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Stealth Won't Fly! Crash Movie

Old 04-07-2003, 08:36 PM
  #1  
azenigma
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Default Stealth Won't Fly! Crash Movie

I can not get my stealth sport to fly. I am not sure where the problem is, maybe in the motor or how well I built the plane!! Can you guys take a look at these movies, and let me know if you have any ideas? It is running the norvell .061 R/C with a 6x3 APC prop (it says C-2 on the center). The engine throttle is on full blast.

http://members.cox.net/~duane/

Thanks,
Duane
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Old 04-07-2003, 10:46 PM
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Default Stealth Won't Fly! Crash Movie

Ouch! thats exactly what i dont want to do when i fly my plane!!was your radio on? did you balance it to the CG w/ empty tank?You either had the wings built wrong(warped Or not right height) ailerons trimmed wrong Or balanced wrong left and right. Or there was wind. check all those. Are you an expierenced flieR? if not get a expert to help! i am going to!! my plane is still not up, cant get motor runnin!!
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Old 04-07-2003, 10:55 PM
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Default Stealth Won't Fly! Crash Movie

It's hard to say for sure, but it looks like you need some up trim on the elevator and right thrust on the engine.

Get someone else to launch it for the first flight, that way you'll have yor hands on the stick the whole time.

When I launch I take three steps and throw just slightly nose high and get my hand back on the TX asap. Don't chuck too hard or the engine may quit.

Here's a link to me hand launching an out of trim model. The little hop is optional.
http://donatelli.net/skougar/skougar.mpg
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Old 04-07-2003, 11:16 PM
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Default Stealth Won't Fly! Crash Movie

what motor do you have on it?, My ss Is yellow too!!
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Old 04-07-2003, 11:20 PM
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Default Stealth Won't Fly! Crash Movie

god, im stupid just noticed it wasnt an ss!!
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Old 04-07-2003, 11:24 PM
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Default Stealth Won't Fly! Crash Movie

The plane is a SIG Kougar scaled down to a 28" span. Approx 1/2 the original.

The engine is a Norvel AME .061 with an APC 5.7X3 prop.

Here's more info on it:
http://donatelli.net/default.asp?pla...t=12a&vid=true
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Old 04-08-2003, 01:10 AM
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Default Stealth Won't Fly! Crash Movie

The second crash when the engine quits could just be anything but I'd say the first needs some up trim.

You're also getting way too involved with the running before the launch. I can't imagine a 1/2A that needs more than a gentle push and no steps at all. You may even be getting a bad toss from being out of balance due to the running.

Try a quick but gentle push (not a flick or the engine WILL flame out) at about a 10 degree upward angle. The slight up angle will give you a moment to recover if the trims are way out of line.
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Old 04-08-2003, 01:42 AM
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Default fly

Thanks for the tips. I will give those a try and see what happens. As far as giving the motor some right thrust about how much do you mean? I have posted a close up of the plane for reference. Also I guess by right that you mean move the enging to my left if I am loking at it from the front.
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Old 04-08-2003, 01:46 AM
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Old 04-08-2003, 01:54 AM
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Default Stealth Won't Fly! Crash Movie

By right thrust I mean the engine is angled a degree or 2 to the right to counteract the "P" factor wanting to pull left. I only suggest this because in the video with power on the plane goes left slightly. It would be easier to tell if right thrust is needed if you could get it airborne.

You can easily add right thrust by putting a washer behind the left side of the engine mount.
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Old 04-08-2003, 03:27 AM
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Default Stealth Won't Fly! Crash Movie

How come I can`t see your video
pretty please
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Old 04-08-2003, 02:47 PM
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Default Stealth Won't Fly! Crash Movie

Looks nose heavy, not enough wing incidence, too much down elevator, too much downthrust. That about covers everything. From the looks of the video, any one or a combination of all those factors appears to be the problem.

Your Norvel with the APC 6 X 3 ought to give you 18 to 19K. Can you give numbers on the engine?

Also what's the flying weight and wing area? In addition to the preceding, a high wing loading doesn't help.

Re the engine dying. Do you have a conventional clunk tank set up? What size is the tank? If a clunk set up, if the clunk is too far back in the tank, tight against the back, hand launches can give you a surge of fuel that kills the engine. At least that's what I remember from my single channel days.
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Old 04-08-2003, 03:24 PM
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Default stealth

It is balancing on the spar, per the directions. With that in mind would it still be a good idea to move the weight back? To change the wing incidence do I just need to put in washout at the wing tips, or is that something different?

I do not have a tach. so I am unable to produce any numbers on the engine.

The wing area is 252 sq in. I do not have a scale, but per the specs it should be ~18 - 22 oz. I would guess it is on the low end since I am using small servos and a lighter motor than the original cox that was on the specs.

The tank is a 1 oz. I do have a clunk setup. The reason it died in the video was that it was almost empty when I thru it , I guess I fiddled with it on the ground for to long!

Thanks for all the great advice!
Duane
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Old 04-08-2003, 04:23 PM
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Default Stealth Won't Fly! Crash Movie

If it balances OK and you don't have excessive downthrust, the only other thing would be wing incidence. Washout will actually give you less incidence but don't put in wash-in. That'll give you tip stalling. Next time, try adding in some elevator trim and run it at half throttle. If it flys, say at eye level, feed in some throttle and milk the elevator up. The idea is to get some altitude so that you can sort out the trim. From here, it looks like inadequate incidence. Do you know how to check the plane's actual incidence with the plans?

