 amps to light.

PITA.

HTH

Bill.

PS: Power panel at 4 amps and the Sullivan 1/2A electric starter - VROOM! wr.
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Old 03-31-2003, 07:29 AM
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azenigma
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Default norvel setup/won't start

I think the instructions are starting to fall apart I have read them so many times!! It was actually a drill with a screw driver bit, so it was pretty fast! It was turning counter-clockwise, infact I had the prob unscrew once. I have tried 1 to 3 turn on the needle. I did put a few drops of fuel in the carb. As far as the gas tank goes, are you supposed to pop the line off the engine and let the fuel run to the end of the tube and then plug it back in? or should the engine be able to suck the fuel out on its own? Do they sell higer voltage glow starters? All that I saw at the hobby shop was the kwik starts.
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Old 03-31-2003, 07:49 AM
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William Robison
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Default norvel setup/won't start

azenigma:

With your finger over the intake (If you have small fingers) the engine will pull some fuel for choking, after it starts (if it starts - Haw) it will pull fuel on its own.

As I said, an alkaline D will work, and your LHS can get you a glow clip device that can be used with a D cell in the body, OFNA #10219 for example.

My preference is a power panel, it will also be the power source for your Sullivan "Hornet" electric starter.

Bill.
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Old 03-31-2003, 08:06 AM
  #6  
Big Al-RCU
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Default norvel setup/won't start

azenigma

Have you unscrewed the glowhead and checked how hot it's getting? A dull orange won't work. Will just fire about every 100th flip or so. It must really light up to start. And what fuel are you using? My early big mig .061 instructions said to break it in with 10%-15% fuel. I had the same problem as you until I got some Norvel 25%. Also I seem to remember that sometime after I got mine, they changed the glowhead to one that would get hotter with less voltage. That's just my memory, but I do know that I replaced it and it finally turned into a real sweet engine.
al
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Old 03-31-2003, 02:32 PM
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Default norvel setup/won't start

As for the glow head not getting hot enough with a standard glow starter, NOT TRUE. I have more Norvels that I can count and they all start well with a standard glow starter.

Norvel changed all there glow heads to work with a standard 1.5v NiCd battery. They called the new glow head the XL, and that is the only type they sell for the last 2 or 3 years.

Check you glow driver battery (be sure it's FULLY charged), check the glow plug and be sure it's not burned up, and get some 25% nitro fuel!!! The difference between the 10-15% and the 25% in these little engines is night and day. I can snap my fingers on the spinner of my .061's and they start right up with a standard Ni Starter and 25% fuel. Trust me. 2fast4u.
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Old 03-31-2003, 02:53 PM
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William Robison
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Default AMD/AME/Norvel glow heads.

2Fast:

My AMD engines are seven years old. When I got them I also got a supply of glow heads. I was not aware there was a lower voltage version now on the market.

Mine wont even allow the use of a standard glow clip, I knew they had changed that part. I use an old Du-Bro connector, of the sort for use with the little Cox engines.

And I have only the two 0.061 engines, in my Tiggerkitty twin.

Bill.
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Old 03-31-2003, 03:17 PM
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2fast4u
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Default norvel setup/won't start

Sweet plane!!!! When you need a new style glow head, you will also have to replace the head (the part that holds the plug in). They changed it as well. They are called the XL and work great with the standard driver.

You need to brign that plane with you to SMALL Steps in Little Rock.!!!!!!!
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Old 03-31-2003, 04:09 PM
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William Robison
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Default Small Steps and small planes -

4F: (I mean 2F, sorry. Haw.)
Originally posted by 2fast4u
You need to brign that plane with you to SMALL Steps in Little Rock.!!!!!!!
Thanks for the kind words about the Tiggerkitty.

It was (scratch) built as an experiment in small twins.

As stated, the engines are AMD 0.061 - the obvious difference to the AME is the exhaust coming straight out the back, which allows the exhaust pipes to be extended to the rear of the nacelles.

The airplane also has fully sprung suspension. Attached pic shows right nacelle and strut. The blue hose near the center is the engine exhaust.

The vertical fin and rudder are about 150% scale, helps a LOT with engine out.

But it's still a twitchy &^$% to fly.

If you would like to see it at SMALL, PM or E-mail me, we might work something out.

And for SMALL I also have a "Littleist Stick" with a Cox 02 engine. Another twitchy little bear.

Bill.
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Old 03-31-2003, 04:11 PM
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Default norvel setup/won't start

go to 25% nitro, and it'll start-


be sure you are running your pressure line when you are trying to start the motor!


NORVEL'S FOR LIFE !!!!!





L.R.
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Old 03-31-2003, 07:11 PM
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azenigma
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Default 25%

I am using Byron 25% 1/2a fuel. I will top off the glow starter and try it again. I tried putting my finger on the intake but it did not suck enough to pull the gass up the fuel line. Is this normal?
Duane
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Old 03-31-2003, 08:13 PM
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Default norvel setup/won't start

I have that engine and from what I remember that thing was a $#*@^ to get running at first !! I flipped that thing over so many times at first trying to get it to fire up that I thought something was wrong with it, at the end I said screw it and about drop kicked the thing in the trash... Then I said one more time... I primed the carb, hooked up the glow driver then got out the electric starter and bam! it was alive!! now after break in it starts every time with no problems! Jeff.
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Old 03-31-2003, 08:17 PM
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fastlash
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Default start