Mavericman,

What motor are you running? maybe I can help.
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Old 04-08-2003, 05:13 PM
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Default Stealth Won't Fly! Crash Movie

Duane,

Looking at the video in slo-mo, it almost looks like you simply didn't have enough airspeed on your launch. A small, 1/2A ought to launch rather easily UNLESS you're wing loading is too high for the power you have. See Bipeflyers video. His planes are uncommonly light for 1/2A. A heavy (relatively) airplane needs to fly fast just to stay in the air. That means it needs LOTS of power. Based on the specs you've given, the Norvel ought to step right up and do the job. Unless your weight is higher than you realize or the engine isn't putting out.

What fuel, nitro content are you using? Find someone to tach the engine.
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Old 04-08-2003, 06:39 PM
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Default Stealth Won't Fly! Crash Movie

I am not sure how to check the incidence. Running 25% byron 1/2a fuel. I will see if I can find someone at the LHS to tach the engine.

Thanks,
Duane
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Old 04-08-2003, 10:44 PM
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Default Stealth Won't Fly! Crash Movie

Originally posted by 1705493
If it balances OK and you don't have excessive downthrust, the only other thing would be wing incidence. Washout will actually give you less incidence but don't put in wash-in. That'll give you tip stalling. Next time, try adding in some elevator trim and run it at half throttle. If it flys, say at eye level, feed in some throttle and milk the elevator up. The idea is to get some altitude so that you can sort out the trim. From here, it looks like inadequate incidence. Do you know how to check the plane's actual incidence with the plans?

Mavericman,

What motor are you running? maybe I can help.

I am running a cox black widow, I think Im haveng reed valve problems
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Old 04-09-2003, 12:48 AM
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Default Stealth Won't Fly! Crash Movie

Duane,

Take your plans and a straight edge and draw a pencil line using the bottom of the stab as a guide and draw a line all the way to under the wing. Then, measure the distance to this line at the leading edge and at the trailing edge. Write the figures down on your plan.

Next, take your plane and set it on a large table. Block it up with books mags, whatever, so that the stab is parallel to the table. Then measure the leading and trailing edge distances to the table. See how those figures compare to the plan.

The other thing is that, on the video, as your SS hit the ground, a bit of dust was raised. If you simply brush off the plane and try again, without completely disassembling the engine and cleaning it, there's the danger that the engine swallowed some dirt. Norvels and other ABC type engines depend on a very close fit of piston and cylinder for good compression seal. A baffed engine may start and seem to run well but power might be way down.

Mavericman,

Cox, 'specially reeds not my forte. Dickeybird might be able to help.
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Old 04-13-2003, 09:06 AM
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Default Stealth Won't Fly! Crash Movie

I too watched the plane crash video and I have just a few comments. First get someone else to toss it for you.
I don't think you even had a chance to use the transmitter. Make sure it is someone who has done it before, it is really easy to toss it with a sideways spin.

Sometimes it helps to toss it with out the engine running down a grassy slope to see if it is within trims. Just pull the prop off and cover the engine.

Small planes will sometimes do things so fast that you can't tell just what went wrong, and the glide test will slow the whole show down a little.

I don't think anything is wrong with the plane that trimming wouldn't take care of, it looks like it is diving and rolling left. I think that if you get it into the air and get a little hight you will be able to get it trimmed and will find out that it there is nothing really wrong with it.

I have had the same trouble with reed engines dieing when tossed, I don't have an answer. I think that a easier toss might be worth trying and for that you might need a slope of some kind.
Good luck and keep us posted
Marshall
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Old 04-13-2003, 11:29 PM
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Default Stealth Won't Fly! Crash Movie

It flew!!!! I put a few washers on the motor mount to give it a little less down and also a little more right. I also put some up trim on the elevator. This thing is so damn fast!!!! I can not believe the loops and rolls this thing can do. I could barley keep up with it. I ended up losing orientation and had a pretty bad crash, but it was still in one piece, only a broken prop!! I was very surprised when I walked over and found my plane in one piece

I have since put bright yellow stickers on the bottom of the wing. This should help a lot.

Thanks!
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Old 04-13-2003, 11:54 PM
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Default Stealth Won't Fly! Crash Movie

Great!!

Successes is a great feeling even if it is sometimes fleeting. It is hard to mess up with the plane you have and I just knew you would make it happen!!

What did you do about the engine? Is it still a hit and miss adventure or did you make a discovery?
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Old 04-13-2003, 11:59 PM
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Default Stealth Won't Fly! Crash Movie

The reason the engine died in the video was due to the tank being located to far below the intake. I put a few pieces of wood to elevate it and now it runs!. The only problem I have now it that the motor will not run with the muffler installed. But no big deal it still works fine without it.
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Old 04-14-2003, 12:01 AM
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Default Stealth Won't Fly! Crash Movie

I had just about the same problems with my little plane and there was a flood of advice. The problem is that the darn thing is very quick and unforgiving. I was hopping that you were up against the same gremlins. Took three planes to make the magic happen for me but here is the last design, and it is a really great feeling to see it fly.
Marshall
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Old 04-14-2003, 12:45 AM
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Default Stealth Won't Fly! Crash Movie

YEA!!!! Good job! I cant wait till mine is up in the sky!!
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