Looks like the early AAN motor with the air bleed idle screw,on the carb, very cool, besure the air bleed screw is open 3-4 turns pull the head check for a very bright glow, not just orange, open the main 2 1/2-3 turns open thottle up full put finger over carb to prime ( no glow clip on it) if it doesn't draw fuel check your tank, I can't tell from the photo but I think this eng. has the old head on it and you will need more voltage to the plug, it you can post a closer pic of just the eng. it would help
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Old 03-31-2003, 09:14 PM
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azenigma
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Default norvel setup/won't start

what is a AAN motor? The manual says that it is the new glowplug.
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Old 03-31-2003, 11:47 PM
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Default AAN

Aluminum piston --Aluminum clyd. that is nickel plated, revlites have a black clyd. and the aan have a silver Alum. finish
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Old 04-01-2003, 12:32 AM
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Default worked great for me

the best way i ever got my little norvel to start was this:

i took the muffler off and squirted about 3 or 4 drops of fuel in the motor hole (not enough to cause it to lock up) and then leave the muffler off while you try it a few times. it should jump to start right up.....after it does that a few times put the muffler and pressure lines back on and start it.

that was the only way i could get mine to start in the beginning and i followed the directions to a T. now it runs great and starts very easily.
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Old 04-01-2003, 02:58 AM
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Default norvel setup/won't start

There's your problem.........."a regular glow igniter will not fit"!!!!!

This means you have the origional plug, which is far too cold. The new "Freedom XL" plug is hotter and will accept a Dubro type igniter. You can also use a Cox TD plug #1702. A RJL plug adapter and an OS or K&B works great.
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Old 04-01-2003, 02:06 PM
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Default Norvel starting

I had the same problem --turned out that the plug body had a coating on it & the plug wasn't getting hot enough--no ground.
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Old 04-02-2003, 04:11 AM
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Default Re: Small Steps and small planes -

As stated, the engines are AMD 0.061 - the obvious difference to the AME is the exhaust coming straight out the back, which allows the exhaust pipes to be extended to the rear of the nacelles.

Bill,

AMD? with rear exhaust?? Are these a Norvel product? Where did you get them? Are they still available? Can you show a pic of the engine on its own?
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Old 04-02-2003, 04:48 AM
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Default Re: Re: Small Steps and small planes -

Prisoner number 1705493:
Originally posted by 1705493
As stated, the engines are AMD 0.061 - the obvious difference to the AME is the exhaust coming straight out the back, which allows the exhaust pipes to be extended to the rear of the nacelles.
Bill,
These engines are just about the same as imported by Norvel. With the mufler off, they almost cannot be told from the "Norvel" engine. But where the Norvel muffler has the stack comong off at an angle to the side, the AMD version has the stack straight out the back of the muffler.

If you (or a friend) fire up your lathe, a small chunk of aluminum could be turned to make a replacement end bell for the Norvel muffler with the straight outlet.

Since they all come from the same factory, it's also possible Norvel could get the straight pipe for you.

And as I remember, the first Norvel imports had the straight pipe also.

And even the Norvel AME version engines aren't as cranky as these. I've been tempted many times to replace them with a more "User friendly" pair. But I'd keep the stock "Russian" mufflers for the replacement engines.

And no, I don't have any pics showing the engines without the cowlings. All I've posted have been digitized from film, so I can't whack a picture up quickly, either. I've attached the closest I have, but you can't see much.

If there are still questions, feel free to ask.

Bill.
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Old 04-02-2003, 05:09 AM
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Default norvel setup/won't start

Sorry Bill,

I misunderstood. It's the muffler that has a straight back exhaust. I thought you meant that the engine itself had a straight back exhaust. I do have a lathe and I've made headers that converted the engine to straight back exhaust for use with a tuned pipe but it's a lot of work. Gettin' lazy I guess.

I'm impressed that you've made a twin with cranky engines,,, and survived. I've got a passion for good throttling, having done two articles for Flying Models on that subject. I've got Norvels idling at 4K up to 19K on 6 X 3s with solid idle all day and virtually perfect transition.

Right now, I'm doing a twin with two VA .049 MK1s. One of these has a Cox reverse crank installed and the other has a stock Cox crank. The idea is that counter rotating props will mediate the dreaded one engine out syndrome.

And hey, don't tell my parole officer that I'm breaking curfew.

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Old 04-02-2003, 05:28 AM
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William Robison
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Default norvel setup/won't start

Andy:

Figured you had misunderstood about the exhausts.

And on the little twins I haven't really noticed one engine was worse than the other to lose - no "Critical" engine, as it were.

I have been quite fortunate with my twins, in almost eight years of flying them I have yet to do any damage to one in flight operations. Hanger rash, yes. But not even a hard landing, so far. It will happen, but hasn't yet.

And yes, idle at 4K to 4500 is the lowest I've been able to do also.

Have fun with your new one, with the VA engines are you thinking you'll be able to see it in flight? Out of sight right to out of sight left in 3.5 seconds? Rocket ship.

Bill.
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Old 04-02-2003, 05:37 AM
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Default norvel setup/won't start

On the older AME's the letters on the crankcase look like AMD, the "E" looks like a triangle!!! Although, I have never seen an AME with rear exhaust.
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Old 04-02-2003, 05:53 AM
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Default norvel setup/won't start

Goldie:
Originally posted by goldguy
On the older AME's the letters on the crankcase look like AMD, the "E" looks like a triangle!!! Although, I have never seen an AME with rear exhaust.
The Russian (Cyrillic) character Norvel translates as "E" is actually the "Delta," more correctly Norvel would also say "AMD."

Bill.
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